"In 2016, deforestation of the Amazon rose by 29 per cent over the previous year, according to the government's satellite monitoring, the biggest jump since 2008."
Lol...fucking assholes ... world is so fucked
The Amazon Rain Forest.
Go see it before it's gone.
That's because the business community in Brazil took power in a soft coup, now their goal is to strip Brazil clean as fast as possible.
This is slightly larger than Rhode Island, or roughly 0.1% of the Brazilian Amazon's rainforest area. The area this will affect is already widely threatened by both legal and illegal deforestation.
Short of pushing for foreign policy that pressures tropical countries to preserve their rainforests, one thing anyone who can afford to travel can do is consider sustainable tourism in countries like Brazil, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. Spending some time in these rainforests can be life-changing. Completely alien environment to much of the Western world, but one very much worth experiencing.
edit: 0.1%, not 1%.
edit 2: People are going to fly to vacation destinations. That is inevitable, therefore the only practical way to lower the ecological footprint of plane travel is to improve any host of factors regarding it. Opting for sustainable tourism at their destination as opposed to tourism options with high ecological footprints, such as cruises, is objectively an improvement.
The really sad part is that deforestation is causing immense harm to the people of Brazil. Seriously, it is creating entire deserts, destroying water supplies, causing significant health issues, and altering the local climate in very bad ways. Their future is in their forests and corporations keep raping them until they are gone and nothing is left but pollution and death :(
You can actually get bits of it delivered to your home, wrapped around relatively small sundry goods. It's even labelled.
Fucking climate over for money happens in every country to some extent. But pretty sure they were recieving money for not cutting it down right?
Amazon company grows. Real Amazon shrinks.
Norway gave them millions to stop deforestation.
Edit: I was wrong. It was $1,000,000,000. Still not enough to get them to want to stop completely though.
"wrapped around goods, it's even labeled" <- They're joking about Amazon.com boxes.
Those sci fi stories where aliens show up and strip a planet of it's resources then leave. Were really How to business guides.
I actually just watched a Vice documentary on water shortages. I don't normally care for Vice, but this was well done. They talked about the immense water shortages in Sao Paulo and how the loss of large swaths of the Amazon is impacting weather patterns and the water cycle. Scary stuff. And I honestly don't see us doing anything about our environment issues until we really are on the brink. People extol capitalism as this great invisible hand that will adjust to things accordingly and will always lead us eventually on the right path, but what happens when capitalism has relied on externalizing costs to our environment and the world's poor...what happens when the real impact of environmental degradation is delayed such that we feel the effects of poor regulation only years later, can the invisible hand of the market really lead us on forever, when that immediacy isn't always felt by environmental degradation? I'm scared in all honesty, I feel like we're marching blindly towards a cliff edge. A few dig in their heels, but by and large the group presses on.
But if the area is threatened and it's fully logged, won't that just mean the area right next to it becomes the new threatened area? The border is always going to be fucked up a bit. Using that as an excuse to log just means moving the border deeper into the forest.
The worrying thing is that there is no brink. Just a gradual decline. Look at the Easter Islanders. Rats ate all the tree shoots, all the trees died out. So they muddled on - ate the rats for protein, smashed up rocks and scattered them over barely fertile ground so the wind could erode the minerals and they could grow basic vegetables. And that's it. They worshipped their giant stone heads, ate rats and basic veggies and survived. They couldn't build boats to escape, couldn't build rafts to fish. Didn't remember what they'd lost. Life was as it always had been. Rats and veggies.
That's the future of our planet. A gradual decline that future generations will accept as the norm. Any tipping point will be overcome, more biodiversity will be lost, people will adapt and continue exploiting what they can, where they can.
Those aliens were part of a greedy mega corporation. All the intelligent empathetic aliens are back on their homeworld complaining about it over telepathic social media
Is it just me or is Norway the good guy of the earth?
Edit: Not even an hour since I posted this and many people have responded with many enlightening comments. Thanks for teaching me more about the grayer morality of Norway, guys! This has been pretty enlightening.
“Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money.”
Are you talking about palm oil?
Edit: I'm a pleb.
