So I live in Maine. I can buy any handgun that's legal in Maine and CC in even the strictest places like NYC?
You would still need to abide by other restrictions such as magazine limits, etc. (as I read it) So your gun or configuration can't be illegal in that state, even if it's legal in yours.
EDIT: The two most common things that might accidentally get someone in trouble, would be magazine capacity limits and threaded barrels.
Is there a connection between gay marriage and concealed carry that I'm not seeing, or do you just think tit for tat revenge politics is the best way to run the country?
Florida's is a joke. You take a small course, they then tell you the exact answers for the test about 5 minutes before administering the most basic true false test you've ever met. One person in my class was told "You might want to look at number 4" when turning it in.
Next step is you go to a run range and fire precisely one shot and demonstrate "proficiency". In this case proficiency means not picking your teeth with the gun, shooting the ceiling, the instructor, yourself... If you can hit the target that's 3 feet away then that's great, but completely optional.
Then you mail your paperwork in with a check and your photo. That's it.
Welcome to Florida.
Nothing in the bill of rights guarantees the right to concealed carry. There is also no federal right to concealed carry, those rights are defined at the state level and vary from state to state. Some states require training, some don’t even require a permit. If States want to arrange reciprocity rules that is between them. The federal government has no business dictating less stringent concealed carry laws to the States.
It will need 60 votes for cloture. I'm guessing in the senate it gets 56-58 yea votes. The Democrats will run the numbers to figure out how many votes they can afford to give up. They will then hand these out to those in purple states up for reelection. The GOP can say they tried. A couple Republicans will defect to take a stand or something. The at risk Dems can put on a good show. Everyone goes home happy without doing anything.
Here in WA you fill out two pages of info for a background check and hand the clerk $50. Permit comes in the mail a few days later.
The bill, H.R. 38, ensures that those Americans who can legally carry a concealed firearm in one state will legally be able to do so in every other state.
What about those states where you do not need a license to carry concealed? Can those concealed carry people conceal carry in another state that has concealed carry?
Note: Missouri has it now where if you can legally own a pistol.... you can conceal and carry it without any official license.
If a NY resident gets a non-resident carry permit from another state (something states such as Florida offer), will that still be valid? Getting a permit in NY is a long process (NYC makes it nearly impossible), but FLs permit is one of the easiest to get.
I think the driver's license analogy is a good one, because a quick test I took when I was 16 allows me to pilot a two ton hunk of steel at blinding speed in all 50 states and most other countries, without question, but the years of experience I have with firearms, thousands of dollars spent, numerous background checks and fingerprinting, and I still can't carry when I drive down to Mass.
Just imagine a world where driver's licenses are accepted by other states. If you can imagine that, this is not too far off.
For example, I never took a driving test.
That's a horrifying thought.
Pretty good odds to pass in the Senate as well I'd imagine?
Give it an hour or two, EU is just waking up.
Had to check what sub I was in. With so many positive comments about this law, I was sure I was in /sub/liberalgunowners
so does this mean that every state has to recognize the permit that you get in your home state? or does this mean that you can get a permit anywhere and your home state has to recognize it?
YES! Not sure how that slipped my mind other than it's just so dumb that it's hard to fathom.
Lets make guns safer by making sure everyone shoots a type of ammo, MORE likely to over penetrate and hit people that you WEREN'T shooting at.
Don't bet on it.
This will go to the courts.
The NRA has argued for years that the 2nd amendment applies to Federal law not State law. They argued this because many States were less restrictive - so they wanted the State law to take precedence. Now, all of a sudden they are suggesting that this Federal law should take precedence over State laws.
I would not count on the courts agreeing with this.
well, one tiny step forward in good lawmaking.. while literally everything else is a raging tire fire at a shitshow.
Democrats aren't going to filibuster something like this. Gun rights are kind of a losing issue for them in recent years. With them having to defend a lot more seats in the senate in 2018, this is one thing that they don't want to have working against them.
