Read the comments most of them are insane. I don't understand why the conservatives on here hate the fact that 4 people died in Benghazi but have no problem that over 5000 were killed in Iraq. Heck the Benghazi report basically cleared Obama and Clinton on wrongdoing and it was a majority conservative committee. Jesus these people are scary.
The Democratic-led investigation into the over 250 Americans who were killed in an attack under Reagan lasted two months total. We're about three years into this one.
5k? Add about two zeros to that number and you have the civilian toll. And that's conservative.
This isn't about learning the truth it's about destroying Hillary and Obama.
The comments on these articles are really hard for me to read. I actually knew Sean Smith , the IT guy killed in the attacks via the SA forums and Eve online, and he was a moderate liberal with a huge bullshit filter for nonsensical arguments (He moderated the debate and discussion forum on SA and came down hard on people who used talking point bizaro arguments). He would have hated how his death has been used as a rallying cry by the far right. He valued dispassionate evaluation, not agressive bananas politics. I just wish these people would find someone elses death to hijack.
Well, you know the attack was clearly the fault of Obama and Hillary Clinton. After all, there were no attacks on U.S. embassies during George W. Bush's Presidency. If there were, then they would be 100% his fault, because "it happened on his watch."
No attacks, except for:
June 14, 2002. The U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan is attacked.
February 28, 2003. Pakistani guards assigned to guard the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan are shot.
March 15, 2004. Bomb plot against the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan (foiled)
July 30, 2004. The U.S. Embassy in Tashkent, Uzbekistan is attacked.
March 2, 2006. Car bomb outside the hotel adjacent to the U.S. Consulate in Pakistan (American diplomat killed)
January 12, 2007. RPG fired at the U.S. Embassy in Athens, Greece.
July 9, 2008. The U.S. Consulate in Istanbul, Turkey is attacked.
Sept 17, 2008. The U.S. Embassy in Sana'a, Yemen is attacked.
But if we just elect us some Republicans, everything will be hunky dory. It will all work out fine, because Republicans stop terror attacks. Oh! Wait! I forgot that Bush and Cheney defended us from.
But yeah .. this Benghazi thing happened on Obama's watch, and anything that happens on a given President's watch is that President's fault.
But at least Bush got that guy. He sure did. He followed up and he kept pursuing the evil doers. After all, Bush pledged to bring back Osama Bin Laden "dead or alive" (exact quote) - didn't he? I'm pretty sure it was Bush/Cheney's amazing leadership that finally got bin Laden.
Side note about myself: Just want to add that I am non-partisan. I happen to despise Bush and I also very deeply dislike Obama. Having seen the clear pattern in U.S. elections, I already dislike our next president.
They've been doing it his entire presidency, and before he was elected. Not that he symbolized terrorism, turned a blind eye, or supported it. But that he was LITERALLY a terrorist and was pretending to be a Democratic politician to get elected, whereby he would destroy the country from the inside out. You look back now and think stating that is histrionic or hyperbole, but that is literally what they believed as a party (and still do, probably, although secretly acknowledging that he's probably not gonna 'act out' at this point).
That's when 20 fucking percent of the entire republican party isn't believing he is the literal antichrist.
So In the comment section of this article people state that Obama created ISIS using the Benghazi incident as the start of it. Then many mention how Obama and Hillary lied to the families and the American people which make me question how do they not have the same feelings for Bush and his cabinet. I just can't fathom some of these comments. It's like they literally believe Obama is a terrorist and that's insane.
And the irony of it all; The GOP defunded embassy/consulate security a few years prior.
Not really. It's pandering to idiots. This nonsense isn't swinging any votes
Funny thing is, if you want to look at US causes for the inception of ISIS you really don't need to look much further than the detainment camps we set up in the Middle East.
You know how they call prison a "finishing school for criminals"? Well, our mid-east detainment camps were exactly that, except for terrorists.
