TIL two time Medal of Honor recipient Major General Smedley Butler wrote: "I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

TIL two time Medal of Honor recipient Major General Smedley Butler wrote: "I spent most of my tim...

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time.

The lack of punishment concerning this plot is almost as amazing as the story itself.

Among those wealthy industrialists was Prescott Bush.

Interesting read that describes Prescott Bush's involvement with the financial architects of the Nazism, as per records and documents from the US National Archives.


Interesting thinking that the men that stormed the beaches of Normandy were facing an enemy partly supplied and funded by a company headed by a man who's son and grandson would later become president.

Kind of makes me a little sick to my stomach.


How many leaders and kings throughout history subjected their sons to the conflicts they pursued and how many of those sons survived and went on to commit atrocities. The apple never falls far from the tree. This family has a long history of horrible atrocities committed in their name. Sons cannot answer for the sins of their fathers, but that doesn't mean we just ignore the fact that this tainted dynasty has squatted on the fortune of this nation for almost a century leading to the deaths of millions world wide.

Yeah, Daddy bush fought in the war, I hold no ill feeling towards him for that... but I do think he led a sick twisted organization during one of its worst periods and raised a son that turned out to be a pretty fucking despicable human being.

I'm sick to death of seeing pro-Bush bullshit on reddit. It makes no fucking sense. Jr paints some pictures of men who's lives he's ruined and suddenly we are supposed to feel sorry for the abysmal cunt. Fuck him, fuck daddy and fuck grandaddy. Their family is a blight on this nation.

That's cos they succeeded, but not in the way that they innitialy planned it.

The just turned the politicians into their personal puppets by financing their campaigns, in one fell swoop the got themselves a puppet and a patsy, while they themselves became untouchable. That's why America has now become an oligarchy

"Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."


If any of you haven't already I would highly suggest reading or listening to the book "War is a Racket".


Really good read.

The sins of the father aren't the sins of the son.

Whats interesting about Al Capone was that the people generally liked him, until the Valentines day massacres. Like, he would go to baseball games and people would cheer at him. And then in court, he was brought down by... Tax evasion.

I am as far left as one can get, but I always hate when they lump H.W. in with the rest. I disagreed fundamentally with many of his policies, but he was and is a good man, and a credit to America. He handled the office, and his subsequent loss to Clinton, with class. He's been a net positive his entire life, and it hurts the credibility of liberals when they indiscriminately group together all republicans as "evil."

Edit: For all the people saying I'm not literally the most far left person in history, you are correct. I mean there has had to be at least, like probably 3 people or so that were further left. Sorry for the confusion, and lighten up.

EDET 2st: I foold u all I am literelly Hitlar. U hav found mah bunker. O noes. Dam u reddet, u hav foild mah propuhgannda.

Didn't stop the son from enjoying the spoils of the father's sins either.

And the craziest thing is the relatively paltry sums they donate. It amounts to minutes of revenue for some firms.

Woody Gutherie put it best.

Don't forget "America First", the isolationist movement also involved with Nazis, focused on keeping the US from supporting the Allies and getting involved in WW2.

"They say 'America First' , but what they mean is 'America Next'."

Well, you also have to consider WHICH fights he was engaged in. A lot of his service spanned the Boxer rebellion and Central America years.

Honestly, America DID outright muscle around other countries at the behest of business interests.

Hell, the Boxer rebellion was tied heavily to Chinese groups saying telling the US and European countries to stop pushing Opium in their country, and the Euro-US alliance saying "F you, we're making too much money off this"


Remember that's 1930's dollars. Worth about 3.2 million today.

Honestly, America DID DOES outright muscle around other countries at the behest of business interests.


Like getting shot down in the war that you assign the father some culpability for, and then hiding and evading the Japanese who literally ate other pilots alive who were shot down in the same engagement?

Oh, well I'm glad there's a reason these capitalists supported the Nazis. I was concerned they picked them at random.