One is guaranteed in the bill of rights, and the other is marriage.
Edit: people seem to think I'm against gay marriage
No, his question would be the equivalent of being a New York resident and getting a driver's license in New Jersey because he can't legally get one in New York.
You know states have different rules for drivers licenses? For example, I never took a driving test.
Most Con. Carry states (like mine) offer CCW cards for reciprocity reasons.
I'm pretty damn liberal, and I think it's fair for people to bring concealed across state boundaries. I also live in a more restrictive state, so whatever. But I have no issue with people who prefer to carry doing so, as long as they obey that state's laws, and federal rules. I would prefer open carry over concealed in general, but people like their subtlety.
People can drive in every state without being certified in the states outside of the one they hold a valid DL in. People are freely able to travel between states without extra validation.
I'm a firm believer in the second amendment, our forefathers thought it pertinent enough to be the second most important part of keeping our country free.
I also think that our laws need to be updated, since it has become much easier to build ones own firearm than it has in past centuries, and advancements in mass production technologies have changed the game concerning cheap modification of existing firearms.
Sigh. Removes arsenal from truck
If Kentucky has to recognize a couple's gay marriage that was done in California, then California should have to recognize a person's concealed carry permit from Kentucky. End of story.
In Europe we have a children’s song that goes
“50 people gunned down in the states, 50 people gunned down yet again, Get more guns, pass them around 150 people gunned down in the states yet again”
The Swedish version includes a little dance. It’s very adorable.
Absolutely, the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, and affirmed as a personal right by Heller v. D.C. the Federal and State governments have the right to limit carry in certain locations but not to ban it outright. But concealed carry is not a right.
So, if my state allows constitutional concealed carry?
/no permits needed.
They would have. A silencer/suppressor turns "holy shit my ears are ringing and I'm in pain" to "holy shit that gunshot was still really loud".
Even if it passes there are some very valid arguments to be made it violates states rights so it will live for years in the court system before going before the scotus
Gay marriage wasn't a liberal issue or a states rights issue, it was a civil rights issue that happened to be very partisan in both its opposition and support. That whole mess had more to do with the nuances of how the parties try to draw voters than any real position held by any of the representatives.
The right to bear arms is undoubtedly protected by the constitution. The issue of concealed carry is not. Im not swayed one way or the other on this, but I can definitely see a correlation possibly being drawn between CC and how "harmful speech" is not protected by the first amendment (like not to yell fire in a crowded building). I've seen a lot of hypotheticals on how CC might stop mass shootings in the like, but there's also not a whole lot of hard data supporting those claims. There are, however, a lot of shootings lately, so IDK.
Please don't present a false equivalency, it hamstrings your argument.
This is pretty awesome reaffirming our rights and to protect citizens while at the same time buffing up the checks against criminals and others who are trying to illegally get a gun.
'Murica, fuck yeah!
Definitely wait for Senate passage, reconciliation, presidential signature, and arrival of any effective date in the final bill.
Does this mean, as a truck driver, I can carry now? Truckers don't usually carry because we pass through so many states and it's impossible to be legal in all of them.
Your permit will need to reflect your domiciled residence, i.e., your home state or state of permanent residence. So if you get a permit while you live in Texas, but move to New York City (and lets say you have just received a NY drivers license) and you continue to carry, then you are illegally possessing a firearm in the state of New York. If you present your NY driver's license during a stop and frisk while concealing, then you'll be looking at likely jail time in the state of New York--even if you were unaware that you couldn't do so anymore.
I had to give them my prints also, and an extra 3 bucks to laminate it.
Just FYI, it's called a suppressor. They don't silence anything. It's still as loud as a jack hammer, it just keeps you from blowing out your ear drums.
It’s fine if you want to cc. Just don’t hit “reply all”.