I'm sure I heard somewhere recently that Norway were pressuring Brazil about the recent increase in deforestation
I can't wait for captains of industry and the like to realise that their gated communities can't keep out the consequences of climate change.
We're both the smartest and stupidest species... impressive feat.
I had seen recently that they were going to stop any funding towards deforestation because Brazil wasn't following through on their promises of not cutting down the rainforest.
Jeff Bezos should start buying some real Amazon.
Don't worry about that, when it goes we're probably gone, too. The rainforests are critical to the oxygen cycle of this planet, amounts to over 1/5th of its production and is home to half of our planet's flora & fauna species.
Cattle, soy (for cattle feed) and palm oil production is really fucking things up in these regions.
it would be such good PR for Amazon the company if they bought the entire Amazon rainforest to protect it
Well, that's pretty much inevitable when your population triples in 50 years....
are you talking about palm oil?
I have been reading a lot of hate about Brazil in this thread. I am Brazilian and I can guarantee that our citizens are against this. To sum things up: Our president in charge is completely corrupt, as WELL AS ALL of our politicians. Since the impeachment, even the most controversial laws are voted and approved. So... unfortunately, we cannot protect the rainforest alone. All of the world needs to know this, and because of what? Because the population is fucked up. Do your know guys, the Rio de Janeiro (who held the last Olympics Games) is completely bankrupt? A lot of public employees are three months without payments. How a population can save the rainforest if they cannot afford their basic needs to live? So please, can you look at the bigger picture here? Our citizens are fucked up. If you guys wanna to talk more about Brazil situation, you can private message me or go to /sub/brasil for more information.
Sorry for my English mistakes.
Edit 2: Grammar corrections, thanks to /u/dumnem
Unless the rest of the world starts paying them directly, I don't see them really caring. Their GDP per capita has dropped 35% since the financial crisis and is about 1/5th the GDP per capita of Germany for example. "It would be great if you could let your citizens live in poverty because we like your rain forest," would be a hard sell to any country.
Man, we are some real assholes
Rainforest trust buys up acres all over the world to protect. You can donate here: https://www.rainforesttrust.org. A dollar saves one acre so you know what you're getting. They already have millions. Edit: $10 an acre sorry. It's definitely legit, look it up or read below. There's another larger org called Nature Conservancy too.
enough of this, Brazil pretty much stole from us if they are doing this so fuck em!
Short answer: No. Long answer: Nope.
Before you say, "Fuck Brazil" for exploiting natural resources for personal gain, please consider how your own (relatively) comfortable lifestyle provides incentives for exploitation through the purchasing and consumption of animal products, palm oil, minerals, exotic woods, etc.
Each of us first-world citizens can do a lot with our own behavior to help be a part of a solution instead of part of the problem.
You're kind of close. May I recommend researching edge effects on forest ecosystems? The edge isn't just threatened, forests have different compositions the further you move into them. By cutting into the forest they will permanently affect the ecosystem's composition.
The biggest impact of this will be on fresh water. Agriculture uses an unsustainable amount of water (especially animal husbandry).
You are not wrong. The deeper you dig, the murkier it gets. Everyone has an agenda, including me. For example, let's take this particular case.Media: 860,000 acres about to be gone You: But it's only 0.0043% Me: Yea but it's the only major country where forest cover is decreasing (gives example of US, Canada etc) Not me: But those countries already use more hectares per capita for agriculture than Brazil - how we feed us? Those countries pollute 6 times more on a per capita basis than Brazil etc etc. Me: But there are sustainable ways to grow your economy - and research suggests that forests actually provide more benefits than farmland (estimated to be USD 730 billion annually by the UN). Not me: So countries like the US, Canada and Norway can lecture us? They are some of the world's biggest producers of oil. And everyone seems to be happy commenting on the Amazon, but what about the 8 million tons of plastic that gets dumped into the ocean every year - mostly by the so called developed nations? Me: Ummm, I gotta go to work now. Bye!
So you see, you can keep digging and arguing endlessly it keeps getting murkier the deeper you go. At some point, you have to just pick the side that you believe is right (although no one will ever be 100% in the right).
