US airstrikes under Trump killing more civilians in Syria and Iraq than anytime before

US airstrikes under Trump killing more civilians in Syria and Iraq than anytime before
US airstrikes under Trump killing more civilians in Syria and Iraq than anytime before

And when their family members pick up arms against us, the right will claim that "they hate us for our freedom"

The group said that 268 strikes were carried out on Iraq and 434 were carried out on Syria within the month of March alone, killing at least 1,782 civilians and as many as 3,471.

So happy Trump is golfing and generals are running the show... Must be the time of their lifes. They get to try out all of the toys. They even got to finally use the MOAB.

Dear fucking God I can't believe more people commit terror attacks in the west given how we slaughter so many of them per month, talk about terrorism, a never ending stream of robots from the sky blowing up you country.

If there is one thing the US can do to create more "terrorists," it's killing innocent civilians and their loved ones.

Just imagine if a foreign nation sent drones into the US and killed your dad, mom, son, or daughter. I'm pretty sure we'd all take up arms in anger and anguish.

That's what happens when you ramp up drone strikes 432% when they were already killing the wrong person 90% of the time.

The beautiful victories of The War On The War On Terror

Obama implemented policies designed to ensure that air strikes killed as few civilians as possible. Trump rolled those back shortly after taking office. Coincidentally, civilian casualties skyrocketed. He's not pulling the trigger, but the authorized the guys pulling the trigger to take riskier shots. To use your words, he lowered their burden of due diligence. And more civilians are dying because of it.

I've never understood why pro-life advocates aren't the most anti-war group in America. Their whole argument is about giving the unborn a chance while simultaneously voting/approving most, if not all, military strikes that undoubtedly have killed innocent women and children.

I've asked this question several times only to be answered with their own questions of my supposed patriotism.

Because they are not pro life. They are pro birth.

Most don't give a single fuck about the baby once it's born. They will say the mother either has to sacrifice and give a good life to the child, even if she can't for whatever reason. Or she should give the child up for adoption, while at the same time cutting funds for those services that will help those kids.

Player One is that guy with the hammer and the whole world is a giant nail. He's a guy who spent the majority of his adult life and possibly most of his childhood within the very narrow culture of the military.

Civilian oversight is a thing for a reason.

Baby-killer trump.

Well, they are kinda right, they hate our freedom to bomb them all to death. I would hate that right too

It's not about the baby at all. It's about having control over females' genitals. It's all about control over women. Period.

If you tell the military to nuke an entire city, they ask how big a fireball do you want?

So there is room for systemic change there, sure.

But the key is to not ask for the big fireball.

Interestingly Obama isn't president anymore. Strange news I know

The next Bin Laden is the child that watches this today.

Trump ran on a platform of killing the family members of "terrorists" for a reason. He'll kill the terrorists before they become terrorists.

Sure glad we didn't elect that warmonger Hillary! /s

Well, to be fair, the number of strikes actually was down from february. This is about 54 more airstrikes in March than in the average month of last year, and 156 less than the most per month last year, which was 858 in July, according to Airwars.

There is significant debate concerning why civilians are at far greater risk on the battlefield. The Pentagon has denied that its rules of engagement have changed under Donald Trump’s presidency, which for the moment appears to be the case. As previously reported by Airwars’ Samuel Oakford, Iraqi officials have said that it is now easier to call in US and Coalition airstrikes – though this change reportedly dates back to December 2016.

Don't get me wrong, this is horrible. I just don't think it's smart to pretend it's all Trump's fault.

They weren't killing the wrong person 90% of the time. 90% of the people killed were not named as targets, which is a very different thing.

Terrorist leaders tend to surround themselves with bodyguards and with other terrorists. So if a drone strike hits a terrorist base and kills its target, along with 4 bodyguards and 5 militants who were near the target, the folks at The Intercept will tell you that 90% of the people killed in that strike were civilians.

If you want to get your facts right, use a reliable source that's not hopelessly biased against the U.S.

"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families," Trump said.