We took the worst kind of radical terrorists and put them in a camp with slightly-less bad agitators and innocent bystanders who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and let them all mix together; the radicals would leverage the fact that we'd just fucked over the innocent guys to make everyone else more pissed off at the USA, and shared around contact information. Those detainment camps created fertile mental ground for the idea of an Islamic state.
And none of this shit would have happened if Cheney hadn't decided to go explode Iraq. Saddam was an asshole to his people, but he wasn't significantly worse than a lot of other dictators like Gaddafi or ol' Kimmy.
Republicans are this countries greatest shame.
A few MONTHS prior. It was in the same year.
It's pandering to idiots
To Fox News this is one and the same. Keeping the conversation focused here hurts Obama's and Clinton's credibility because the conversation doesn't change to more pressing topics. Idiots may be the ones buying it, but idiots are still dictating the conversation.
I don't understand why the conservatives on here hate the fact that 4 people died in Benghazi but have no problem that over 5000 were killed in Iraq.
For the same reason that they froth at the mouth over abortion while cutting food programs for children: because the party has zero ideological consistency at this point.
I like to use the term "sober." If you watch CSPAN, you'll notice that only the guest doctorate speakers are sober, and the congressmen are bored by them. They can't wait to go back to throwing snowballs into the stands and saying "Catch, Mr. President" to make fun of global warming. None of them want to sit around and listen to a climatologist actually talk about the issue.
We have a country of 319 million people, as well as a very large quantity of highly educated people, and we can't even have a Congress where people approach issues in an intellectual manner.
I wish everybody's comments on /sub/politics had this much blue link in it.
No, but it keeps the base outraged, incensed, and mobilized to vote - which is all they've needed for decades. And all they'll continue to need if voter apathy is a one-sided thing.
A more rational conservative might tell you that their theory is that Obama/Hillary knew that it was a terrorist attack after it happened, but told officials to characterize it as a spontaneous response to a video to avoid looking weak on foreign policy during the late stages of the 2012 Presidential campaign (which is ridiculous, because Romney was the one getting backlash for politicizing the attacks the day of).
A less rational conservative would tell you that Obama/Hillary knew about the risk of an attack and decided not to send additional troops, or that the entire thing was false-flag. I don't think you need me to tell you how batshit insane that is.
oh yeah and only one 9/11 investigation, with 28 pages still redacted. god forbid americans learn the difference between salafi and shiite, its better for us to just know the difference between the five color-coded threat levels, oh and to see , asking Americans to please be paranoid of each other. during this time 'intelligence' officials were trading "muhammed raghead" emails with one another, but we wouldnt know this if whistleblowers didnt put their lives at risk.
did you know that we have shit heads in power right now?
Of course the comments are insane - do you know any conservatives that are rational?
It's all about emotions. They are pissed off because they lost twice and want to punish obama/usa for losing. There is not one conservative that care about this country over their little parties (tea/gop). Think about it: They are mostly fundies who love Israel over the US and are praying daily for Jesus to come back and kill off most the human race. The want this. They live for it.
We're not dealing with sane or rational people. Not one, not one anywhere, will stand up and call BS on things like this, Iraq, etc because they have no courage and no principles. They just have getting on their knees for their party and to pray for god to punish/kill all the sinners.
I have had to shout at so many people using Sean as a reason to not vote for Hillary. It pisses me off to no end that people use him to push their agenda.
No I'm pretty sure slavery is, or how the US handled Native Americans. These current republicans are a shame, but no where near the greatest.
Under Reagan, 241 marines dead in a suicide truck attack in Lebanon.
Under Bush: 9/11 -- 3,000 dead Americans; Iraq war -- Over 4,000 dead Americans; A dozen consulate and embassy attacks with over 50 victims.
But Benghazi, and four dead Americans? To Republicans and conservatives, THIS is the great scandal and apparently the worse event in the last thirty years.
I know more than one person who is still holding firm to Obama is the antichrist. They think he's going to wait until his term is up to declare himself emperor and usher in the end days.
Right now we have a group of radical religious fundamentalist that's been trying to take over the middle east with brutal violence and no respect for human life. They consist of crazy people who never will listen to reason, and they are powerful.