The world is gonna be fine, it's the people that are fucked.
This, unfortunately, is the correct answer. The human lifespan is too short. If even half of the business elite were to live twice as long, maybe they would think about the importance of the environment vs $$$ :(
The angriest Norwegian in Norway ^
We really gotta get used to knowing that there are some people that care about the future of the world, and others who dont give a fuck.
It just doesn't make sense. We'll give them soy for free if they want it. Their beef production can't be growing that fast that they need this much space. It's impossible.
The problem is Brazil ranchers and farmers are stupid. I mean it. They don't comprehend basic farming and grazing techniques and so leave the land in a desolate state and need new rich soil. Idiots.
It's not their age, lots of us over 60 DO give a shit about the world and what's being done to it. It's greed, pure and simple. It's what destroyed Rome, and it's going to be what destroys all of us.
The rich need tax cuts so they can afford an escape to Mars.
Norway built its fortune on oi. Norway has also recently completely banned drilling in certain regions where we know there is oil, but we dont want to ruin our environment.
There is such an insane amount of energy being spent on researching reduced emission and pollution from our industry. There is also heavy investment in windill parks and electrical production.
Noray is a enormous distributor of electrical power and natural gas to both mainland EU and the UK.
In short: Pollution is bad, we very much want to do something about it.
not even close, but this is fucking bs. its pretty fucking retarded, Brazil can host WC and OL but they cant stop cutting down the Amazon, even after we gave them money. fuck em!
I hope you are aware that most countries are working to INCREASE their forest cover, not decrease it. This is why this is news.
From the official EU website: "If we focus on the nations with the largest forest areas – Russia, Brazil, Canada, USA, and Chin...
They do comprehend everything. They don't invest in making the soil better because it is cheaper to just cut a piece more of forest. They will not only make money from the wood, but also from the land. Meanwhile correcting the soil takes lots of money and time.
In areas where there is no more forest to cut (souther half of Brazil), the soil is taken care properly because the farmers cant just migrate to a new zone, everything is already occupied.
Well don't forget a lot of the CEOs of these companies are on the other side of 50...they don't really care about the next generation because they won't be around to see the results...they need to impress shareholders now in the present, wtf do they care about the future?
I'm not sure they would. I think they would have at least double the money and just keep their own slice of nature the way they do now. Why else does someone want 100,000 acres of private land?
I used to think the part in Superman lore where a super advanced civilization does nothing and ignores science while their planet is torn apart was silly. Now I'm watching it happen in real time.
i'm normally an absolute peaceful person. but when i read things like that, i become irrationally angry and wish that the brazilians would storm these logging camps in the thousands and destroy them.
We will make an oxygen from electricity from burning coals, then. Another business opportunity, finally we'll be able to sell air! So many customers, so ripe market!
Absolutely nothing. Brazil's fertility rate fell below 2 about a decade ago. By 2040 the population will settle at probably 235 million, up from today's 211 million, and will start falling significantly by 2050
shit the world is turning into a lorax movie.
Aside from the fact that Brazil's population is under control, the cattle and soy produced in the region are export commodities - blame international markets for that.
Yeah, and we're worried about that 'blip,' which is an insanely long time by human standards, and could affect the biosphere(and everything we know and love) for millions of years.
Every time someone inevitably throws the Carlin quote into an environmental thread, it adds nothing. We are concerned about us and the current ecosystem. No one is arguing that life won't continue on vast geologic timescales. It's not helpful to the discussion and it's certainly not a revelation. We have several major extinctions that have made that statement abundantly obvious.
People in this thread going buck wild about this but it's very likely most of you live in advanced countries that have had a long history of destroying their environments for the sake of extracting their own finite natural resources. I get that we need to protect rainforests as they are very effective carbon sinks, but we in developed economies must be aware of our hypocrisy when we ask emerging developing countries like Brazil to reduce or stop deforestation, as they're only doing it to further develop their own countries. The Brazilian logger, miner and farmer doesn't care about their contribution to climate change; they're more focussed on putting food on the table, making sure their families have a roof over their heads, and that their kids can get a post-secondary education.