Because we're not bombing white babies.

its a little ironic that we condem isis for killing civilians in Europe by hitting them with cars or opening fire on a nightclub. These are horrendous acts done by truly evil people, but no one bats an eye at the fact we have killed thousands and thousands of civilians, including children and woman, in our war against these terrorists. An eye for an eye I suppose. It's this never ending cycle of innocent people dying and we are so far removed from all of it and so densensitized that it doesn't even phase us, it's just a headline we read. On one side all the bombing and killing of civilians is breeding more terrorists and giving credence to ideologies like ISIS and Al-Queda. On the other side ISIS's slaughter of innocent people, and terrorist attacks across the globe is inflaming anti-immigration and muslim sentiment. It's a fucked up circle of events that seem to have an infinite timeline. We need to provide education and infrastructure to these devastated parts of the Middle East, we need to show more of the good sides of America rather than just bombs, and selling guns to the government. We need to stop making people hate us in a region susceptible to radicalization.

But look at north korea!! They almost had a successful launch.

You are either suffering from confirmation bias or is being dishonest. "Obama bombed hospital" was a hot topic all over reddit. Plus the debates about the morality regarding drone and other type of strikes has been going on for decades, under presidents from both parties. The only one who is making this humanitarian issue into a political issue is you.

He's not there yet....but we aren't at 100 days yet, so there's time

No. It was not OK then and it's not OK now. It's news worthy here because the situation is getting worse under trump, not better.

Is he doing anything to stop it? Has he addressed the issue publicly saying this is wrong? If the answer is no, it is his fault now because he is the head of military.

What does Obama have anything to do with what I said? He is not the president​ anymore, Trump is. I also didnt like the fact that we have civilian casualties during Obamas term as well.

He called it out. He said he was gonna bomb whole families . Still got voted in. whats that say about your typical american?

You should check out /sub/conservative acting like every casualty is a terrorist (I guess in their eyes all Muslims are) and cheerleading with things like 'die vermin'. Bunch of sofa warrior cowards.

so now it's actions and words

Then this isn't just a trump issue, but also about our military's wanton bloodlust.

Don't the also automatically declare all men and boys over a certain age to be enemy combatants so the civilian death numbers aren't as bad?

Well, to be fair, the number of strikes actually was down from february. This is about 54 more airstrikes in March than in the average month of last year, and 156 less than the most per month last year, which was 858 in July, according to Airwars.

Post that source?

Don't get me wrong, this is horrible. I just don't think it's smart to pretend it's all Trump's fault.

The number of sorties has greatly increased under Trump from everything I'm seeing. Trump gets in office and attacks increase but it's not his fault?

All told, Trump has ordered 75 drone strikes or raids in non-battlefield settings during his first 74 days in office, according to Micah Zenko, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

By Zenko's tally, Obama signed off on 542 such strikes during the eight years - or 2,920 days - he spent in office.

Obama's total works out to about one strike every 5.4 days, the first two strikes coming on January 23, 2009, in Waziristan, Pakistan, and thought to have killed as many as 20 civilians.

In comparison, since Trump took office, he has overseen about one strike a day on average.

We know he's relaxed the rules and made it more likely civilians will be hit

President Trump has relaxed some of the rules for preventing civilian casualties when the American military carries out counterterrorism strikes in Somalia, laying the groundwork for an escalating campaign against Islamist militants in the Horn of Africa.

The decision, according to officials familiar with internal deliberations, gives commanders at the United States Africa Command greater latitude to carry out offensive airstrikes and raids by ground troops against militants with the Qaeda-linked Islamist group Shabab. That sets the stage for an intensified pace of combat there, while increasing the risk that American forces could kill civilians.

Mr. Trump signed a directive on Wednesday declaring parts of Somalia an “area of active hostilities,” where war-zone targeting rules will apply for at least 180 days, the officials said.

The New York Times reported the Pentagon’s request for the expanded targeting authority on March 12, and Gen. Thomas D. Waldhauser, the top officer at Africa Command, publicly acknowledged that he was seeking it at a news conference last Friday.

redditor for 2 hours ....

That comment history.

After you get upset here you go and vent at t_d.


What's worse to think about is this is not the first or even second generation to live without fathers into adult hood. No wonder so many turn into religious zealots.

