LoLWorlds 2017 | Group Stage | Game 3 | TSM vs MSFWORLDS 2017
Winner: Misfits in 45m Match History |Bans 1 Bans 2 G K T D/B MSF tristana lulu jarvaniv gnar lucian 80.8k 17 10 I1 H2 I4 M6 B7 TSM kalista rakan varus cassiopeia orianna 75.5k 7 4 I3 B5 E8 MSF 17-7-48 vs 7-17-17 TSM Alphari shen 3 1-2-11 TOP 3-4-3 4 renekton Hauntzer Maxlore gragas 2 3-2-10 JNG 0-3-3 1 sejuani Svenskeren PowerOfEvil leblanc 3 5-2-8 MID 1-3-4 3 syndra Bjergsen Hans Sama xayah 2 8-0-6 ADC 2-5-1 1 kogmaw Doublelift IgNar janna 1 0-1-13 SUP 1-2-6 2 nami Biofrost
The boys needed a loss to show them you can't give up early game every single time. Hopefully they learn from this and move on with strength.
Cull start was terrible and super disrespectful. Double's positioning in general was horrible this game. Nami pick was pretty weird too. Draft and Double kinda made this too hard to win.
You can't have the shittiest early game in the tournament and expect to keep winning games.
Damn, that's a wake up call.
It wasn't even our early game there. They stabilized in gold, and then just got fucking WORKED in macro.
Come on, Double..
One would hope that an entire split and LCS finals would be enough to show them that. Still in a decent spot to move on but I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried.
I can't stand this shit anymore, why do we always struggle against the worst teams
There's Taric, which, imo, would have fit better.
Can we please stop with these cocky comments now? The ones I saw yesterday, jesus christ. We still might not even make it out of groups, so stay fucking humble. This team doesn't look so hot after today.
"we arent going to underestimate opponents anymore"
don't do this again to us
that disrespect was fucking inexcusable
The OP of the live thread legit said both "We have the best macro in the world" and "we have 3 of the 5 best players in the world" unironically after we got the free Baron at 23 minutes.
It's like... dude, comments like that are why people think all TSM fans are delusional.
I dont understand why we banned rakan tbh, if we leave it we either get him or janna, instead we had nami..
Our early game is awful, we give up a lot of kills for no reason.
They needed one. Better now than next week when they are 1 game from being in or out of next stage
Early game has looked pretty bad for a while, it was only a matter of time before it got exposed.
We realistically didnt have anyway to deal with the 1-3-1 which is a blessing that PoE didnt take teleport.
We got out gamed pretty hard, gg's to misfits
I don't get how you don't gank this. Free flash for sure which would've put Hauntzer in a huge position to carry. Alphari just used TP too so it would've really messed him up. Sven doesn't take advantage of anything, he would rather just wait for the 40 minutes then do something useful. God dammit I've only ever seen him be proactive with Lee Sin.
He honestly doesn't seem like a champ the team has practised with.
If that's true, that would say a lot about our preparation...
Then they're idiots
Nami was one of the few Ardent champs left for the botlane, so I guess they kinda tunnelvisioned on that.
Misfits arent that bad, they played pretty good against FW and the first game vs WE was well the first game on a stage like this for all of them so its hard to count that one
They HAVE to protect bot lane better. If they want to trade that heavily in bot lane, you can't have zero vision and zero jungle presence and just let PengWang get dove over and over.
Hauntzer put SO much pressure on Leblanc and Xayah in team fights, you can't even hate on that pick. Hate on Doublelifts positioning during a few fights.
double gave me his season 6 worlds flashbacks now i only want sven to give me his season 6 flashbacks
Sven is playing like Santorin.
Sven is non existing in all these early games
WHY is Sven sooooo USELESS every single game?
Doublelift getting camped so hard bot while Sven making nothing happen the whole game.
We finally don't get away with a garbage early game. Horrible game, MSF ran us all over the map and even beat us in 5v5 fights.
Ima put this one on the draft. Sejuani's win rate this tournament is abysmal, and Kog is very unimpressive. Not to mention nami
Secondly its on Doublelift and especially how he played the early game.
That being said im not worried. I think we'll be fine
Really a pathetic game. Atrocious early game so far in all 3 games. No proactive early moves. Doublelift with the massive disrespect starting at level 1.
Can’t believe I stayed up until 4 am to watch that.... hopefully this wakes them up for the rest of worlds.