If you haven't seen it, check out The Untold History of the United States, it's on netflix, there are a few interesting sections about Butler and it goes into more detail about the men he worked for.

That's why America has now become an oligarchy

That implies that it wasn't before. If anything big business had an even more overt control of the government in the time period from Reconstruction to the turn of the 20th century. The gilded age was notorious for corrupt politicians in the pockets of businessmen, and political machines run by robber barons.

Some whores are cheaper than others!

He got 11 years for not paying $215,000. Pretty steep punishment.

Should point out to people that this is 14 pages long, definitely worth a read.

Still seems pretty cheap considering what people get away with these days...

Also brought to the attention of Congress a planned coup to establish a fascist dictatorship, backed by J.P. Morgan. Didn't we bail those guys out a few years back?


Well............the grandson did start a war in Iraq just so he could give his friends multi billion dollar no-bid contracts to rebuild all the shit he blew up. And most of it never got built. But those checks still got cashed though. Sometimes that shit is in the genes.

Willard: I'm a soldier.

Kurtz: You're neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

This is why rich people have a Butler.

Well, there's a huge amount of question as to whether or not its even true:

No prosecutions or further investigations followed, and historians have questioned whether or not a coup was actually contemplated. Historians have not reported any independent evidence apart from Butler's report on what MacGuire told him. One of these, Hans Schmidt, says Maguire was an "inconsequential trickster". The news media dismissed the plot, with a New York Times editorial characterizing it as a "gigantic hoax"

From another article:

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. said, "Most people agreed with Mayor La Guardia of New York in dismissing it as a 'cocktail putsch'."[46] In Schlesinger's summation of the affair, "No doubt, MacGuire did have some wild scheme in mind, though the gap between contemplation and execution was considerable, and it can hardly be supposed that the Republic was in much danger."......MacGuire emerged from the HUAC hearings as an inconsequential trickster whose base dealings could not possibly be taken alone as verifying such a momentous undertaking.

Ouch, that hurts. Next you'll tell me that the salad I just finished eating isn't "literally the best thing in the world," as I asserted a few minutes ago. This revelation makes me think I don't even know what's real and what's not anymore.

No, haven't you heard? We're nostalgic about Bush again. His crimes never happened.

He was a torpedo bomber, not a fighter pilot. Served in the South Pacific Theatre.

Keep in mind it's not just the money they give to a politician, but also the money they can give to his opposition. That threat is just as if not more effective than a direct bribe.

Not much has changed. Defending America is now just a marketing term. The US military has not had to Defend America since WWII. Every engagement since has been to defend the Military Industrial Complex that profits from creating the weaponry = wars are now just all about greed.

The Japanese were pretty sadistic in their campaign to take over Asia. It wasn't just soldiers going rogue either. It was systematic degradation of anyone who wasn't Japanese. The war crimes of Japan are overshadowed by Nazi Germany's.

People (rightfully) lose their shit when an errant bomb hits civilians nowadays, forgetting that a couple of generations ago, entire cities were firebombed and ransacked with people systematically killed and raped leading to tens of millions of civilian deaths.

This generation is very cynical, but humans are doing better than the last century.

Well, they didn't teach that about him in boot camp at all...

It is now the CIA's main function to interfere in other countries at the behest of big business interests

According to his son, John Jay (President of Continental Congress and later first Chief Justice) liked to say that 'those who own the country ought to govern it.' I'd say it's a trend.

The controversy goes deeper.

In 1934, Butler testified before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities (the "McCormack-Dickstein Committee") on these claims.

