Why people still believe in this...
Look up the documentary " betting on zero" it's on Netflix.
Talks in depth about herbalife
Most people in America don't- thats why Herbalife is targeting Spanish speaking communities and countries. Its pretty disgusting.
Herbalife is garbage; the real money is Invigaron, with its innovative reverse-funnel system.
98% make $1.50 a week. Wow.
Denial is a powerful thing.
My Ex got the most mad I ever seen her when I tried convincing her that Mary Kay was a pyramid scheme. She had some good points to her arguments, but ultimately it's still a company that ruins people's life and pushes them to sell overpriced stuff to their friends and family.
If a company is selling you the dream and not the product, you're talking to a pryamid scheme.
About 2 years ago I gave it a try. I went to weekly free workouts with a group and it was pretty good. Then I stopped....the stuff was too expensive and I got a job that kept me from going to the workouts. I told my rep I couldn't afford it anymore, namely because I had to put money into fixing my truck. He said something like, "what's more important, your truck or your well being?" I didn't respond and I have never used them since.
It's a big river too
When I was watching it, I became impatient and googled their stock price. It was a disappointing spoiler.
Its unfortunately the same psychology that affects those with strong political beliefs. It doesn't matter what facts are presented, it turns into a personal attack in their mind, and they dig their heels. Once someone has fallen for the initial speeches and sign-ups, it's too late to tell them why it's wrong. They've invested not just financially, but psychologically. They refuse to believe they made a bad investment, and refuse to believe they made a bad decision. To have fallen for such deceit is an attack on their intelligence. But for heaven's sake, you can't tell such a person these things. Not right off the bat, at least.
When providing facts don't work, you must let them figure it out own their own. You can still help, but you have to come across as a friend instead of a foe. And just as stating facts don't work, neither does simply saying you are a friend. You must act it. Anything you can do to help them realize it themselves, such as helping with bookkeeping. But it cannot be forced. It's like a Chinese finger trap. The harder you push, the more they will resist.
The heads of these companies are using psychology to sell what they want. And the resistance must us the same. Understanding why its happening will do far more than simply saying it's happening.
Sadly this is very true, here in Mexico Herbalife is scattering spreading like a disease, and other copy-cats like Yor are doing the same, is so sad
My favorite was "I lost between 14 and 18 thousand dollars". Wait, is it 14 or 18? Your inability to keep track of your own money might have been a contributing factor to both your gullibility and your failure.
My mother told me when I was a child, there is an ass for every seat.
Sounds like Amway.
Turn it upside down
I need to make a phone call.
I find it hard to feel sorry for these people when it could be avoided by spending 10 minutes researching the company.
It sounds like a massive ton of stuff because it's the same formula. Shit's been around forever.
It's a pyramid scheme, not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are fraudulent investment service businesses. Pyramid scheme are fraudulent retail sales businesses. They're similar, but definitely distinct.
FedEx delivery guy here. Can confirm. 90% of the time I deliver Herbalife crap the name on the box is Hispanic/Latin.
Pyramids weren't built by slaves. Pick up a history book sometime!
How did that one guy spend 45k on this.. like ffs
Every once in a while I will be driving around town and I'll see a car plastered in Herbalife decals, and all I can think is "you poor, poor schmuck."
Is my well-being going to pay for my membership?
Great rebuttal! you sure convinced me!
Except Herbalife isn't about selling supplements, it's about scamming people into thinking if they buy into a "business opportunity" they'll make money down the road, instead they're just essentially giving their money away. It's a pretty standard pyramid scheme. They're targeting Spanish speaking demographics because many of the people in those countries aren't aware of these sorts of scams.
History books were picked up by slaves
I want to make a upside down pyramid scheme. Basically I rip off all the main people behind pyramid schemes on the principle they will become the richest people on earth
All MLMs are Ponzi or pyramid based. The real problem is the people selling the product are the product.
Anybody got dirt on LuLaRoe? I have a friend and his wife that got into that and I just can't see that sort of business model prospering. I hope they do well with it because they must have invested quite a bit to get started.