So I know we are all frustrated after that game (myself included) but let's not act like the world is ending. It's BO1 and every team has bad games. TSM is still 2-1 and in a good position to do well. Hopefully this game was a real wake up call for them.
They are a bad team. We played like ass and have been all tourney except for a few team fights. Im not dragging TSM into shit they are doing it themselves.
To be fair Maxlore IS better then Sven.
PoE is on pair with Bjerg, because he actually has a jungler.
Biodaddy is better then Ignar but Ardent champs are not hard to play to their maximum potential. Especially Janna.
But Hauntzer and Double should be better then Alphari and Hans.
Hauntzer delivered. Double did not.
Edit: I think Kog without any escape vs LB, Grag, Shen is a P&B mistake. He spikes way too late, too. Twitch, Xayah or even Sivir would have been better picks.
Also why pick Renekton if you can get OP Cho ?
This game was 50% Sven 25% Double and 25% Parth.
Where is our bot side jungle proximity? All week Sven is fucking invisible bot side while the other teams dive them super early
I feel like Sven was more of an issue. Double didnt play well but Sven seems so hesitant and without confidence. I feel like he shouldve been around bot when it was so trade heavy
How many ganks has Sven done in general this tournament? He had that one against 957 and that's all I can remember.
Yup, that sucked. Hype'd em too much. I really didn't like Kog Nami.
Imagine if they were ahead and got that baron. They do nothing for 20 minutes and then hope that their team fighting and macro can win the game.
Karma also would have been okay imo. Shield speed ups to move away from LB/Shen/Gragas.
Because TSM is not that good compared to how people here want to praise them. Their early game is weak, and their late game macro, while being their strengh, isn't that great either compared to other really good macro teams.
Doublelift going Cull on Kogmaw showed how much he disrespected Misfits. So disappointing when he said he would respect them
Our early game has to step up. WE know we have a good mid/late but for the love of god, teams like Longzhu or any other aggressive team will dismantle us. I know the team has a good early game FeelsBadMan
Yeah, it is disgusting how passive TSM early game is. Sven, especially, needs to be more proactive.
Misfits are fucking horrible we should be better we out class them in every role that was a terrible game
The fucking horrible Team just beat TSM, by shittalking them you are just draging TSM even farther into the dirt.
I hate to keep blaming Sven but he needs to be utilising Sejuani level 6. Pretty sure he didn't use his ult early game at all.
To be fair, Double getting camped is his own damn fault. Starting cull, going for that aggressive lvl 1 red buff invade, and then taking unfavorable trades left him at around 50 hp every time Gragas was around.
People have to stop scapegoating Sven for literally everything that goes wrong.
Sven didn't make Double buy cull, Sven didn't tell Double to position like a monkey from start to finish, and Sven didn't tell Double to die with his flash up multiple times.
Did Sven have a particularly good game? No. Was Sven the biggest reason we lost? No. Doublelift was.
Misfits are pretty bad ngl...
Their macro isn't impressive and micro is ok. TSM should clearly outshine in every possible way
TSM just honestly are playing shit today...
Problem with that is MSF had two champions with insane mobility to basically nullify Sej ult early game. Go to gank PoE - 'Throw in Sej ult, LeBlanc distorts away Gank fails' Go to Gank Bot - 'Throw in Sej ult Xayah ults and dodges it, Janna ults and blows everyone away Gank fails'
I'm inclined to believe at this point that it's a team shotcalling issue. Bjergsen is known for his safe calls.
What a heartbreaker as a fan, they were slowly starting to give me some confidence
Doublelift and Bio both played like dicks, and whatever the fuck Hauntzer was supposed to do on Renekton to salvage the game isbeyond me
If TSM wants to go far they can't keep shitting the bed every single early game
What frustrates me the most is this game sets us back at base 1... We're 3-way tied, no advantage. Team will have to play out of their minds next week to secure first, but a couple mistakes and they're also out of the tournament
Did you mean could've?
I am a bot account.
Honestly I wish they had gone with the Braum. You can block so much of Misfits comp with Braum and your teamfighting is still really good.
Just his Sej?
That's what I was saying. The vision and side lane control was like, nonexistent. That kept putting them in awful situations where they had to fight / force something or bust.
Couldve still banned janna in place of varus then...
I knew this was fucking going to happen
Taric was open. No reason to take Nami over Taric ever. They wanted to bully lane I get that but taking cull into that makes no sense anyway.
He is invisible as fuck, with how hard bjerg and haunter have been winning their lanes I have no fucking idea why he isn't looking to make at least SOME ganks
I mean for fucks sake bot side vision is suffering when there's 3 winning lanes
TSM lost at draft.
