People watch John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies and comment on how they were real men, but in reality they were grown men putting on costumes and pretending to be cowboys.

People watch John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies and comment on how they were real men, but in reality they were grown men putting on costumes and pretending to be cowboys.

Ron Swanson aka Nick Offerman gets a lot of credit as a manly man's man because of his wood working, outdoors appreciation, and facial hair. He's the first to point out that his family would disagree, as he's the one that went to drama school, learned how to put on tights, and practice proper Shakespearean diction.

And I believe he stated that he is considered the least masculine man in his family, because he has a brother who is a fireman, and his father was a farmer.

Or Robert Downey Jr being black, pretty sure it wasn't real.

If John Wayne was really all that manly, he'd have just said 'fuck it' to the idea of using a stage name and gone by Marion Morrison.

Nope, went there just to get stranded.

I feel the same way about men with loud cars and motorcycles. Demanding that everybody turn and look at you doesn't seem very masculine.

Kinda like Robert DeNiro and Joe Pescsi being gangsters.

I live in Morris Illinois which is about 12 miles away from minooka where he grew up and the amount of people around here who consider him the grizzlies adams of our area is amazing lol

Lol valid points made. I always feel as though Ron Swanson is basically just him playing himself. But I also feel like Ron Swanson would never go to drama school.

He's just the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude

Congratulations. You played yourself.

Reading "Paddle Your Own Canoe" by Nick Offerman at the moment, and you are quite right. He describes his idea of manliness as more of a way of interacting with others, chivalry, being disciplined, etc, not necessarily traditionally "manly" traits. Can't remember what it is, but he uses a different word than "manly" and assures readers that woman can have the same character traits that make people less assholey. Also thought it was interesting that he helped developed the character of Ron Swanson, and based a lot of it on his dad, whom he reveres.

Come to get stranded. Stay because you're stranded.

In my experience as a rider, it really only makes you more noticeable to people behind you, which kind of defeats the purpose. Lots of people like to make this argument about safety, but the reality is that they think it sounds cool and provides more horsepower.

Clint Eastwood was a 21-year-old draftee during the Korean War when his plane went down.

I didn't expect that to be followed by...

off the coast of Northern California

My understanding is that this claim is highly debatable.

I wonder if a study has been done correlating motorcycle loudness to accident rate.

Eastwood was actually a badass though.

Clint Eastwood was a 21-year-old draftee during the Korean War when his plane went down. He was the only passenger in a Douglas AD torpedo bomber, flying in severe weather off the coast of Northern California, when the pilot told him they were going to attempt an emergency landing in the shark-infested waters off Point Reyes. "We went down at about 4 o'clock in the afternoon," Eastwood, 86, recalls of the crash and his swim back to shore. "I could see the Marin County coast from a distance. I don't know how far it was — it seemed like 50 miles, but it was probably a mile or two. Then it got dark. It was quite a way into nightfall before we reached it."

He rescued himself and the pilot from shark infested waters, that sounds like a movie already.

He also used to be a lumberjack.

I could be wrong but aren't they talking about the characters they portrayed?

A lot of people have loud exhausts on motorcycles because it's safer and they enjoy it. Not everyone is attention seeking. Unfortunately there are a lot of young men who do only do that for attention.

Personally I like not being run over by oblivious drivers and being able to shift without taking my eyes off the road.

I thought his real name was Chun Wang.

That's not how it's usually phrased. They are most certainly thinking of their characters, but referring to the actors.

You feel like a fictional character is playing himself?

Can't remember what it is, but he uses a different word than "manly"


Fair point. I enjoy Westerns and like Eastwood as an actor and director, but it's not like they worked brutal jobs or faced down dangerous outlaws. They are and were pampered Hollywood legends that are pure mask and persona. People allow the screen essence to bleed through almost in a mystical way and infuse the actors with this persona. In reality they had a specific look and voice and swagger, that sold. But it tells you nothing about the man.

I find Ron Swanson just as hilarious as everyone else here and love Parks and Rec but I thoroughly believe in real life he'd be considered a shitty person and, after season 1, his character's beliefs are extremely inconsistent with his actions.

It's made pretty clear that he's compromising his beliefs because of Leslie. She's making him believe in her. That's basically what their feud in the last season is all about. She changed his mind. He finally got up the nerve to admit it and join her cause. She blew him off. He went right out the door and went right back to his old beliefs.

I kinda feel like you didn't really pay attention to the show. Leslie's effect on Ron is an important part of the dynamic between those characters. In fact, Leslie's effect on the people around her is a major part of her character.

The show was a little deeper than most people gave it credit for.

Oh wow! I got stranded in Minooka once!

John Wayne is considered the tough guy of his generation and James Stewart was the nerdy do-gooder, but in real life John Wayne was a draft dodger and James Stewart was a brigadier general.

when i was young i used to like john wayne movies, rewatching them now he just seems like every other bully.