Congressman Samuel Dickstein of the McCormack-Dickstein Committee was a Russian agent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Dickstein_(congressman)

Samuel Dickstein (February 5, 1885 – April 22, 1954) was a Democratic Congressional Representative from New York and a New York State Supreme Court Justice. He played a key role in establishing the committee that would become the House Committee on Un-American Activities, which he used to attack fascists, including Nazi sympathizers, and suspected communists. Authors Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev learned in 1999 that Soviet files indicate he was a paid agent of the NKVD.[1][2][3]

The Boston Globe stated: "Dickstein ran a lucrative trade in illegal visas for Soviet operatives before brashly offering to spy for the NKVD, the KGB's precursor, in return for cash."[2] Sam Roberts, in The Brother: The Untold Story of the Rosenberg Case, wrote that "Not even Julius Rosenberg knew that Samuel Dickstein had been on the KGB's payroll."[4] Kurt Stone wrote that Dickstein "was, for many years, a 'devoted and reliable' Soviet agent whom his handlers nicknamed 'Crook'".[5]

Okay, I know we're full pessimism mode about the US on reddit, but when he uses the term "outright" he means outright, not conspiracy theories on why the Iraq war happened. Those wars back then didn't even pretend to be something else, for the most part.

In fact, wasn't the oligarchy at the time able to deploy "Blackwater" style pseudo-police forces to brutalize, even murder undesirable people? What were they called... Wasn't "Pinkerton men" known to do that sort of thing? Break up unions, kill union leaders, kill indians interfering with westward developments, kill whoever the rich olicharchs commanded them to even though they were not police or army or anything controlled by the government

You're not as far left as people can get.

They wanted a unified Europe to stand as a bulwark against communism in Russia. That's it. It didn't matter which side of WWII "won" and unified Europe, all that mattered was a unified Europe (and making lots of profit off the war to unify Europe).

The 'no taxation without representation' was the public face of the American Revolution, but in reality it was funded and directed by wealthy land and ship owners who saw an ability to profit more outside of the Empire's economy than within it.

America was founded on business principles. It achieved more and rose above its initial self aggrandizement, if only for truly principled leadership of men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and (to a lesser extent) Alexander Hamilton.

The coup was a success :D

Edit: coup instead of coupe. I do prefer coupes over sedans.

Well, not ate them alive, no. But they did remove flesh from living PoWs, then cooked and ate the flesh afterwards. See this. Edit: And this and this. It was apparently part of some "group-bonding" ritual.

I recall an Australian war diary about how Aussie soldiers would kick Japanese PoWs out of airplanes and watch them fall to their deaths. The rationale is the same. If everyone around is performing this sort of unspeakable act, the culpability is shared and everyone is "in it together".

The grand daddy was with the Nazis, the daddy enacted genocide on South America, and the son brought slaughter to the Middle East.

The sins might not fall to the son, but these apples are forming an orchard.

He was the head of the CIA and subsequently the vice president of the nation when the president was shot by his family friend. His son then became a president widely viewed as an ineffective puppet of powerful behind the scene players. If you think he was a good man because he didn't act like a jackass in front of the camera you are narrow minded indeed.

Also that it's not always a bribe in the same way we think of it. They pick politicians like picking wine from a list: they find one they like, one who already thinks like they do, and then their money gets him in.

It's not as though they bribe someone to change their mind every time.

No we're nostolgic that he was the worst we could think of.

Some whore's mothers are cheaper than other whore's mothers.

Interesting considering his son George HW was an ace fighter pilot during WW2, and not for the Nazis either

Based on my research (which is by no means authoritative), I think there's good evidence that Bush and Harriman profited enormously from business with the Nazis, but I couldn't ever find much to link Prescott directly to The Business Plot. They destroyed a lot of paperwork, however, so that doesn't mean much.

EDIT: I'm trying to recall the numbers, so if I've got this wrong someone please correct me, but I seem to remember that after Prescott married his wife, who was the daughter of the president of A. Harriman & Co., they set up Union Banking Corporation. "The bank was set up by Harriman and Bush's father-in-law to provide a US bank for the Thyssens, Germany's most powerful industrial family." Prescott turned something like a $150 initial investment into (again something like) $1.5M in only a few years. Adjusted for inflation, this is roughly like turning a $2100 investment into $21M today. But of course the paper trail was erased, so no one can be sure. This is very much from memory, so I'll happily change my info if someone has better sources.