They are called Republicans
Wasn't the budget for those extra troops cut by Republicans?
I know a ton of people who have these same thoughts. You start a conversation about it and you realize no amount of logic/reasoning can compete with dem dank anti-Obama Facebook memes they have been seeing for the past 7 years. When one starts telling you Wikipedia is a "fake" website, you realize it is a useless conversation. I don't even care any more. I used to follow politics pretty closely but I got so jaded from comments in articles like this and what other people say I just stepped back from it for my own sanity.
Their ideology is social Darwinism. They think if the children's parents can't afford to feed them, then they don't deserve to eat.
Yeah I think that snowball stunt more than anything in recent memory was the most epiphanic for me. It was like "Ohhhhh I get it, these people are stupid". Popular, but stupid nonetheless. And they know how to appeal to other people who don't like to think, i.e over half of America.
This. These extreme conservatives have thrown a Molitov Cocktail into the American political dialogue, and forced normal, educated and tolerant people out by the pure repugnant nature of it all. I used to be interested in politics, and now I find it nauseating.
o7 Vile Rat you will not be forgotten
Racism, and watching someone of the race you dislike achieving the highest position of power in the land, will do amazing things to people's minds. It's probably been very traumatic these last 6 years for racists.
Correct! The GOP defunded embassy/consulate security only a few years prior but this little detail is left out in insane rants.
The Republicans just seem to be much better at political fuckery.
Most of them aren't stupid, but they are aware that:
The people who lobby them really appreciate not having environmental regulations affect their profit margins.
The people who vote for them have an opposition to Obama that, at this point, is more religious than most versions of Christianity.
Honestly, I'm fine with it in substance, every government is going to have corruption, especially when you have a nation with so many uneducated voters. What I don't like is that they make it a circus. Throwing a snowball into the stands to "disprove" global warming, is beyond stupid. I don't have an adequate vocabulary to describe how stupid it is.
If you're going to be like that, at least have a sober discussion and say something like "despite what the President may have us believe, the warming in climate that scientists observe does not have any proven link to carbon emissions." Throwing a fucking snowball? Throwing a fucking snowball?
I'm not a Democrat, but the GOP reps are the only ones I see acting like childish idiots at a circus. Which is a shame, because there's nobody left to stand up for actual conservative values. It's just liberals versus retards.
I imagine he implied currently, if not, continue on.
Can any American's chime in for a non-US redditor
What do they think happened in Benghazi? I have a rough idea that a facility was attacked and a couple of American's killed. But what are they claiming happened that was so bad it involved the president?
I don't understand why the conservatives on here hate the fact that 4 people died in Benghazi but have no problem that over 5000 were killed in Iraq
I think the answer is obvious: they don't fucking care! It's 100% about "I want to win, I want my way, only my way only, only, mine. Mine! MINE! I WIN I WIN I WIN I WIN NO MATTER WHAT TIMES INFINITY PLUS ONE MILLION!"
Its not about changing minds or clearing the air. Its about saying the same thing over and over so they don't hear any new stories about what Obama is doing great at or any other stories about Republican failures. The GOP is just putting fingers in millions of people's ears and going LALALALALALA
I know a similar person unfortunately. She literally believes that he's actually a terrorist deliberately trying to destroy America. And I know for a fact that fox news warped her mind that way. She consumes no other media.
In 1982, the US sent troops to Lebanon as part of the Multinational Force to serve as peacekeepers in the midst of the Lebanese Civil War. On October 23, 1983, a suicide bomber drove a truck into the compound that housed American and French soldiers, killing 241 American servicemen (220 Marines, 18 sailors, 3 soldiers), 58 French paratroopers and 6 civilians.
The Department of Defense immediately started an investigation, which was released in December 1983 (PDF).
In February 1984, the US started pulling its military force out of Lebanon. The Italians pulled out shortly after and the last French soldiers left at the end of March 1984.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth managed to paint Kerry as a traitorous soldier before he managed to define himself. The endless BENGHAZII!!!! is an attempt by the same groups to do the same to Clinton.