Well, like my grandfather used to say: "When the going gets tough, the tough get to suckin dicks."
This Ted talk by Megan Phelps Roper provides a good framework for what you are talking about: Here
Well, that's essentially what Bill Ackman is trying to do: he's shorting the stock, and he's trying to educate people about the dangers of MLMs.
This is very true. Used to work in restaurants and there was always a ton of the Mexican cooks that were apart of Herbalife.
she lost money and took on debt, got rid of the house and ran away to spain making me homeless at my first year of college
A rep tried to get me to be a member last year. I asked him what the sales process was and almost laughed when I heard it. I had no idea what the company was up until then. Good thing I almost never trust anyone, hahaha...
God I hope he wasn't a Boy Scout troop leader.
It's probably 18k but the person probably gave a range to conceal their stupidity a bit, which is in of itself stupid. I really feel for people like this though...they shouldn't be so gullible, but having been to a pyramid scheme meeting before, I have seen how convincing some of these sales people can be. What makes it worst is that the salesperson in my case was a classmate afrom high school, and long time friend of several of the people he successfully fleeced into joining his ridiculous business.
Wait get me outta the jungle gym first, I'm stuck in the corkscrew.
If you have to buy your way into a job, it's probably a scam.
Haha 😆 I did the same!!!
Because several billionaires with a beef against ackman decided that if ackman didn't like it, they'll bet for it.
The bigger the river the bigger the drought
Herbalife actually ruined my life when my mum started to sell it
Easy for you to say. But when you're broke, desperate and running out of ideas it's easy to fall for something. Especially since a friend or a relative approached you and you trust them.
Add untreated mental health problems to the mix and you have a perfect storm for pyramid schemes or cults or generally manipulative people.
A relative is currently in a cult. He was a smart kid, graduated college, had a decent job. But drug abuse and depression left him broke and at rock bottom until some cult members promised him a purpose, a community, and sense to his life without much thought or effort.
You sink a ton of money into merch then it's on you to unload it. You've got no control on the retail price.
Get them out of it ASAP. Just a quick Google search will point you in the direction of damning details.
And Rodan "+" Fields.
Have you heard of our lord and savior, LuLaRoe?
But your well-being was paying for my well-being.
I waited all the way til the end to be disappointed.
My wife got into it and is just now getting out. There are over 100,000 consultants and they continue to on board new ones as fast as they can. To put that in perspective there are 36,000 McDonalds locations world wide. We are lucky and managed to recoup our investments but we will never get back that time. There consultants always hosting going out of business sales. There is literally no reason to buy at retail price any more. So consultants have to continue to drop their prices to the point of making nothing. 0/10 would not recommend.
Fun fact, Mary Kay makes all programmers wear suits in corporate.
Okay! Okay! Alien slaves...
it turns into a personal attack in their mind
I get around that by explicitly making it a personal attack from the start. Anyone I know who tries that MLM bullshit in my friend group gets an earful. I point out that they're exploiting their friends and loved ones and only getting pennies on the dollar for it which is fucking moronic.
He actually said fake it till you make it. Worst advice ever. We have salespeople that do this and they just destroy the company reputation.
Stress levels pretty high you got any berries?
MLM is great and all, but the real money is in Time Shares.
Well, I dodge those too. Thank you.
I dunno, he started strong but about a 1/3 of the way through I thought his argument started to get a little shaky. He does pull it out in the conclusion though.
I'm not going to invest in a Ponzi scheme. Been dodging them since the 70's. But what is the disappointment?
As far as I know, they were just ordinary citizens. The work was hard and it went on for years, but they were paid for their efforts. I think many of them were farmers working in off seasons. The only sources I have to give are my memories of history classes, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
History books weren't picked up by slaves, go build a pyramid
And Utility Warehouse, and Forever Living, and Wikaniko and Phoenix Trading, and JuicePlus, and Arbonne....