They're only president as scions of the same family pushing the same agenda.

They're a continuation of the same goals, it's intergenerational.

The sons are complicit in the sins of the father.

The quote would work well if you were judging a philanthropist doctor son by the father. The sons... took up the same mantel, their becoming president was the aim of the family. If you're going to quote something at least engage with the nuance it's not a blanket statement when the sons are actively participating in the same business of war profiteering.

Semper Fi, Smedley! Like Washington and Eisenhower who warned us we did not listen.

HW is no saint, he invaded Iraq entirely for economic interests, not a military one.

Not to mention director of cia in '70s and alleged role in Iran-contras in the '80s, safe to say he had plenty to do with cia endeavors in s.America in general.

I wish I could upvote this more. It's such a good book, only takes an hour to read and gets the point across masterfully.

Wesley Snipes got 3 years for "lesser" evasion.

I recognize it's unpopular, but this all-encompassing condemnation of the CIA and all the work they've done is incorrect. The CIA is composed of civil servants, many have died a thankless anonymous death in the service of our safety. Others have engaged in nefarious unethical activity. We can agree it's critical to recognize the bad, but it's shortsighted and silly to ignore all the good. Most agents most of the time act to keep us safe.

Espionage is as old as human nation states. It is is critical and necessary. Show some respect.

"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write 'fuck' on their airplanes... because it's obscene!"

The wiki leaves out the fact that all the Marine bases in Okinawa, Japan make up Camp Butler. Named in his honor.

George HW Bush was deeply involved in the October Surprise, in which Republicans went through back channels to trade arms to Iran in exchange for the new Iranian government not releasing American hostages to Carter. The hostages were released the moment Reagan finished his inaugural speech.

Bush also ran a cocaine and arms smuggling ring from the White house. When he was elected president, he pardoned his convicted coconspirators.

The evidence is circumstantial but points strongly to Bush being involved with the assassination of JFK. Bush was a lifelong CIA man.

This is a very short list of the shitty things GHW Bush did. He is not a good person.

I guess you dont know much about his CIA days.

The moral here is that most people, even though seen as mostly "good" or "evil" are a combination of many facets and decisions that can be viewed very differently depending on perspective.


Buckminster Fuller referred to it as "Capitalism's Invisible Army". Of course in the 1980s it was colloquially referred to as the "Cocaine Importing Agency".

For those wondering what he meant by his last sentence (and the lazy har), here's the continuation:

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.

Yes but he's not... uh... Italian.

I suggest you study some international relations because you may be missing something a 2 hour documentary couldn't impart on you.

I've got my sensors out, im scanning back n forth for sarcasm, I think I've got a reading.

Just be aware that it's an Oliver Stone production, so you'll be lucky to get an accurate portrayal of events.

What does it say about a population of people that most of them believe they are paying to bomb and destroy an entire geographic region for humanitarian reasons.

I'm fine, but that's pretty fucked up.

He realized he was a mere puppet of the so called Elite.

I can imagine the sadness he felt.

This is reddit. OUtside of /sub/askhistorians never trust any history written by these community college educated pop historians

If you have the opportunity, I'd suggest reading the congressional hearing transcript, which is available online. As far as Butler's accusations go, it's the money trail that convinced me he was telling the truth. (That, and my gut reaction from his writing that he was a good guy.)

While I'm a fan of conspiracy theories, I try to look at them as possibilities outside the mainstream narrative - but they have to have something resembling evidence to back them up beyond wild speculation. There's a ton of evidence that the people Butler was accusing were up to some incredibly fishy shit, not just in their fascist leanings (which would have been semi-fashionable in certain circles at the time since "fascism" didn't really become a bad word until post-WWII), but in their business dealings with the Nazis well into the war, and double sided profiteering regardless of who won.