A lot of people support Israel because of the role it plays in the Book of Revelations, not because they have particularly fond feelings towards Jews or Israelis.
o7 Vile Rat
Read my other comment reply holy crap they literally think Obama is a terrorist and created ISIS wow.
To the people who keep saying that both parties are equally shit - this is just one tiny piece in the huge avalanche of evidence that they're not equally shit, although they are both shit. But one party revels in it an order of magnitude greater. And it's hard to argue that Fox "News" isn't a part of that political machine in a way that no other media outlet is.
I ain't no big fan of Obama either and not a huge fan of the aca (better than nothing to get the ball rolling). Some of his policies and decisions I can certainly complain about. But, yeah, these people are just plain nuts. If he looks the wrong way while at the podium they run off screaming he is a commie mooslim who took all the border patrol away and threw open the border for ebola laden kids trained by isis.
I don't take the right serious anymore and will never, ever, in my whole life vote for a republican (which I did up until 2004, including raising some funds for ole bush).
It's like some virus from space landed on earth and took over their minds and erased critical thinking skills, courage, honesty, etc. It makes me regret saying I ever voted for them in the past. Was i that dumb or was the party a little different last century?
My conservative parents' response to that is "Then they should've taken money from another consulate's budget to beef up security in those regions like Benghazi. Consulates in places without threats." I told them I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, but it doesn't matter.
Can you imagine if Hillary wins it all? My god, their heads will explode. Bet you they make a run on gun stores again swearing by all they deem holy that like Obama she WILL take all the guns. Not that she wants to, no logic on how she could if she wanted to, but that she will. And the suckers will believe it like they did with Obama.
Of course someone will come along and say "But Obama was in favor of the awb" yeah...that's a long way from he "will" take all your guns - which is what some still claim.
Not rational humans and the type who make america look dumb as hell.
Yeah but those weren't American civilians so they hardly even count.
He posted the "Got a Crazy Forwarded Political Email from Your Family?" thread on SA and it's deeply ironic that he became the subject of the exact kind of bullshit he hated :(
Yeah, but I think that's what makes the GOP so scary. Looking at the past 30 years, Obama and Hilary are both centrist candidates. Republicans have drifted so far right that even centrist candidates appear to them as left wing nut jobs.
Which means cons will try to get him replaced with someone more nutty. Tea party folks especially can't handle reason and logic. It's all about how they 'feel' about someone.
It's like some virus from space landed on earth and took over their minds and erased critical thinking skills, courage, honesty, etc. It makes me regret saying I ever voted for them in the past. Was i that dumb or was the party a little different last century?
I sympathize for you, but the GOP has been pretty bad since 1980 or so, but probably has gotten much worse.
Barry Goldwater and his friends were pretty nuts. Reagan was, in retrospect, pretty bad from a policy perspective. But at least some Republicans were trying. There were true moderates and even a few liberals. GHW Bush nominated an asshole assholes for the supreme court, but the ADA was a good thing, and he honestly believed in international institutions, and raised taxes because he thought it was right. It was really Newt Gingrich and the Dole campaign for president that marked the full transition to "oh, fuck it, we don't need things to work, we just need to defeat the Democrats."
E.g., the opposition to Clintoncare was just plain B.S. with a Heritage foundation "plan" never meant to be enacted, just to show that there was an alternative (which turned into Obamacare, spawn of the devil.) Newt actually dismantled all sorts of Congressional infrastructure ensuring that Congress could understand things and make good decisions, in favor of "we can outsource that to conservative thinktanks." He removed sane budget and debt limit policy in favor of the annual clusterfuck we have now where we risk outright default because Republicans refuse to do math. GWB blew up all the hard work the Clinton administration had done to balance the budget, and Alan Greenspan gave him the green light to do so.