He got a bunch of deferments to not see action in WW2 so I don't know if I would call him a badass.

John Wayne? That's a terrible cowboy name!

Technically he's a dude playing a dude playing another dude disguised as another dude.

hi it's me ur bot, 12 milez

Well that particular war and the amount of fame he made off of playing characters that would have gone to any length to serve his country doesn't make him a pussy. It doesn't really make him a hypocrite. It does make him an actor and what you saw on the screen was just that. What makes him a hypocrite and a chicken hawk was how hard he lobbied to draft troops and send them to Vietnam later in life.

Yeah I think it's pretty much entirely down to Nick Offerman's charm (plus some ocassional redeeming features of the character) that Ron Swanson is so likeable.

He is damn good at a lot of things though.

Vin Diesel is a huge DnD nerd. He's a fun, down-to-earth guy who basically roleplays on-screen for his movies. Look at Riddick, or that other fantasy movie he made last year.

"Did you see that guy's truck?! Because I'm pretty sure he really wanted you to see it."

-An Old Coworker

I read that word in my head with his voice. A very Nick Offerman word.

Word everyone who doesn't go to war is a pussy

Lagavulin Whisky!

I don't care, I will be always terrified of Joe Pesci

"What do you mean 'you people'?

When I was younger I use to look at actors like Vin Diesel, Clint Eastwood and others who portrayed these big macho personalities in movies and think, those are tough guys. Now I'm older, I think to myself, maybe they're actually very friendly who might even have anxiety. I began to realise that there is a person behind the character who is perhaps completely different to the movie persona I've associated them with.

Yeah, Eastwood isn't the best example of this, you're right. But in general actors are not who they are on screen and the public tends to confuse the two. But then again none of us are just the face we show at work...

Acting isn't just reading lines though so I wouldn't go as far and say that writers should get more recognition than actors. At least not automatically. If they written something brilliant they should be recognised but an actor doesn't get recognised for reading lines but for acting

The odd one out was Jimmy Stewart, who I don't think was ever really a tough guy on film, but who volunteered, then argued to be assigned to a combat unit.

Edit: And reading more about him, was something of a badass:

His official tally of mission credits while assigned to the 445th and 453rd Bomb Groups was 20 sorties.

Stewart continued to go on missions uncredited, flying with the pathfinder squadron of the 389th Bombardment Group, with his two former groups and with groups of the 20th Combat Bomb Wing. He received a second award of the Distinguished Flying Cross for actions in combat and was awarded the French Croix de Guerre. He also was awarded the Air Medal with three oak leaf clusters.

Everyone who ever got a statue was some kind of son of a bitch.

Traveling through I'm guessing?

For boys banned Marion, anyway

Anthony? John Wayne's real name was Marion Robert Morrison. Where'd you get Anthony?

I think it's been stated that the Eagleton Ron Swanson doppleganger is more or less exactly the real Nick Offerman.

I suppose this photo of John Wayne is on-topic.

I suppose this photo of is on-topic.

Fyi the writers tailored the character to him. His love of (I'm not going to attempt to spell it) that one brand of whiskey is entirely because of Offerman. There's more but that's the only one I remember well enough to venture on Reddit

Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

That sounds pretty manly to me.

A Bronx Tale

That's where Chaz Palminteri comes in. While he's never claimed to be a gangster, unlike most of the actors playing them he is the one that grew up in the Bronx watching those men on the corner that never worked a day but always had the best clothing and the nicest cars. He insists he never worked for them but he did befriend and occasionally do favors for these guys over time. If anyone acts or speaks from experience in these roles while remaining a respected actor on and offscreen, it's Chaz every time.

DeNiro's directorial debut was an adaptation of his one man show which borrowed heavily from these experiences he had growing up.

My real name isn't roy obannon... its wyatt Earp

Actors get credit for being really smart or incredibly articulate when, in fact, they are reading words written for them by writers, and told how to say those words by directors.

Just my opinion, but writers deserve far more recognition than actors. Everyone remembers Jack Nicholson in Chinatown, but how many recognize the name Robert Towne?

Not to take away from many actors who are very good at their work, but I believe writers are usually sadly overlooked.

No, he was considered a bully at the time too. It's just there will always be a group of people who look up to and want to be the bully rather than wanting to challenge the very fact their is a hierarchy and be equals.

In my experience as a rider it does help people notice you. I used to have really quiet pipes and many times came close to being cut off, merged into, ect. After getting louder pipes those things happened noticably less. Blind spots exist, some people don't check them, and being loud enough for them to hear (but not obnoxiously loud) makes it more likely they will look for me.

I like how my loud pipes sound admittedly, but they do seem to help me be noticed in traffic. I don't care if people notice me in a "look at me and my bike!" type way, but I do care if they notice me in a "There's a person in traffic I should be aware of" type way.

Sean Connery pimpslapped a gangster with a gun because he didn't want him on set anymore.