EDIT: I doubt anyone cares, but I went through some of my old notes on the subject. (It's important here to understand that MacGuire was, as I recall, a day trader making something like $100 a week at the time.)

July 3 or 4, 1933: "Butler held a second meeting with MacGuire and Doyle. He stated that they offered to get hundreds of supporters at the American Legion convention to ask for a speech." Butler further testified that on this occasion MacGuire showed him a bank book, the pages of which were flipped, indicating deposits of approximately $42,000." "A short time after the second visit, MacGuire went to see Butler again, this time alone. After listening to another pitch for him to round up 500 veterans, Butler told MacGuire that he would not risk his personal prestige unless he was told who might be standing behind him. MacGuire stated that he had the backing of 'some of the most powerful men in America.' He claimed to have already a small war chest funded by nine men, [Who?] with the largest contribution being $9,000 and the smallest $2,500. However, he would name only three men, showing their checks to Butler: his boss, Murphy; another financier, Robert S. Clark, a member of Morgan's 'preferred-client list' and an heir to the Singer Sewing fortune; and John S. Mills, who was intermarried into the du Pont family. All three were members of the Committee for a Sound Dollar. MacGuire told Butler that an expense account would be opened in Chicago with the money from the 'nine men.'"

1933: The Business Plot or The Plot Against FDR or The White House Putsch was an alleged conspiracy brought to light by a retired General, involving moneyed interests who intended to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt during the early years of the Great Depression. The allegations of the plot came to light when Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler notified the McCormack-Dickstein Committee in 1933 and testified to the existence of the plot. The McCormack-Dickstein Committee was the first House Committee On Un-American Activities (HUAC).

July 14, 1933: Nazi Party declared Germany's only political party.

August 1, 1933: "MacGuire visited Butler alone. Butler stated that MacGuire told him Grayson Murphy underwrote the formation of the American Legion in New York and Butler told MacGuire that the American Legion was "nothing but a strike breaking outfit." Butler never saw Doyle again."

September 10, 1933: $2,200 deposited into the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 10, 1933: $20,000 withdrawn from the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 11, 1933: $15,000 deposited into the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 13, 1933: $10,000 deposited into the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 15, 1933: $1,125 withdrawn from the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 15, 1933: MacGuire could not explain why he gave a check for $20,000 to Albert G. Christmas on September 15 and received a check back from Christmas 3 days later for the same amount.

September 16, 1933: $6,000 withdrawn from the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co.

September 16, 1933: MacGuire admitted cashing a check on his special account for $6,000 on September 16, which was the day before he saw Butler in Newark, not forgetting the $10,000 that MacGuire had received currency from Christmas at the luncheon, which he said he placed in a safety deposit box

September 16-17, 1933: [Newark, NJ] The committee has learned that the reunion of the Twenty-ninth Division took place and mentions these dates at this point because they are important. (emphasis theirs) "Butler then testified that he saw MacGuire again and that MacGuire appeared in his hotel room in Newark during the reunion of the Twenty-ninth Division in September 1933 and while in Butler's room took a wallet from his pocket, threw a bunch of $1,000 bills on the bed and that when Butler asked him " How much money have you got there ", MacGuire is alleged to have replied "$18,000," and on further questioning is alleged to have told Butler that he got the money from contributions the night before and has not had an opportunity to deposit them and wanted to give them to Butler for his help."

September 18, 1933: $20,000 deposited into the account of Gerald C MacGuire at Manufacturers Trust Co. [This was the sum returned to him by Albert G Christmas, which MacGuire gave him on September 15, 1933.]

September 19, 1933: [NYC] Claude M. Adamson, connected with the Central Hanover Bank in its letter of credit department, testified and produced bank records showing that MacGuire had purchased with cash on September 19, 1933, a letter of credit in the sum of $2,300, and that he cashed $300 of it in New York immediately.