How can that possibly apply. State laws never cross state borders, I don’t get to claim a 14th amendment right or follow Colorado’s driving laws when I’m in another state. I have to follow the laws of the state I’m in. The fourteenth amendment does guarantee gay marriage though (Obergefell v. Hodges)
Need gov issued id. You could also get a permit just to have it. Afaik all states will issue a permit for when you go to other states.
Might I interest you in perusing /sub/liberalgunowners? Gun rights from a liberal perspective. The most friendly gun sub I've been to and they welcome questions and policy discussions.
Feinstein already proposed a complete semiauto rifle ban this year. It's pretty clear they're sticking their whole hand on the stove.
Not even remotely true. Most cops, myself included, love dude's with CPL's
As an American, I can guarantee this humor will be disliked among most Americans.
Basically yes, you'd need to observe local mag bans, etc but NYC would not be able to stop you. That said thus far NYC, New Jersey, etc have totally ignored FOPA , "illegally" arresting people. Without teeth, which this bill does not really have, I doubt that will change.
We didn't lose in vietnam. We rage'd quit.
I hope this passes. I hate having to pull over and store my gun away every time I enter Maryland. Fuck Maryland.
Pelosi is in the house where you can afford to be a lot more partisan due to gerrymandering and skewed districts. She has some influence on the senate as she direct dnc funding, but honestly not that much.
The 14th Amendment to the Constitution:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
States Rights do not include the right to infringe upon the natural, Constitutional rights of the People.
Maybe, maybe not. The Dems seem to have a pathological need to burn their fingers on this particular stove about every decade. They're nearly due for a refresher.
I'd give it 51/49
This is incorrect. Read the bill. You can possess a permit from any state and it will be honored.
Which is also why cops carry hollow point (outside NJ), to reduce chances of hitting someone behind your intended target. And even they have to change ammo if they are going to be passing through NJ. Lawmakers making laws about things they don't understand.
Why it's taken this long to get to this point i really don't know. I'm a liberal gun owner and this is great.
God dammit. I would like to vote for dems in 2018 but this shit is why I don’t. This is not “super dangerous”, it will allow me to carry in Fucking California and then they can see that it’s not anarchy. Fuck, this is like republicans on abortion. It’s a stupid fight that I hope they loose (both gun control and abortion).
I live in California and my permit took 14 months to be approved. Then I had to take a two day class with a 60 round qualification sequence of fire on every gun I planned on carrying.
It's not a false equivalency. Marriage was ruled a constitutional right; the right to bear arms is a constitutional right.
Driving, however, is NOT a constitutional right and states are still required by law to honor all valid driver's licenses issued in any other state, including CDLs that enable people to drive machines that weigh upwards of 80,000lbs across state lines carrying anything their license says they're allowed to carry, from hazardous chemicals and explosives to milk.
The inventor called them Silencers, the largest manufacturer calls them Silencers, and the BATFE calls them Silencers, and one of the largest advocacy groups (American Silencer Association) calls them Silencers.
But whatever you say...
Nope. We are not worried about people carrying guns with permits. They tend to cause very few problems other than occasionally going places they are not allowed to carry.
There was a situation where a woman from Pennsylvania had a valid concealed carry permit and was driving on a highway. She missed her exit, had to drive into New Jersey to turn around, and was pulled over by state police on the way back for having a tail light out. New Jersey doesn't issue carry permits unless the applicant is a retired cop or politically connected, and doesn't recognize permits from others states. The woman was arrested and sent to prison for illegal possession of a firearm that she legally owned. The law forces the 8 states that don't honor any permits to honor them.
There's a massive misconception being spread that the law would allow domestic abusers to easily get a permit from another state and then be able to follow the person/people They abused with a firearm. This is not true at all, because it has been illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence to legally buy or own a firearm at the federal level since 1967.
EDIT: She did get a pardon, but it was wrong for her to have been arrested to being with.