The world might be fine but the planet's ecosystem is definitely fucked too. Think about all of the animals that the human race has made extinct or so endangered there is no possibility to save the species. Noxious plants and animals are found in environments they aren't supposed to be found in. Hunting disrupts local ecosystems. There is a mountain of trash in the middle of the ocean and all across the world in landfills that will take millennia to decompose. People fucked the world too.
Saying the world is fine is kinda like stabbing someone and them needing to go on life support for the rest of their life and then saying "they're fine".
That's a billion.
So were gonna put all your hope into this aaaaaaaaaaannndd its gone.
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Another problem is that this doesn't only affect the people of Brazil, but the planet as a whole. Someday it's going to get to the point where other nations are going to have to step in on things like this.
Not to mention that we are in developed societies precisely because we exploited the hell out of our natural resources. My home state used to be more than 90% forested before European arrival, now it's about 4% forested, for example.
This is why many leasing scientists and academics advocate socialism. Not Stalinisim, not even really Marxism, but some kind of democratic system where benefit to human life and society are how things are measured instead of profit.
A similarly depressing thing to think about is automation. Will our current society harness it for the potentially huge benefits for all man kind, or will it be used to profit a small group while having little benefit or even creating hardship for others? Same with the potential to be exploit resources in space.
The future might be a scary place even putting aside environmental issues.
And as bleak as it seems we cannot give up on any of these issues. The more people who give up the more certain a bleak future becomes.
I volunteered on an organic farm in Ecuador for a few months and no, they really really don't understand what wee consider to be the basics of farming.
I was hailed as some sort of genius after suggesting irrigation should be done with lengths of hose with holes in instead of - and I shit ye not - having a dozen guys flick water over an entire field with shovels!
I know Brazil is not Ecuador, but it's a lot moor like Ecuador than the US/Europe.
Why pay to travel to Mars when you can make money while turning the earth into Mars?
I can imagine the CIV voice announcer saying this.
Happened in Kenya to so many forests. Now they cruing about drought and slow rains. Even though people are eductaed and know the inportance of forests, the idiotic and corrupt politicians can never settle as long as there is money to be made somehow.
Additionally, it is easy to see this. Go to any body of woods and you will notice that that edge is very dense with underbrush while the heart of the forest has more trees and smaller underbrush, sometimes different plants altogether.
People kinda suck.
We're just fucking stupid.
We care more about arbitrary monetary value than life.
this is the reality that nobody has the empathy to consider
Cut down the vast majority of your own forests and wreck local ecosystems in your own nations Continue to generate a demand for products and resources that vastly outstrips what your own nations can provide. Spur on the creation multi-national companies whose only incentive is to supply your demands. Tell them to stop polluting in YOUR country, but still expect that you can continue to increase your resource demands every year. Companies begin paying the developing world to starting destroying their own ecosystems to meet the resource demands of the developed world. Blame to whole fiasco on developing nations, simultaneously generating the demand that causes ecological devastation while being able to pretend that your nation practises sustainability.
Europe and North America were forested heavily as well, and almost all of it was cut down for agriculture. Now Brazil does the same thing, and the developed world is all yelling at them to be responsible and think of the children.
Maybe start planting trees in the first world instead of telling the 3rd world to hamstring itself for everyone's sake.
For the record, I understand the biological diversity and importance of the rainforest. But there's this shitty attitude everywhere acting like developing nations are causing ecological havoc when they're just following in the massively destructive footsteps of developed countries. The pollution per capita in developing nations is a small fraction of that of developed nations, if people in Europe and North America burned only as many resources as the poor people in Brazil we wouldn't even have to have worried about carbon levels.
The big problem is that rain forest soil is incredibly infertile and only supports the rain forest because there is so much biomass constantly dying and being recycled. Take away that biomass (the forest) and you are left with soil that can support crops for like 2-3 years tops before it becomes useless.
Can they actually do it though?
Haha. It's an oil country.
I mean WC is probably a contest to show how corrupt you are, up next are Russia and Qatar....so the next WC will probably be NK. /s
I keep saying this but people just put their fingers in their ears and downvote.