September 19-27, 1933: MacGuire then introduced statement of Central Hanover Bank showing that he had purchased letters of credit amounting to $30,300 between September 19-27, 1933. He further claimed that he converted all of these letters of credit into cash at the First National Bank of Chicago and that he put the money into a safe deposit box in Chicago and that after the convention was over, he brought all of the cash back to Mr. Christmas, less expenses, because he had not purchased any bonds. MacGuire could not explain why he had paid a premium of one-half of 1 percent, amounting to $150, on $30,300 worth of letters of credit only to cash them without having any purchases in mind and then bringing the currency back to New York. Later in the questioning MacGuire admitted that he received $10,000 in currency from Christmas, while MacGuire, Christmas, and Clark were having luncheon at the Bankers Club, which had nothing whatever to do with these other funds.

MacGuire stated under oath, that he took this $10,000 and placed it in his safety deposit box at the Seaman's Savings Bank; that it is no longer there; that he does not know when he took it out, nor does he remember what he did with it. MacGuire did not have any receipts for any of the sums of cash which he claims he repaid to Christmas as agent for Clark, in one case a sum of about $30,000. Note from the committee. Deposits in the Manufacturers Trust Co. special account which totaled $20,000 and the $10,000 which he admits he received in cash at the Bankers Club, are no part of the $31,000 which was used by the Committee on Sound Money.

He was a fucking spook. You have no idea the shit he's done or seen and kept quiet about. The CIA doesn't exactly have a stellar record.

Figurative speech always gets lost on the internet when it suits people's point of view.

Italians were considered non-white degenerate criminals back then.

It kind of blows my mind that millionaires risk ruin for ten grand or even just a few night of blow and hookers, until I remember they almost never get caught.

Read into it. There was no punishment because everyone was certain he made it up. He was heavily involved in Veterans' groups and he accused his ardent opponents of contacting him to overthrow the government he had served. If we believe his story, the fascists had infiltrated The American Legion only, and then asked the guy championing the VFW to lead them. Meanwhile they randomly bribed him and revealed their benefactors.

Well, he's not wrong.

It's not pessimism, it's the fucking truth. The US has consistently done illegal, shady, and absolutely fucked up shit at the behest of profit and imperialism. People that call that "pessimism" need to read a fucking book.

Just because you don't like facts does not mean that the dispersal of those facts is pessimistic.

It's like your friend's annoying aunt that you see on facebook that posts "good guy cop" videos when there's a new daily story about corruption throughout the police force. That's what you sound like, just slightly more eloquent.

War is a Racket - Smedly Butler

It's not long and everyone should read it.

Alexander Hamilton was easily as principled if not more principled than the others you named. He wrote half the federalist papers, didn't own slaves, and wrote essays against slavery. EDIT: He actually probably owned slaves, and apparently purchased them for other people a couple times. RIP my optimism.

And also the Director of the CIA. But don't worry. He said "that must have been some other George Bush"

If you get caught evading 3.2 million today, you might actually have to pay a part of it back. Poor rich people.

And he will likely die wealthier than most of the people in this thread.

Democracy is so nice, in fact, that when Vietnam wanted to democratically elect Ho Chi Minh (Communist), we cancelled the election and napalmed the country to shit. Talk to them about democracy and "human rights".

Brothel of underage kids? That's too serious of an accusation to believe without proof

Was going to skip unti you pointed this out. Thank you

though at that time there was some demarcation

do you actually know what you're talking about? what demarcation? Most of the laws and regulations that one would consider as 'demarcation' between big business and government actually came after 1933, while you're making it sound like time period before this was somehow more moderate or balanced when it came to corruption. That's absurd.

Things are definitely different now, though. We don't fight wars for resources, install puppet presidents, or subjugate distant populations. We aren't controlled by moneyed interests. We prevented all that from happening!