Does anybody know where they are pulling up this 1782 minimum deaths number? The source (airwars) lists the March maximum as 1755, but this is the sum of all Fair, Weak and Contested claims, with none yet confirmed (I am guessing it takes some time for confirmations?).

No, Captain Whatabout, it was not.

Collateral casualties are inevitable...but they numbers we've been seeing for these 'precision' strikes have been unacceptable for a long fucking time.

Of course, now that Trump is president the buck (in theory) stops with him. He could reign this shit in but refuses to.

The presidents job as commander in chief is partly to hold the military in check. We will never know how many operations and strikes obama vetoed when the military proposed them. Trump is happy to let them do whatever they want and is just acting as a rubber stamp. If the generals had their way we would be fighting multiple wars at all times. It's harder to get more stars in peace time than it is in war time

If you're ok with Trump bombing civilians, then you must have been fine with Obama doing it too. Is that how this works?

I have a bridge to sell you do you want it?

Dropping a large bomb != progress. trump has shown that he has no policy experience and he is unwilling to learn. So I fear that we will actually see ISIS growing stronger because of incorrect stragety in the middle east in future.

I wouldn't say Obama did a great job, he had many faults. The problem is Trump is doing a drastically worse job, and causing the additional loss of thousands of lives in the process.

What progress are you talking about?

On a side note, why is it Trump's sole responsibility to minimize civilian casualty?

Well, when Trump said things like this:

"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families," Trump said

On the campaign trail, and shortly after his election, there is notable increase in civilian casualties, it's not unreasonable to conclude that the newly elected President is attempting to implement this campaign "promise".

Also, the President is the Commander-in-Chief of the Army. The buck stops with him.

What does that have to do with anything? Even if Obama did change the definition, that definition would still apply and we would still have higher civilian casualties. Not sure what point you are trying to make other than "something something Obama something something".

The drone program was one issue most liberals did not agree with Obama on. It also doesn't help that Trump has ramped up strikes over 400% from Obama's time while also expanding the strike zones to new areas.

Yup. It is a fear and envious reaction that there are women who have sex for pleasure and not procreation.

(shrug) If the Commander in Chief tells the military to make it a priority to avoid civilian casualties even if that means missing some chances to kill ISIS militants or leaders, they will do that.

If the Commander in Chief tells the military to kill as many "bad guys" as possible and to not worry so much about civilian casualties, they will do that instead.

Nothing to do with bloodlust. Just a question of orders and priorities.

Yes, the term "civilian" was redefined under the Obama Admin. Instead of having to establish a person was a terrorist, it's now assuming that most anyone in a target area is an enemy combatant until proven otherwise.

It essentially shifted the burden of proof and was one of my main grievances with the Admin.

Trump is a fucking war criminal.

So coalition drone strikes may have killed upwards of 3000 civilians in roughly a month? The death toll of 9/11 was 2996. This is appalling.

It's because he's made the process for calling in airstrikes dangerously easier.

A more detailed analysis

That wasn't why he was considered a lunatic.

He's only had a Reddit account for a year, so imma guess that he just doesn't know or is incentivized not to...

You can disagree with Obama's policies and still recognize that Trump is far worse in terms of civilian casualties.

Remember when hilary was the neocon? lol.

Trump said he was different, as it turns out, he was worse.

Here's the source you asked for:

Yes, he did loosen the rules by declaring parts of Somalia and active conflict zone but this thread is talking about Syria and Iraq.

[edit] I'm not ok with extrajudicial drone murders by anyone - it's Trump's fault they are continuing, there's no doubt about that, but it was Obama who laid the legal groundwork for it. Should this stop? Fuck yes; it's unconscionable. Does it matter that Obama laid the groundwork for this? I think so - the reason isn't to deflect blame from Trump, because he definitely deserves blame. The reason is so we all remember that this is a non-partisan horror and you can't just blame others; whatever side you voted, this is your fault. It's all of our responsibilities to fix it.

You're fucking evil. You nonchalantly support the deaths of innocent people and shrug it off as "progress".

You are the literal embodiment of pure evil.


There were plenty of articles criticizing obama. The problem With trump is that he is just randomly ordering strikes with no coherent strategy

He told us he would kill all of their families

It's sad that it's not surprising