When I was unemployed, in England, I was forced to attend a Herbalife pitch as a condition to keep receiving my dole. I just remember thinking how ridiculous it seemed, we did all these stupid tests and some weird pseudo-scientific stuff to do with BMI.. though some people there were quite interested in the whole thing and maybe even went for it.
Now I look back and think wtf? The individual selling this stuff was seeking out the poorest and the most desperate to try and pitch to. That's pretty darn low. And the job centre, a government institution, made it compulsory to attend just so their books would look better when people are newly 'self employed' hawking herbalife. I wish I had called them out on this crap then and there.
I have a friend here in Colombia that is completely immersed in this scam. It's truly sad to see one person blindly believe in this kind of scheme.
Desperate people do dumb things
If you have to pay your employer to work, you're talking to a pyramid scheme.
There is a very complex and expensive testing procedure for product sales opportunities.
Step 1). Buy pencil and sheet of paper
Step 2). Draw sales pipeline
Step 3). Compare to pyramid.
I mean I get it but ... where does personal responsibility play into this? How about if you don't want to lose $10k don't spend $10k on shitty nutritional supplements. All the distributor income data is publicly available people know (or should know) what they're getting into.
You can also return your order if you don't sell it
Funny how bill ackman doesn't talk about that ...
Every single one of them is a pyramid scheme. Yes, some do safer regulations to try and protect sellers from going bankrupt, but they are still pyramid schemes. There is only one way to make money in pyramid schemes: Recruit, recruit, recruit. Sell product to salesman, not customers. You have to be 100% ok with taking someone else's money, knowing they might not make it back and will go out of business. You have to know this will happen but keep burning through people's wallets anyway.
Then to make big money you find other people with as little morals as you and get them to start converting everyone they know into salesman too and so on and so on.
Mary Kay, Herbalife, Lularoe, whatever fit line is. They are all schemes. You are obviously safer with companies that don't do recruiting of recruiting of recruiting, etc but then you just have a shitty traveling sales job with bad commission.
It's usually something like a '96 Camry that's missing at least one hubcap.
What are you doing in that corkscrew? I bet you're planning something
You get friends and family members charging retail prices on some nonspecial garbage anyone can buy cheaper at walmat.
You missed out a bit:
That would make considerably more sense to buy at your nearest supermarket because:You can pick it up when you need to rather than fitting around someone else's schedule. You don't feel bad about returning it. You can find an alternative if it doesn't work out for you.
Taxes go to the government, this just lines the pockets of CEOs.
I guess it may be more accurate to say a lot of people in America did... it's just that people are now learning from others mistakes. That's why MLMs are branching out to other countries. You need a new breed of clientele who're ignorant to the scam.
All middleman sales jobs are like this. You get friends and family members charging retail prices on some nonspecial garbage anyone can buy cheaper at walmat. Then they guilt trip you every chance they get. Fuck that noise and their stupidity too.
I didn't attack you, but I'm interested in your side of the story. You can pm me if you don't want to tell in in this comments section.
Its not a pyramid, its a reverse funnel!
I remember her from a Louis Theroux documentary, I'm really glad that she overcame that insanity
Replaced by Advocare.
Or a gold ford minivan with a dented rear bumper and a sliding door that doesn't close all the way.
They don't tell you you're buying into a job.
They pitch it as setting up your own business - typically by making it out to be a franchise agreement.
Of course, because they do it that way, you're not subject to any employment laws like minimum wage.
How could you sink $10k into something like that and not be suspicious. Fools and their money...
But where do I put my feet?
DEE YOU BITCH
They are aware but many foreigners trust scams by Western companies. Amway advertised with pride in Asia instead of trying to hide behind sub branded names.
It's over $70 right now for anyone wondering.
It took me months to convince my best friends girlfriend that some ponzi scheme company she was invested in was a ponzi scheme. Can't remember the name but it was pretty recent. They sold energy drinks and other things.
Need action Jack Barker's conjoined triangles of success!
Nah, cos you can finish his sentence like this "Why people still believe in this.. .. I do not know."