Behavior like this was old news in the 30s. Look into the Gilded Age, the 1880s and 1890s, and you'll find men like Jacob Astor were worth the equivilent of hundreds of billions of dollars in today's money and subject to almost no tax what so ever. Government and business collusion is nothing new or extraordinary in this, or any other, nation.

in one fell swoop the got themselves a puppet and a patsy

this hardly fits Roosevelt's relationship to big business post-1933.

Bush legitimately thought he could make Iraq a better place, that's pretty clear. Everything else is just gravy.

But by remaining neutral, Europe united not by a liberal democratic order with the US involved (as it eventually was) was just saying "nah, leave us out but handle the commies yourselves because it's cheaper for us, and also fuck the jews, slavs, the infirm, gays, gypsies and intellectuals anyways". So either tacitly backing the Nazis because it looks like they're winning and be cowardly and opportunistic, indifferent, or because you actually agree with them. That's like saying my neighbors house looks kind of shabby and instead of wishing they'd paint it praising the disturbed teenager lighting it on fire while they're on vacation. "At least he's doing something about that paint!"

I have no idea what kind of terrible things you've seen and done and kept quiet about. You must be a bad guy.

You sure don't beat around the bush do you?

Every war has been primarily motivated by profit: wild, historiographically irresponsible claim.

The U. S. Military has not had to defend since WWII: not really that far off

He went down for the only crime the Federal Government genuinely cared about.

Pol Pot thought he could make Iraq a better place?

Cant have kids smoking weed when they could go to their parents medicine cabinet and get hooked on their heroin pills.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/14/bill-clinton-ditched-secret-service-on-multiple-lo/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much... search for "lolita express"

More pharma now than tobacco I think. Tobacco is big money, pharma is astronomical money.

Unless you are saying he directly broke the law, I don't see how him not doing everything perfectly makes him a bad guy. Dear lord, I'm defending a Bush. Wtf is this, bizarro world?

The USA's reaction to communism has never been to implement actual "democracy"

Yeah it can happen that way to. In your case the oil industry has a lot more resources than the solar industry which is part of the reason why more effort hasn't been put into supporting solar energy. Another example is how the Tobacco industry lobbies against weed legalization.

HW was such a badass in his youth.

It's particularly weird in this case since the 1920s is generally remembered as a uniquely corrupt time period in American politics, with the teapot dome scandal and whatnot

In the context of the "banana republic" politics that was going on, it's not hard to believe -- thought that in itself doesn't make it true.

I think it depends where you draw the line between capitalism and government. Any capitalist government can be considered an oligarchy when there is no separation between business and state. America attempts to control how much business influences government while also supporting business, and in reality money talks but is never 100% the decider in all cases. However if you subscribe to a "1 drop" philosophy, then any business involvement at all would be considered oligarchy. I personally hesitate to say it is oligarchy because it is not 100% oligarchical, I guess you could say I subscribe to the "all or none" philosophy but I agree with the notion that a "soft oligarchy" or partial oligarchy is currently in place. While I agree it needs to be fixed, the fact that violence can be replaced with money is an appealing alternative to bloodshed.


What about all of those elected socialist regimes the U.S topple?


The ties are MUCH stronger with the Clintons than Trump.

People are totally ignorant about how long corruption has been around.

Step 1: Kill 2/3 of Cambodia's population

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Make Iraq Great Again

Yeah, but how much of what Perkins claims can be independently verified?

Every post-WWII US President has brought war and slaughter to the world. Chomsky covered it in an interview, with the transcription here.

I guess you're going to puke when you find out the founding fathers owned slaves.


Haha. I'm sure it was a casual, totally non starter conversation. Nothing more than several really powerful people sitting down and carrying out their right to free speech. Heck, it shouldn't be called a "plot" is was much more "idle chatter"

- Guy who believes the wealthy don't actively seek to use the government as a tool for their benefit

We have a capitalist government friend. It may not be a pure laissez-faire utopian capitalist state, but it is a capitalist state nonetheless.

And it seems to be jumping off all over the world.