Nothing sustainable about air Travel. Sustainable tourism is a hoax invented so rich people can buy a clean conscience
And when it's picked clean, the rich will leave and go find another country to strip.
Why are people like this
Yep. This is it.
I'm from Brazil myself, and it's funny, I always used to think "Brazil isn't as poor as people think", because it took me a while to realize that the reality I live in isn't even close to what 99% of the country faces everyday.
Imagine if you had a great backyard with many trees, your family was starving, and you could get a bunch of money for cutting it down. Your neighbors get pissed, but fuck, they're not paying your bills.
I'm not pro-deforestation, obviously, I just think there should be more international incentive.
Smart move would be to not destroy the planet for paper with someone's face on it
Most of the agriculture practiced in Brazil is not a mere organic farm, Brazil is the second largest exporter of soybeans in the world, and agriculture in Brazil is considered equivalent to that of developed countries. All brazilian soil has already been decades ago and agronomy courses are abundant.
I know Reddit likes to put Brazil in the dirt, but it's not the case when we talk about agriculture. I don't like to use personal experience as argument, but I'm a brazilian agronomy student who grew up arround farms, I know what I'm talking about. The agricultural sector is the only one in Brazil worthy of being called first world-ish. Those people on the Amazon don't use their soil properly because they don't want to.
EDIT: I mean that these people know exactly what they are doing and its consequenses to the planet and shoud be held responsable. I my view, argue that they do it because of their ignorance is in some way trying to exempt them from guilt.
From a business standpoint (throwing all ethics out the window) it feels like it makes more sense to accept funding to protect the rain forest for as long as possible. You can always destroy the rain forest for profit later, but once it's gone nobody will be spending money to protect something that doesn't exist. I guess they're making a bunch of money short term for this.
It feels like it's trying to protect itself.
Yeah but then they'd have like, Amazon Park Ranger Death Squads.
150 acres lost every minute and over 20% gone entirely
It couldn't work. They'd "protect it" and enterprising locals would just illegally strip-harvest it anyways. The only way to really protect it would be to build a wall around it and police it with guards... Doesn't sound like a good PR situation.
Let's look at how much CO2 is emitted by someone living in the US vs someone in Brazil, shall we?
Someone in the US will emit 17.62 metric tons of CO2 Someone in Brazil will emit 2.41 metric tons of CO2
So someone in the US, living it up with 1st world comforts such as air conditioning in the summer, heat in the winter, driving their cars to and fro anywhere they want is emitting 7.3 times as much CO2 as someone in Brazil.
So if you really do care about the planet you could start living like someone in Brazil. If you aren't willing to give up your comforts you can't complain when people in 3rd world countries are striving to get to 1st world living standards.
You see, Jeff Bezos is killing everything.
This. California has cut down more than 90% of its redwoods and made all that sweet $$$
Edit: I correct it. California has cut down 97% of its redwoods. Fucking 97%.
These trees were 1000-1500 years old.
You can't handle my antioxidants traveller
Free condoms. You have to pay for contraception (cheap because of gov subsidies) and abortions are illegal.
We aren't doing much.
Yes definitely. So they raze and graze. They don't even try to replenish it with crop cycling like clover. It's idiotic. We learned crop cycling millennia ago as a species.
What are you talking about? Brazil's fertility rate is already BELOW replacement level at 1.76 (which is UNDER the US's fertility rate of 1.88), and it's population is expected to grow to its peak from 208 million in 2015 to 238 million in 2050 before finally dropping. Stop pulling random statistics out of your ass - the population of the US is expected to grow even more than most Latin American countries due to immigration.
Sadly Brazilians thought Temer would improve, but his government is a disaster. Worse still: the two next people in line for the presidency, House and Senate presidents, are in the same situation and could go to jail if they didn't have immunity.
Henrique Meirelles, former Bank of America / Fleet Boston president, lifetime banker, is running the country. They're doing everything the financial market tells them to. Temer has zero power to confront the banks, he has less than 8% approval rate.
Brazil's in a dire situation.
It looks like the infection hit capitalism.exe first and spread from there. Be on the lookout for the malware called "1percent". It likes to hide in government networks.