Yeah, they're still noisy as hell in most calibers. Hollywood and video games get them wrong all the time, which feeds into a lot of the misconceptions of what they're capable of.
The skills portion seems worthwhile. 14 months is complete and unacceptable bullshit. That's then dragging it out as long as possible.
States can't restrict constitutional rights.
This is untrue. Retired law enforcement are allowed to carry in all 50 states due to the LEOSA.
As a conservative gun owner, I'm not a fan of this law. The background check "loop hole" it closes isn't a loop hole, it's specifically there to protect gun owners.
it just keeps you from blowing out your ear drums.
If you have ear protectors.
A suppressed (30db) .22 is about 116 db and a similarly suppressed AR-15 is about 125
At 115db you have less than a minute of constant noise before damage, and at 120db it's instant damage.
Edit: A jackhammer is about 110db and a 747 taking off is about 120db
Gun owner living in MD, can confirm, MD needs to go fuck itself.
The bill does have teeth though if you read it. If you use this bill as a defense and win, you are automatically awarded attorney fees. You can also use this bill in a wrongful arrest suit and if you win you are statutorily awarded both damages and attorney fees.
I doubt it. I don't think there will be 60 votes to end a filibuster, but it will be close.
Constitutional carry states usually offer permits for reciprocity reasons, so you would probably have to get one to carry out of state.
Only if you have to use it. You could cap the next Osama Bin Laden in the face as he's whipping out an AK in front of a school/convent/puppy shelter and still face felony charges.
In California, open carry is illegal, and concealed carry is only granted if you are rich, famous, or have connections. And you can't even get a permit if you aren't a resident. So a person from out of state has no ability to carry a gun at all in California.
EDIT: The two most common things that might accidentally get someone in trouble, would be magazine capacity limits and threaded barrels.
And hollow points (NJ).
They probably have funding for one guy to do the processing, and his previous job was at the DMV in Zootopia.
In New Hampshire, you are no longer required to have a permit to carry concealed. However, the option to file for and receive one is still there so that you can carry concealed in states that have reciprocity with NH.
Assuming this bill passes and is signed into law, it'll work more like a driver's license. You get it in your state of residence, and it'll be valid elsewhere as well. In the case of NH, nothing will change other than your CCP being valid in more states. all you'd need is to be is free of any conditions that would prohibit gun ownership/transport or being licensed in your home state, and to have a photo ID.
It looks like they're making the country more like NH. As long as you're not prohibited from gun ownership (and in this case additionally have an ID), you can carry concealed.
(Edit - correction from easyryders.)
This gets into incorporation of the Bill of Rights into state government.
I thought the second amendment was already incorporated though.
No because I meet the standards for issue in every state. But not every concealed carry holder meets the requirements for every state. They could create a Federal Concealed Permit, and that would satisfy would make the law uniform, or all the states could agree to follow a set standard. But it is an absolute violation of states rights to force this on them.
Not to mention that a tri-arm hotel configuration like the Mandalay Bay is basically 3 enormous 120 degree megaphones made of glass. Anything happening between two arms is projected outward with extreme prejudice.
Hard to say. Politicians propose silly things when those things have no chance of actually occurring. A great recent example would be 7 years of unified Republican insistence on repealing Obamacare followed by an unwillingness to face the consequences of repealing Obamacare once they could actually make it happen. A lot of GOP senators who hardlined repeal when it was impossible got very wishy-washy very fast because, it turns out, their constituents may not like Obamacare ideologically but would be even more pissed off to get kicked off Medicaid.
Feinstein? She's always been nuts and her district in CA is equally insane and wouldn't punish her for firearms hostility. Try that shit representing a district from rural West Virginia (but I repeat myself) and there would be very real consequences. Her proposal would never get off the ground.
I went independent after Democrats went from "the no-fly-list is an unconstitutional burden on Americans" to "if you're on this list that the executive branch has control of, you can't own guns, due process be damned".
