These same people don't believe in abortion until their 16yo daughter gets pregnant.
Then they quietly ship their daughters off for a 'vacation' and continue to be against abortion for everyone else.
When I got back from Afghanistan, people asked me what the Taliban were like. I told them they are not that different from southern evangelicals. It was not something popular to say but it doesn't make it any less true.
"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion"
The relevant parts:
“It appears that the prayer room is ‘dedicated to the religious needs of some students,’” a deputy attorney general wrote in the letter, quoting an article written by an 11th grade student, “namely, those who practice Islam.”
In a news release the same day, the attorney general’s office went further: “Recent news reports have indicated that the high school’s prayer room is … apparently excluding students of other faiths,” the release said.
So they are claiming the prayer room is only for Muslims, which is false:
And totally untrue, according to Frisco Independent School District officials, who say state officials didn’t even ask them about the prayers before the letter ended up in Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s tweet.
“All sorts of folks use it,” school district spokesman Chris Moore told The Washington Post on Saturday. “Muslims pray, Baptists pray, Catholics pray, Buddhists pray, Hindu students pray.”
I realize that at this point it's just one word against another, but based on other articles, this room appears to be meant to minimize time away from the classroom. It wasn't meant to give Muslims any special privileges, it's just to accomodate their beliefs of praying 5 times a day.
So even if this prayer room is for everyone, Muslims will still be the ones who use it most. I'm guessing the AG saw that it was predominantly Muslim, then assumed that they were discriminating. Or that he's just using it as an excuse to attack Muslims.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a universal prayer room, as long as it's optional, not in the way of anything, and it doesn't take away from their classes.
As someone from the deep South, and a proud Christian, I agree. They are so deep in the, "We're under attack, and they're trying to compromise my faith"!! That they don't actually see what they're doing. I used to work in a public school. Freaking Bible in our waiting room! I honestly think religion, whatever you choose, is a personal, and home thing. Doesn't belong in public buildings.
what daughter? i have only 3 sheep
That really gives a lot of important context to some of these pro-lifers. It's a fundamental disconnect where abortion is in theory abhorrent. People who oppose it are literally unable to empathize, or understand that how they feel about something is not some kind of universal truth.
The dissonance, compartmentalization, and rationalization is so extreme that some of them can have an abortion and go right back to preaching against it. Fascinating.
EDIT: and if it wasn't already obvious, you get a further step removed with male pro-lifers. If a female can lack the ability to put herself in the shoes of someone who might want an abortion, a male is several steps further back. It literally could never happen to him.
But their daughter isn't a slut like those other abortion-seeking whores, she just made one little mistake and doesn't deserve to have her life ruined because of it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a universal prayer room, as long as it's optional, not in the way of anything, and it doesn't take away from their classes.
That's because you are a reasonable person. It's important to understand that that has never, and will never, be the goal of some people. Some people are very unreasonable. They believe that it i the highest crime imaginable that we do not believe everything they believe and act exactly the way they act. They literally believe this entitles them to eternity of bliss and us to an eternity of utter torment. These people want for everyone to think and act exactly as they do, and they will push and push and push every inch they can to get it.
Boy do I have a deal for you
"Schools have to encourage the true religion, and condemn those demonic Islamic lies!"
It's great to see a christian with common sense in here
That's what I've been saying for years- extreme Christianity and extreme Islam are mirror images of each other and that's why they hate each other so. Thanks k you for your service (assuming that's why you went).
FYI: This idiot does not speak for all Texans. He is a bigoted jerk who slid into office from people that vote straight ticket. I am embarrassed every time he opens his pie hole.
encourage the true religion
You do mean Northern Conservative Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879, right?
Exactly, I think empathy is the key to a lot of issues like this.
Among participants who voted Democrat, gray matter showed more activation in the left posterior insula, the region linked with empathy and emotion. The other side of the brain was Republican territory: conservatives flexed their right amygdala more often when making decisions. That brain region is associated with fear, reward, and a fight-or-flight response.
Incredibly, these differences were so pronounced that brain activity alone allowed researchers to anticipate, with 83% accuracy, which party a study participant belonged to.
And the divisiveness of politics only makes it worse:
When we try to put ourselves in someone else's shoes, we usually go all the way, assuming that they feel the same way we do. ... we don't extend this projection to people who have different political views, even under extreme circumstances.
