“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”- Marcus Aurelius
TIL I am an apatheist.
Thank you kind stranger!
/sub/apatheism As you'll find out in a second, the only posts are "Hey I'm glad I found this place!" and a whole lot of nothing else. There's simply nothing for us to discuss. Maybe God exists? Maybe he doesn't. W/e. It's the perfect sub; it sticks to its guns marvelously.
Someone gave me this watch... they said I could talk to God with it but, um, I don't have anything to say.
Edit: This is paraphrased from season 6 episode 6 of the Venture Bros. - It Happening One Night, where Dr. Venture is arched by the Doom Factory, a group of post-modern super villains. The one who says it is Wes Warhammer, an Andy Warhol-esque character and the leader of the Doom Factory.
Edit 2: The original quote is indeed from Andy Warhol.
Good luck explaining that classification to everyone without taking off your fedora every time someone asks you your beliefs.
I've always found the Roman's relationship with religion to be fascinating.
I’ve always been an agnostic under the impression this is the same definition.
Edit. Okay, just getting the distinction. I guess I see an apatheist thinking that the existence of a god doesn’t change anything. This is strange to me because it seems to change a lot. I guess I’m firmly agnostic which means there is no way of proving or disproving the existence of god scientifically so what’s the point of discussing it.
That's his catch phrase just before deploying his nuclear weapons
"Do you think there's a God?"
Yeah I think I’m somewhere around here or maybe Christian Atheism who basically are atheist that think “that Jesus guy had some good ideas about helping your neighbor and the poor”
Not that guy, but basically the romans didn't believe that other peoples gods took away from their gods. So like they believed that all gods exist but they just chose to worship these ones.
Nice to know it exists, but I guess I don’t really care either way.
Wasn't it Gandhi that said I like your Christ, not your Christians
"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." -- C. S. Lewis
Hers a quote by /u/accidentalhippie that answers this question:
Well, from what I understand agnostic can be whittled down to "It's impossible to say if God exists or not". Where as I don't care if he exists. I don't care if you believe or don't believe. If God exists my life wouldn't be any different than it would be if he doesn't exist.
Andy Warhol to Jim Morrison:
“Somebody gave me this telephone... I think it was Edie... yeah it was Edie... and she said I could talk to God with it, but uh... I don't have anything to say... so here... this is for you... now you can talk to God.”
The Doors, the movie
The religion of Meh
Edit: Thank You for the bling bling!
The benefit of a polydeistic religion. Modern monotheistic religions don't have room for that kind of tolerance.
Edit:toleration->tolerance. English is hard.
Lots of opinions. This was an offhand comment. Don't read too much into it. I know humans kill each other no matter which religion.
"Do you think there is a God?"
I vote to rename this Fuckitism
I’m intrigued, go on
This guy civs
So could one be an agnostic apatheist then? It's impossible to prove and I don't care if he does because it doesn't change anything.
Marcus Aurelius never said that.
No printed sources exist for this prior to 2009, and this seems to have been an attribution which arose on the internet, as indicated by web searches and rationales provided at....
Though they do believe this made up quote might be a paraphrase of this actual documented quote from Aurelius in Meditations Book II:
Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence? But Gods there are, undoubtedly, and they regard human affairs; and have put it wholly in our power, that we should not fall into what is truly evil.
Which has a different meaning entirely.
Their level of tolerance is triggering me, I simply won't have it.
I dunno, is saying "I don't feel like a higher power plays a role in my life so it's not very important to me" really that douchey?
You guys leave terrible comments. Except for /u/gogetenks123 who is handsome, brave, and a very good boy
I could claim that most Christians aren't even Christian, to be honest.
I'm intolerant of intolerance...and the Dutch.
I'M A BASEBALL BAT!
All I know is that my gut says "maybe".
You can even be an agnostic Christian (or any religion). Agnostic just means you believe that the existence of God can't be proven (or disproven). Some might even claim that all Christians really are agnostic since the core of Christianity is faith not provability.
Most polytheists believed something like this. The idea of other people's religions being outright fictional didn't occur to most early people, since to them gods were something everyone intuitively was aware of, so they had no reason to think strangers were "wrong." So strangers either had the same gods, different gods, or evil gods.
I agree it does, but C.S. Lewis converted to Christianity by trying to philosophically prove it couldn't be real. I'm guessing this may have been one of his lines of reasoning for his faith.
How does that not apply to any religion, though?
FTFY. Agnostics are "idk", aphatheists are "idc".
I really like the current name, because both Apathy and Theism are fully pronounced.
I typically label myself an Agnostic Apathetic. I don't know, and don't care.
If I see evidence that your faith actually matters, I would then know, and may care, but until then, I don't.
I'm a pathetic agnostic.
Goes a long way toward explaining the Commandment ("thou shalt have no other gods before me") and the whole jealous god thing.
Anyone can claim anything
“I’m not saying I’m not grateful for you creating everything, but you could’ve fuckin done it better”
Warhol played by Crispin Glover. Just the right amount of weird for casting, quite a bit.