It doesn't seem like he enjoys playing Sejuani at all.
Eh, not the worst of things to lose this game. It sucks but maybe it reinstalls focus in the team. We need to fix the early game desperately, else better team are exploit that even more. 2-1 first week is still a very good result and we should look positively into week 2.
My concern is the consistent pattern of losing early, which extends not just to NA playoffs, but all the way back to coming back from RR.
I really don't think it is minor, and it can't get fixed with a "wake up call" because then it would have been fixed a long time ago.
Looks like Parth completely forgot how to draft after 2 amazing drafts in our previous games. Renekton? Nami? Giving over LeBlanc?
Really questionable, as I thought MSF draft looked stronger at every stage of the game.
I didn’t like Kog Nami either. Felt like bjgersen was the only damage dealer.
I was suprised they got so much praise from all sides even though they showed 0 proactivity. Some time ago they were critizised exactly for that: They lose every early game, just stall out and try to scale. I´m really sad, that they not try to make plays at all because i dont think that is a legit strategy. That´s what G2 did against them at MSI and I´m pretty sure that we all considered TSM to be the better team back then, because they were able to get massive leads over G2.
I think that's what makes me most bitter. Just the fact that I'm waiting a good 3-4 hours a night to watch these games, forcing myself to stay awake, just to watch them disrespect and underestimate Misfits.
We just looked lost, it felt heartbreaking.
He honestly doesn't seem like a champ the team has practised with. His pick in game 1 against FW took the entire team by surprise.
That's why you gank top. Renekton stun into Sej ult. That also means they would be attacking the global, and nullify Shen's only reason for being in the game.
Renekton was what kept TSM in the game.
Renekton was the only reason they made it to late game, and Hauntzer played well on it.
Holy shit, our early game is fucking trash.
I wouldn't put this game on Sven, it was definitely a draft issue. Nami is such a shit pick when there are better options.
am I the only one who thinks Sven Sej was terrible?
We aren't making it out of groups if we don't improve. That was pathetic
Yea I have to say. Each one of their games followed the same progression. TSM falls behind early, stall to mid, find a good team fight and then snowball after. It’s not a reliable way to win in my opinion.
DL is my favorite player but those were some ridiculously obvious ganks bot early that could have been avoided. Hauntzer is looking like MVP right now, I'm hoping this is similar to the UoL game at RR, but some adjustments need to be made. Syndra also doesn't seem to be performing well in this meta.. GG
Good Early - Trash Late
Good Late - Trash Early
TSM is like we can only pick one.
Sorry guys, but sven is just not a player to keep for next year...
The real question is why did we ban Varus instead of Janna?
They got worked in teamfights too. There are only 2 times I remember where Xayah got threatened at all, while PoE was freely jumping in and out of the backline all game long.
It's one thing to say it in an interview, another to actually do it haha. Hopefully this is the kick in the pants they needed.
Fucking Svenskeren's early game is holding this team back from being as good as they should be. Look at the difference between Maxlore's Gragas in the early game and Sven's early game. Sven is such a fucking liability. All TSM had to do was fucking win this game and win one more next week and they'd be in the Quarters guaranteed. Now we're stuck in a stupid 3 way tie. Fucking bullshit.
I put 75% on parth, 20% sven, 5% double.
Peter positioned poorly, but he also had little choice. He was the damage for the team and needed to walk the razor or be invalidated entirely.
Sven had ample opportunity to gank top and set Kevin snowballing. Kevin won on his own, but sej/renekton is one of the most brutal gank combos in the game. He needed to be more aggressive with ults, even if they would be countered with Shen tp. Renekton either stops the shen, or you disengage and renekton gets free time with the tower.
All of this points back to the draft/prep, which is Parth. As has already been pointed out, we banned ourselves out at support. Banning Oriana instead of lb was also a headscratcher, since we were drafting a late game scaling comp anyways. Leblanc threatens a snowball and pick potential, while orianna would provide teamfight, which is what we were drafting to outscale them in. We saw the leblanc do exactly that, and it stopped us from pushing our advantages when we found them.
Parth drafted so well in na this season. I was really excited. Unfortunately it seems like he just locks up when we go international.
Yup, and after that shitshow, it might just be accurate. TSM has gone down big in the early game of literally all 3 games so far. That is not a good sign.
Bjergsen better win his lane, since he does nothing but sit mid. Enemy always has huge pressure on the map, since their mid is missing and bjerg is sitting at a turret.