Or if confronted, "Are you going to help support this child that the mother doesn't want to have? Especially since your daughter would have the same problem? Scumbag - "That is an entirely different scenario! My 16 year old daughter wasn't ready"! Reporter - "So, how is the 16 year old black girl from a single mother, more ready than your daughter"?
My aunt and uncle used to live next to a doctor that did abortions. Some of the crazy stories they told me about psychos that would come try to track her down were terrifying. It led my anti-gun uncle to getting a shotgun (just for living near the doctor).
Anyway, the doctor was a really nice woman and had her own crazy stories to tell. However, the most common theme was anti-abortion crusaders who bring in their pregnant daughters. She literally had one person who stood in front of her office holding a dead baby poster one day, then brought her daughter in the next day, then was back to dead-baby-poster again soon.
People can be fuckin' nuts some of the time.
i got 500 Blips and Chitz tickets, what can i get with that?
The problem, like most problems, is that it involves people. Some people are well meaning, and screw up. Some use religion as shield to hide behind, so they can say whatever they want. Most Christians (I believe) are like myself. We try and help. We don't always do good, but we're well meaning. I donate to charities I believe in, I try and be a decent person. But as with anything else, the worst of the worst, the angriest, the loudest, always rise to the top.
Religion keeps the poor subserveant of some other conspiracy.
Northern Conservative Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912, you heretic.
While they're decrying abortion and access to birth control, they'll complain about people having kids they can't afford to have and going on welfare.
If the took over a part of the country and made it their own I bet they would.
They would probably be exactly alike, if the extreme christians formed their own "modern" country.
Why are so many Americans religious despite us being the wealthiest country in the world?
Or their mistresses.
Joke, for the few of you who haven't seen it.
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
7/16ths of a plumbus
I don't know about hilarious... More like sad.
Empathy is the key to almost every conflict. Funny how often people use psychopath as an insult, when they wantonly shut their empathy off out of choice, when someone does something they don't agree with.
These people will not change either. I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to take the gloves off. I keep thinking we shouldn't say this or that because it causes those people to double down and they have feelings, but I don't think it really fucking matters. These people are unreasonable so they cannot be reasoned with, and I'm more concerned with their victim's feelings than I am with theirs.
I would like to see all Christians held accountable for this shit. Just like the right demands Muslims call out their brother's for their behavior, we should do the same to Christians. If they don't like being lumped in with the radical crazies, then they can call their brothers out.
Theyre inside Planned Parenthood being responsible, not outside being an idiot.
I know many girls who don't believe in abortion. Half of them had abortions anyway and the other half are unmarried mothers, but at least they're not hypocrites. /s
Rapid brain cog spinning noise
Abortion is a lesser of two evils decision. Not even pro choice people "want" an abortion. They choose to make a difficult decision based on personal, financial, or medical reasons that are none of our business. But forcing someone to carry and bring an unwanted baby into this world is a real and genuine evil imo.
Northern part of the Eastern Semi-Conservative Baptist, Uppper Lower Great Lakes Region, Pre-council of 1922.
I've said it before, and I stand by it. Voting against allowing women to have a right to choose means that you are pledging to support/foster a child that a woman wanted to abort. Hell, every vote public or private pledge of support against it = fostering/adopting a child. I think it'd sort out a lot of problems!
He's also under indictment for securities fraud. And there are some land deals in Collin County Texas which should be looked at too.
Almost all of these doctors have a personal mission to help people and save lives.
They put themselves in danger every day to do this.
I don't think they're going to turn away a girl who needs their help even if she wants to deny their ability to help others.
There were some articles / studies that popped up in the news about a year ago, that showed religious people are less empathic than non-religious people. Another where the children of religious people were also studied. and yep, intolerant and unempathic.
Students have always been allowed to pray in school. Schools and teachers actively encouraging or leading religious activity is what's a problem. If you read the article, you'll see these students used to have to leave school for some time for this prayer. By providing a secluded space in the building for silent prayer, the school has simply made them able to participate in the full educational day. This is entirely reasonable.
Well it is after all the very same sky fairy with different translators.
edit: sorry, I know this is the very same echo chamber, but it feels good. sort of like the youtube comments on the mike pence video.
To be fair, he probably speaks for a lot of them. Your senator Ted Cruz was voted in and he's supposedly a dominionist. Of course not all - nobody does that - but likely the majority given the margin he won by.