Unless he's the kind of God that demands you to worship him and follow his rules explicitly or you'll be punished for all eternity. In that scenario, general apathy to the idea of God would cause a different effect after death than a life of constant attention and worship. Not saying this is what I believe but it seems to be the idea that most religions are based around.
Can't stop saying your user name out loud around my house lol. My wife is starting to get annoyed. ;)
A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good.
Dude I don't give a shit.
if that means eternal damnation so be it
Yeah I wouldn't be so nonchalant about living in hell for eternity
We all masturbate an unknown but finite number of times.
Is there a Mehnorah?
I'm just pathetic
The old testament paints a concerted effort to move from a polytheistic to a monolatristic religion (recognition that there are other gods, but worship only one). Monotheism (there is only one god) didn't really become a thing for Judaism until after the return from Babylon.
Moses, if he existed, most likely practiced monolatry.
Great quote, I have never heard it before. My personal view falls along that line. I am an honest and ethical person, if there is a God, I feel that should be enough to enter heaven. If it isn't, I don't want to be part of it anyway.
As an atheist, if a god exists that would be a pretty fucking huge deal.
Fuckin Gandhi... I nuke him out of spite now.
And if it's the kind of god that demands worship it still doesn't matter. I try to be a kind, positive person in general; if that means eternal damnation then so be it. I'd rather disappoint an angry god then live as a pious zealot who proclaims to be pure. Actions and the intent behind them are what's important.
That's a weird reason to convert to a belief. You can't prove that there aren't an alien species that will obliterate the world if you masturbate an unknown but finite number of times.
I mean, I guess that'd technically probably apply to most atheists (and people in general), but is that actually a useful classification? You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks murder and stealing and generally being an asshat are good things. Take away the magic stuff from Christianity, and none of the remaining concepts on morality are particularly novel or insightful.
I'm not really a Christian but this statement doesn't ring true. For his time, preaching forgiveness as opposed to righteous punishment was relatively novel, and Jesus also preached about helping the poor and the less fortunate. These may not seem like novel ideas today, but at the time it was being preached it was well needed and helped spawn a movement towards more compassion amongst the Abrahamic Religions. Seems like an alright dude by me.
Said the man who burned his innocent daughter at the stake in an insane religious ritual to make him King.
This was basically the truth of all "religions" at that time. You believed in your gods, you did what your gods wanted of you, and everyone else's gods were independent of your gods.
It was actually a lot closer to a form of government than a religion as we know it today. This is where "when in Rome, do as the Roman's do" comes from. If you were visiting Rome, you were expected to worship Roman gods rather than the gods of your home, just as you are expected to follow English laws while visiting England.
This is also the root of the fued between the Romans and the early Jews. It was a core component of the Jewish faith that if you followed the "when in Rome" mentality and worshipped any other gods, bad things would happen to you. So as the number of Jews in Rome grew, the larger the population of Romans who refused to follow Roman "laws".
This all came to a culmination when Jesus started spreading Judaism. The Romans saw it as an uprising and hated the Jews for it, and the Jews didn't like it because they didn't feel you could really become a Jew if you weren't born in.
Apologies for the long post. I've been reading a lot about history involving this time period, so it's been on my mind a lot.
Edit: TL;DR: This wasn't unique to the Romans, and they weren't exactly as tolerant as they seemed.
Sounds an awful lot like Pascal’s Wager.
Well, there you go.
There are three things I absolutely cannot stand.
Someone asked me to play Wonderwall.
Well, the jews probably weren't monotheist at the time any of that was written.
Where in Japan can I find that?
I mean we all have our flaws right
Ah to be 12 again.
IDK, given how many people respond to the poor right now with "maybe they should have worked harder", I would suppose perhaps the lesson still hasn't spread enough...
this is my life motto. Live a good life and if you are judged well then it should be easy. also being a good person in life does have major rewards. i'm one of those 'nice' people in life and do say that karma works both ways and does swing back to the good ones. :)
This seems like an illogical and absurd position to take. I can understand simply not giving a crap about the question of whether or not a god exists, but this does more than that. This is saying that it would make no difference one way or the other. I'm not sure how somebody could confidently make such a claim, as there's no difinitive point of reference.
Edit: A fair number of people seem to be taking issue with my supposition that apatheism falls under the umbrella of atheism. That's fine, but let me make it clear that, in my view, any failure to believe in a god is atheism. Perhaps there's a spectrum of non-belief, but I refuse to accept the premise that atheists are only those who profess a belief that a god absolutely does not exist. To focus on that narrow definition and then use it as a basis for your argument is utter bullshit.
Don't forget the three wise mehn.
I'm glad this post helped you find out where you stand! I just realized i'm apatheist too!
Thomas Huxley had some good quotes on Agnosticism. Here are the 3 shown on the Wikipedia page.
Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe. Consequently, agnosticism puts aside not only the greater part of popular theology, but also the greater part of anti-theology. On the whole, the "bosh" of heterodoxy is more offensive to me than that of orthodoxy, because heterodoxy professes to be guided by reason and science, and orthodoxy does not. — Thomas Henry Huxley That which Agnostics deny and repudiate, as immoral, is the contrary doctrine, that there are propositions which men ought to believe, without logically satisfactory evidence; and that reprobation ought to attach to the profession of disbelief in such inadequately supported propositions. — Thomas Henry Huxley Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle ... Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. — Thomas Henry Huxley
Basically, the comment you quoted isn't quite the same, It's more or less, "There could be a god, but there is only proof if you can get legitimate proof."
“In truth,there was only one christian and he died on the cross.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Best attitude imo. "Even if this guy exists, he refuses to interact with us so who cares"
Reminds me of Forest Gump's Nam speech that got cut out and you didn't hear any of it. Ends with, "That's all I have to say about that."
I relate to that a little too often.
The story I heard was that he was reading the Gospels while imprisoned, so a priest who often visited him asked why he didn't convert to Catholicism. Ghandi responded with something along the lines of "You Catholics have a beautiful religion, I just don't see anyone practicing it."
If there is some kind of Star Maker, some being that could just look at empty space and think "nah" and there was now a galaxy instead of nothing, if there was such a being, the idea that you could talk to it by any means is an act of hubris so conceited that humans don't have the words to express it adequately.
The bacteria on the mold on the fries under your fridge have a better chance of talking to your car than you would have, trying to talk to a Star Maker. How dare you think so highly of yourself?
"A view related to apatheism, apathetic agnosticism claims that no amount of debate can prove or disprove the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little interest."
Don't be so silly. That's what he whispered into the ears of under age girls he "tested" himself with - https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/ezj3km/gandhi-was-a-racist-who-forced-young-girls-to-sleep...
If I die, tell my wife I said hello
A god that has no effect on the world is indistinguishable from a god that does not exist.
Prayer has no verifiable effect.
Therefore, even though lack of confirmation of a god does not prove a god does not exist, it shows that if one does, it doesn't matter.
I too have strong faith in the diety known as "what ever"
Then it would appear you aren’t an apatheist
Interestingly, here's what the discussion page had to say:
The Misattributed section seems odd to me since I have in my posession a copy of an old reading of Marcus Aurelius, possibly from an old tape recording, that sounds more like the misattributed quote than the one which it is derived from. I have to check it again and listen to it word for word, but I know I got the audio version off of the internet many years prior to 2010, so it sounds like it comes from either a very old english translation. At any rate it would have to, if I remember the quotation correctly. I will have a listen and check into it.
Like many things on the Internet, it'll be up to good old analog media to prove or disprove it.
Carrying gold, francincense, and meh.
It's about the message.
Imagine if someone had it and did use it. They wouldn't use it properly. They wouldn't use it for justice. But /u/batman does. Because he's the hero Reddit deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. The Dark Knight.
I'd argue that in a universe devoid of meaning it's impossible to waste time.
"I don't know and I don't care"
I mean, look at the etymology. I call the entire idea that it's a thing horse-shit. That's just a normal case of apathy.
I'd dare-say most atheists are "apatheists." Because tons of people just don't care. It's ridiculous you make it an "ist" because it's almost definitely not an active though. It's the baseline.
If teenagers had a collective religion, this would be it.
Or it wouldn’t be. I don’t care
Edit: word choice
I've seen better
So from what I've seen (and this may be pretty uninformed, idk) Romans had kind of this secular-but-definitely-not society. They were highly superstitious, had an established pantheon, and easily accepted other deities, but often times had "bent the rules" with religion when they needed it to suit them during important matters.
Only a couple examples comes to mind off the top of my head, but here goes:
Generals before any major pitched battle would have to ensure they had good omens from the gods before proceeding. This meant slaughtering a goat and seeing how it responds. If it kicks and screams, bad. Dies peacefully? Good. If a goat had kicked and screamed but they were intent on going to battle, you'd just double check that the sign was accurate until you killed a goat that didn't flail around.
Another is the consulship of Julius Caesar, where the head of state and military (Consul) was also the head of religion (Pontifex Maximus). Caesar would put a vote on a certain date, and his co-consul/rival would declare that the gods were unhappy on that day. Caesar would just dismiss his statement under the pretense of "I am the head of religion I say its fine lets vote on an issue I have stake in". His political endeavors would often come before religion.
And I mean some of the greatest mathematicians, engineers, philosophers and statesmen came out of this society. How religous could they have been? The emperor himself is literally saying not to practice since it's futile any way!
Edit: LindyBeige has a really good video on the subject called "Religion and War in Ancient Greece and Rome". I'm not as cynical and believe they did have some amount of faith, but its an informative watch none the less.
I could get on board with this, or not, whatever.
I am an ordained minister of the First Apatheist Church. Please come to our next service at Moe's Tavern.
Or don't. It doesn't really matter, I just want beer.
Important to you.