You hear that? That's the sound of every Utah permit class in the country booking up solid.
does this mean that you can get a permit anywhere and your home state has to recognize it?
You CANNOT do this with driver's licenses. If you try to get a drivers license in a state that you don't live in, you will be denied.
NRA has argued for years that the 2nd amendment applies to Federal law not State law
I'm a fairly involved gun owner and I've never heard this. I can't think of any recent state level action that tried to go less restrictive than federal. I'd be for it like how states handle legalizing pot in defiance of federal law. Where can I get my medical post-'86 machine gun card?
Just some addition info for you. If the Vegas shooter would have had a suppressor, it probably would have melted to and plugged the barrel. I’m not trying to make an argument that a suppressor would have saved lives, its just for your info.
Suppressors don’t usually last long under the pressure and hot gasses that are expelled from a gun firing at near automatic rates. Now, there are many the military uses for those conditions that will last many missions. Maybe even the civilian titanium types would work under constant heat? I don’t really know. Everyone that I know keeps them in good working order for years by not rapid firing them, cleaning and storing them properly.
Holy hell, I didn't know suppressors still let that much noise through.
Same here. I'm always confused about the conservative bias Reddit has towards firearms, but they still have an unanimous hatred towards cops.
I honestly don't support this unless we make it where all states have the same rules for getting a license.
Except that in some states, you have to pass a driving test, while in other states, you just sign a form that says you're a good driver.
I have a CCP, the process to get it was disturbingly easy.
Concealed carry isnt protected by the Bill of Rights and the other is protected by Civil Right's and the 14th Amendment, you dolt.
Come on man, hollow point may limit over penetration but we all know that isn't the main point of it (pun intended).
When I got my Florida permit, I had to shoot 3 times at 14 feet. If I hit the target once, that was it. Add an hour of instruction.
I in honesty don't remember a test, but it's very possible I did take one.
You realize that every amendment whether the 2nd or the 14th has equal weight of law right? An amendment isn't more special because it's in the bill of rights. That's just the first ten that Congress happened to be able to agree on and they had to get it passed quickly.
So all states should be forced to allow open carry?
"And bear" is right there in the 2A. If you can't bear it concealed...
All states except VT issue permits too. Your going to need one of those as the bill is written.
There's what I want and what is better then before. I'm a pragmatic sort.
Carry a snubby and you're good in 50 states, not ideal but better than before.
Suppose you could use it to attach other muzzle devices... compensators, flash suppressors, etc...
But when uneducated people are writing legislation they'll justify it with the big bad scary thing they really know nothing about. So yeah, suppressors (which would be the more accurate term to describe them, silencer gives people unrealistic ideas).
Just for comparison, I'm an instructor in Ohio. We do 6 hours of classroom instruction one day, and the following day we do 8 hours on the range. Classroom mostly talks about the legal aspects of carrying + storage & safety, and on the range we do everything from improving grip to shooting from* behind cover.
The student only gets their certificate once they're able to draw from concealment, fire three shots on target, and demonstrate proper "scanning" technique, in succession with little to no mistakes.
Will be kinda ironic, the only people without a badge who can legally carry in NYC will be the tourists.
I don't know, seems to make sense to me. If you don't have a disqualifying condition, concealed carry should be universal. It would suck if other states didn't recognize my driver's license.
There is not a single time in history that the conservative party of the time cared a single bit about states rights.
From slavery supporters in the Civil war who declared that states should not be allowed to ban slavery, to the current party who says that states should not be able to do anything at all unless it is conservative.
If someone says states rights, 99/100 they are really just using it as an excuse to force others to do what they want. The only states rights argument I have seen in a long time that actually dealt with states rights is sanctuary states refusing to obey the feds illegal attempts to force them to enforce federal immigration law. And republicans were predictably anti-states rights on that issue.
Ah the good old days of concealed carry where our Founding Fathers' kept their muskets hidden up their pant legs.
So much for states’ rights.