My former boss's niece came to her (I'm relating this story, so feel free to dismiss it if you lie, but I consider this woman to be trustworthy), and said that a close friend was pregnant (in high school) and she wanted her aunts opinion on whether or not she should be there in support of her friend when the girl told her parents. My boss, the aunt, told her she'd have to make that decision for herself. The other girls parents were regular picketers at the local PP.
The niece decided to go. The whole thing was undramatic and went well.
The next day at the school, her friend refused to talk to her. Over the next few weeks; no contact.
She finally spoke to her, you can imagine how this affects a high school girl, and the girl told the nice that they couldn't be friends anymore because she knew about the pregnancy. Her parents had driven her 2.5 hours to another PP for an abortion...and then came home and picked up their picket signs and went back to picketing.
My aunt went to church with these people. She said the entire church knew what they had done, but because of the way churches work, nobody ever confronted them. She regretted not having said something.
It infuriated her even years later. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds at times.
So even if this prayer room is for everyone, Muslims will still be the ones who use it most. I'm guessing the AG saw that it was predominantly Muslim, then assumed that they were discriminating.
Obvious solution is them Christians need to pray more. /s
Those same "Christians" who refuse to pay to feed, teach and care for sick children if it means one rich person has to pay their fair share of taxes, but fight you if you want an abortion. This Ryan/Mulvaney bullshit needs to end Wake da F!@#$ up Wisconsin and get rid of Paul Ryan.
There are reasons we call these people "the American Taliban."
Fucking hell, that's so painfully typical...conservatives and their goddamn empathy gap, man...how the hell do we solve that?
It's the same beliefs and prejudices in a different scenario. If they were in a warzone and given power, they would be the same.
20 years after high school, I know a girl (now woman) who is very anti-abortion. We all know what she did between her junior and senior year, but I guess she's just blocked that part of her life out. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm pretty sure that abortion helped keep her life moving in a positive direction.
I wonder what would happen if someone lobbied to put some qurans in that room as well.
Even if she feels horrible about it, she was allowed to make that decision and so should everyone else.
Well, for one, intelligence & wealth don't seem to have any correlation whatsoever.
Also, religion is about control. I truly believe many religious individuals (especially in politics) don't actually believe in a deity but realize it's an easy way to garner support and maintain authority and power. Almost every politician will scuff up the knees of their trousers to be able to fully lube up the shaft of whatever corporate cock is presented to them; so what's spending an hour or two of their Sunday going to their local church to bring in a shit-ton of votes is no big deal.
I find the concept of a deity to be ridiculous at best, but being raised in the Bible Belt I was inundated with religion my entire life. You learn to adapt and may, from time to time, benefit from people believing you're Christian. I've learned from previously losing jobs and friends, to keep my mouth shut about it to others.
If it is a public school I would prefer if they would call it a contemplation/queit/meditation room rather than explicitly having it be a prayer room. With the understanding that it could be used by anyone how need a moment's peace for whatever reason.
But, to the specific issue at hand I think it is nice that school tried to make it easier for their students, it sounds like some of the Muslim students had to leave to do their prayers at home during lunch which is an inconvenience. If there is one thing that annoys is the christian persecution complex, that feels that anything that helps a non-christian is an attack on them.
Who in their right mind would want that!? Oh wait.....the millions of Muslims in this country. Let's just keep all religious texts at home. Where they belong.
Get them to regularly defend shit that doesn't make sense because it's "right" and you've got a fantastic voter base for the GOP.
But it's not dedicated, it's an interfaith prayer room.
Of course if you even attempt to use this argument against them, you'll be met with "We are empathizing with THE BABIES!!!" or "where's your empathy for the baby that's being MURDERED!!!"
To them, the woman in question is just a side variable, a mere hurdle they have to surpass to save a baby, even if doing so destroys the hurdle.
the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, ‘You’re not going to tell them, are you!?
It's almost comedic!
Aren't the Taliban, like, a little more extreme? Or is it just that they got power and control over their territory or the context of Afghanistan and Pakistan? I know that the southern Evangelicals would be much worse if they had total control of this country. Just witness how much worse they are behaving since Trump was elected.
It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately too, everything wrong with these right wing gets, is they lack empathy for anyone outside their immediate "tribe". They are convinced that people who are empathetic are weak, and irrational.
It could be guilty or self-loathing. Maybe she doesn't want anybody else to feel the way she feels. Maybe she regrets it. Or, maybe she's just a bitch who doesn't give a fuck about other people's situations.