Behind and to the sides. Bikers get rearended and side swiped all the time. Also, you usually can hear a loud bike coming up behind you.

This makes zero sense, because the people who don't ride are the people driving the cars that this loud pipes nonsense is supposed to help defend against. So yeah they would know if it makes a difference or not because they are literally the group of people it is supposed to be affecting.

Random acts of blowjob pizza is my go to move when stranded in a unknown town

Want some actors who were real men?

Audie Murphy and Jimmy Stewart.

'Nuff said.


I think John Wayne was a bad ass irl too if I remember correctly

Reflective jackets sure help with those blind spots that aren't always avoidable. yup.

Think about it like this. There is a disparity between the amount of people on bikes and the amount of people in cars. Because of this, bikers are constantly interacting with cars whereas car drivers are only occasionally interacting with bikers. Because of this a biker has on average far more experience with the interaction between a bike and a car than a car driver does. With this in mind it would make sense that a biker would be better informed on the subject than a car driver.

TIL smoking and getting cancer makes you a big toughy.

The Dude abides.

I know him mostly for being a huge chickenhawk.

Lol. If they wanted to be safe they'd wear a reflective jacket, not open up the exhaust so everyone knows when you come and go.

Source: I have one

Have you heard a motorcycle horn? Probably not because they are almost worse than bicycle ones. I have been cut off and hoked 3 times and they didn't notice me until i rev bombed. You can believe what you want but I have experienced it.

Woah there pilgrim.

Wayne smoked a couple packs of Marlboros a day iirc, and most likely got even more carcinogens from his filming locations, which were frequently near U.S. Nuclear Testing sites.

On mobile and don't have time to link it, but there's a bunch of articles on "Cursed Movies" where cast and crew were all dying out from cancer. Military finally admitted years later their calculations on radioactive fallout were wrong, and that the filming locations should have been pushed further from the bases.

On another note I totally agree, 1950s/60s America was a weird place culturally. For me Harrison Ford is the real badass. Flies his own rescue missions in his helicopter, and when he crash landed that plane a while back, the NTSB said maybe 1 in 1000 pilots could have made that landing amd survived. That's "free time" for him, learning to be a pilot so he can be a one man Team America.

Remember kids.

Loud pipes save lives, helmets don't.


Tony Sirocco (Paulie from the Sopranos) has a checkered past. He denies any involvement of course, but he's probably the most believable one on the show.

You aren't a man till you're coughing up AND urinating blood on a daily basis.

Some actors, like the man who played Elaine's dad in Seinfeld, or the gladiatorial "manager" in Gladiator, were legitimately scary guys in real life.

Sean Connery as well, a minor giant who commanded a room just by walking in.

"Who said that? Who the fuck said that?"

"I didn't know Marion was a man's name."

Mr Sir: "Its not"

While searching for this Holes quote I learned Mr Sir was formally a female.

We San Franciscans are a hearty people who live in a veritable hellscape.

Can you give examples of inconsistencies in his character?

Wasn't Roc Hudson a sex symbol for ladies?

And wasn't he gay?

Ehh, I saw X-men Origins, doesn't sound as exciting to me anymore.

There is zero chance that hears a motorcycle rev up is going to make me notice I'm about to hit them better than a horn. I hear the bike like that I assume he's just being a tool. If i hear a horn I'm gonna assume I need to watch out. I think almost everyone would agree, for your own safety and the mental well being if the person who may potentially hit you, please honk if you're about to get hit.

If you can't reach the horn, relocate to a place where you can easily tap it as quickly as you can downshift and rev engine.

He was one of the only male stars of his time to not join the war effort.

"Tell me punk. Do you feel lucky?..

Cause I sure as hell do! Look at what they are paying me to pretend!"

Ohh, sweet. Thanks! :)

Nah he's really Iron Man.

Same with the tobacco advertising cowboys. They pretended to be real men, smoking cigarettes at a campfire in the desert night. But in reality they suffered from lung cancer and died years later.

You have never been in a bike accident have you? There is a lot of shit going on and the horn isn't exactly at the top of the to do list. Even if you do get one off the clown in the car is probably not going to react appropriately.

Lets face it, you gotta be a man to wear tights

In the land of the kale, the man with rib eye is king.

John Wayne himself claimed 5 packs a day. Granted not all of those really got smoked, some he would drag a couple times but mostly would sit in his hand or his ashtray burning down. Just constantly had one lit.

Having a loud exhaust has saved my life. When I was cutoff I was able to downshift to slow down and be loud at the same time(no time to use the horn). This caused the driver to see me and merely push me off the bike and swerve away instead of straight running me over.

That being said anyone with loud pipes that is not wearing gear is using it as an excuse because full riding gear and a loud bike are the only reason I am here to tell the story.

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Actually he was well liked and generous to people around him. Growing up as a boy named Miriam you learn to be kind and rough.