America is only the wealthiest country because it's the largest developed country. Per capita, median income it is not the wealthiest. The USA is more religious than other developed countries because of numerous factors, partly due to its founding (as in colonies) being by mostly religious outcasts who were too extreme for England.
I am in this exact school once a week. Frisco is a very diverse city (there are at least as many people of Indian and Asian descent as there are of European; one of the middle schools had a Hanuman temple across the street), and this is a reasonable accommodation.
Fun fact: look up how many schools Frisco has. It's amazing.
As someone from the deep South, and a proud Christian, I agree. They are so deep in the, "We're under attack, and they're trying to compromise my faith"!!
Christians, in general, absolutely love their persecution complex. But this isn't exclusive to just Christians -- I believe the Jews and Muslims have similar complexes that all feed a self-serving ideology within each group.
Yet they're the ones being ruled by the emotional side of their brain. The disconnect is brilliant[ly sad].
To go even further I know people who are anti-abortion but have a functioning brain so they support the pro-choice argument because they recognize that while they themselves may be against having an abortion that does not mean that every woman should be denied that choice.
In other news, the sky is blue. /s
Not intended as an insult to OP at all. Just a statement that it is so incredibly and shamefully apparent that it is like a law of nature. This behavior is disgusting and unconstitutional. If we atheist were all as outspoken we would have a stronger voice. The dogmatic far-right however refuses to learn something new so they hold onto their archaic beliefs like a priest holds onto a young boys tally-whacker.
No because the Doctors are the good guy and actually care about people.
Religion for power and money for self. To help manipulate others. Religion is a tool not a belief for these guys.
If that that was not the case he would keep his religion at home.
I'm sorry; where exactly are these Republican atheists speaking out against the theocrats in their party that've run amok?
I will just never understand these people.
Things like the poster with the biblically inspired quote mentioned in the article. I mean, it doesn't offend me in the slightest to tell the truth, but at the same time, maybe just... don't?
Like, why do you have to blatantly advertise your religion to anyone and everyone regardless of whether they want to hear it or not? And then to turn around and scream discrimination because someone else is praying on their own time, in a quiet and unobtrusive fashion, but they didn't explicitly invite you?
Go fuck yourself.
"Hey! Hey! Hey you there! I'm a christian! Did you know that?! Did you know I'm a christian?! Jesus saved us all! I think you should know that jesus saved us all and I won't let you go until you've heard about how great he is! Did you know I'm a christian?!"
"Uh, that's nice man. Can I go now?"
"Not yet! Did you know I'm a christian? I'm gonna pray now. Stay right there while I pray! I'm a christian!"
"Look man, that's cool and all, but I'm not."
"You're not a christian!? Well then I bet you have a huge problem with me praying to jesus christ our lord and savior who died for your sins don't you!? I bet you hate it! I bet you hate it so much! I am christian and I'm gonna pray now whether you like it or not because this is america!"
"Ok... I mean, whatever floats your boat dude. You mind if I pray too?"
"I thought you said you weren't a christian like I AM! I'm a christian so I'm gonna pray, but you're not a christian so I don't know why you would pray!"
"Well, I'm a muslim."
"DISCRIMINATION! DISCRIMINATION! You can't pray here! This is public property and you're excluding me from my prayers!"
Clearly being told what sex is caused it all to happen!
Not only that but these are the same ones who will fight against things that prevent teenage pregnancies and unwanted pregnancy in general. They push for abstinence only sex education in school instead of a well rounded sex ed program that covers safe sex. They fight against teenagers having access to contraception. They are on the side of businesses who want to exclude contraception from their health care plans because of their religion. If you even suggest free/low cost contraception to low income people they throw a hissy fit. They then make it harder for women to have access to contraception.
It's fucking insane to me. If you are truly against abortion then why not back anything and everything that can prevent unwanted pregnancies?
Considered yourself labeled as "uninformed".
Now now, you're all heretics that will burn at the stake, for Sigmar, and the Empire.
IDK where the state is getting the impression that it's an exclusive islamic room but it seems like this can be cleared up pretty quickly.
I've got rocks for days then! I am a white, heterosexual, Christian, male. I'm about as persecuted as puppies, and kittens. I feel zero persecution from anyone. I'm about as persecuted as Starbucks, or McDonald's. We are everywhere.
It wouldn't even come close to fixing the real problems though. The "adopt instead of abort" solution doesn't somehow mitigate the 9 months of psychological trauma that were never asked for by a woman who wasn't ready.
I know the common comeback is "what bout christians" well Christians aren't exactly blowing themselves up for their faith now are they?
It does happen. Here's a list of abortion-clinic bombings just in the US. By no means as prolific as some fundamentalist Islamic groups but they do happen.
Christianity did go through a mellowing period as part of the Enlightenment. Islam, arguably, is going through that right now.
Not entirely, but if you look around the US is an outlier when it comes to religion and wealth.
"I don't care whether or not things are fair, I just want them to be fair to me" A common attitude in politics.
Always anticipate Rick and Morty
It's astonishing to me just how much Christianity and Islam have in common as religions. If you remove the culture that's overlaid they extremely similar.
The posterior insula and amygdala are only small portions of the brain but, more or less, yeah. I'm reminded of Ursula K. LeGuin's intro to The Left Hand of Darkness:
Strictly extrapolative works of science fiction generally arrive about where the Club of Rome arrives: somewhere between the gradual extinction of human liberty and the total extinction of terrestrial life.
This may explain why many people who do not read science fiction describe it as ‘escapist,’ but when questioned further, admit they do not read it because ‘it's so depressing.’
Three?? polygamy is illegal bro
Edit: oops wrong religion
I read that study, too. Turns out, it was shitty science with the same old click-baity shock title. Too bad - I wish it had strong support.
I think the attached study is better at explaining how difficult this debate actually is.
Since religion evolved from humanity, and therefore evolved from an already moral animal, they take a little time to ask if those prone to be religiously-susceptible are easier to be "moral" than questioners.
Atheists standing up for consistency regarding separation of church and state.
are you trying to say the left uses the left half of their brain and the right use the right half of their brain? That we could potentially scan people's brains and discover their political proclivities? thats terrifying in a dystopian sort of way
As is Christianity. Your point?
Because the idea makes no sense, probably. Why would you want to align yourself with a party that has been taken over by theocrats? Being fiscally conservative is one thing, but being republican is another entirely. The primitive and regressive social views are a part of the label, like it or not, and by supporting the party you're supporting the complete opposite of your values.
If you only have one religious text in the waiting room, you're only promoting one idea. If you have a stack of religious texts, and let people choose, then that's perfectly fine.
What the hell do Republicans or Democrats have to do with this?
Because in this country, only one party does this bullshit, and it isn't the Democrats.
So, if you vote Republican, as opposed to at the very least abstaining, you're responsible. You're every bit as much to blame as any knuckle-dragging, redneck fundamentalist even if you are personally an atheist. Take some responsibility, STFU up and eat it.
But what do they do with the shleem afterwards?
So LGBT bashing is still very much a thing you know. It's gotten better, sure but it still is something we deal with. It's only been a little over ten years since it happened to me and I was put in the hospital. A seperate time a group of people from a church that was protesting us threw fucking rocks at us (I hope the irony isn't lost on anybody).
Living in the south with a heavy evangelical influence you still have to be careful showing PDA in public. I'm also far from the only one to have had these experiences.
So, he is ignoring the fact that it is NOT dedicated to Islam, after suing in favor of an actual violation of state-church seperation.
So yes, he is targeting Muslims. The facts (and the AG) say so.
It's a classroom that just happens to be unused at that time, not a dedicated prayer room. Read the article.
No they traditionally prefer simple gun violence.
I'm christian and this shit pisses me the fuck off SO much.
Fucking equality or GTFO. You want religion in school? Go to a fucking religious academy. Is that so fucking hard to understand?
The primary issue I have with the mentality of saving the child is that as soon as it is born they want to remove any access it might have to social programs.
If you force someone to have a child then you are also responsible for it's care post birth.
Does it amount to shekels?
Yeah sorry, that's not at all what the article says. The article states that the Texas AG is concerned about it being a "dedicated" room and not interfaith. The headline makes it seem like he's targeting Islam.
Look I probably don't agree at all with any of the politics of the Texas AG, but if we are going to resist, let's do it on the merits of facts.
Not all republicans are like that. I see myself as a moderate, and I am atheist and completely agree with your side.
Islam is an oppressive death cult
What happened to the separation of government funded schools and religion?
Scott Dejarlais is the biggest hypocrite scumbag in Washington.
You mean like how some can be anti-gay until their kid comes out of the closet (lookin' at you Dick Cheney) and they then become totally concerned about equality.
The Taliban doubles down on no tv for u and evangelicals can't live without it