What's very different now is that they have an organized alternative reality of Fox, right-wing radio, and fund-raising that fuels the crazy base more efficiently than ever before. Virtually nobody in the entire journalistic sphere actually is willing to call crazy people crazy. The most they will say are that lunatics are just "positioning themselves" for an eternal campaign, not admitting they are completely fucking everything up.
Hardly count? As people they literally do not even count at all.
Zero. Zilch. The only consideration they have at all is their PR value. The lower they can make the number the better. The real number doesn't matter at all. Its only meaning is a figure to be minimised to reduce the PR impact. I'm not even exaggerating.These conservatives don't feel a single iota of guilt about that. The needle doesn't twitch Hundreds of thousands of people.
It's not about drowning out other stories, it's in itself a psychological form of disinformation - essentially a proof by assertion attack. Just repeat the lie endlessly and sort of reinforces itself; after all, if no one's still denying it for the 500th time, then it must be true!
More shameless, for sure.
I want at least $150 million dollars worth more of investigations and hearings.
I want the entire chain of events documented, second-by-second and plotted in a 3D timeline of actions, decisions, locations. Who was eating what, where, at what cost. The whole 9 yards.
Don't forget hannity! That guy beats off to Benghazi. I listen to his radio show sometimes (nothing else on in central Texas) and he literally mentions Benghazi about once every thirty minutes. Minimum.
Sorry for your loss and contortion of your friends death for personal gain.
This comment made me think about the way Fox News has changed, especially around my area.
I live in the Panhandle of Texas, which is predominantly a very conservative area. Before Obama became President, any place of business that had a TV with the news on, retail stores, banks, restaurants and cafes, ALWAYS had Fox News on. Without fail. It was just a given.
However, over the last 5 or 6 years, that's started to change. All of a sudden, I started seeing CNN and gasp! even MSNBC!
Just goes to show that even your average conservative realizes that Fox News has gone off of the deep end.
I'm pretty sure with all their whizbang media know how and tanks ISIS is getting funding from the Saudis as well, who for some reason conservatives would rather keep throwing money at rather than to develop alternative energy sources.
This is the crux of the problem -- the Republican party is rooting for you to become disgusted with them.
It's like they literally believe Obama is a terrorist and that's insane.
They believe the crap crammed down their throat by Fox News, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh. They also love having something to base their racism on as well.
A more rational conservative might tell you that their theory is that Obama/Hillary knew that it was a terrorist attack after it happened
....and when you really distil the argument down, you can get them to argue about how an "act of terror" is different than "terrorist act".
At which point you realize these people are fucking insane.
Or what about the 87 people who were killed in embassy and consulate attacks under Bush? Fox News and the GOP don't seem to be doing any extended hang-wringing over them...
I mentioned those 87 to my great aunt, in the midst of one of her 'Obama is the antichrist!' tirades, and her only response was "there are none so blind as those who will not see." The irony. The beautiful, beautiful irony...
The Rep from Maine who didn't join the Tom Cotton letter seems relatively sane.
They're upset that this is the most boring President they had to deal with. No scandals, controversies, only their own manufactured bubble of nonsense. Remember the jobs report? Yeah, Obama twisted those numbers too to make himself look good. Birth Certificate? Oh they faked that too.
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on Iraq's WMDs.
In talking to a co-worker, who is among the batshit insane, I have developed the feeling that this is the only issue that they have to fight against Hillary. I have essentially used your argument that. . ."it was only four people, compare that to the thousands killed when W went to war. . ."
Not to mention $2T-$3T.
This was a huge turning point in the use of terror attacks against the West. Arguably the first use of a suicide car-bomb. And then Reagan turned and ran, demonstrating the attack's usefullness. One could make the argument that the Beirut attack was the seed that grew into the forest of subsequent terror attacks, culminating in 9/11.
The most baffling thing to me, is not that they want to destroy her but that they think this could somehow become the issue that destroys her. Even if they could prove she massaged the talking points or she personally kept security lax that day, it's still a misdemeanor charge, it's not even a scandal. Why would you possibly spend 4+ years on a topic that never even has a hope of getting the voter's attention?
edit: Hillary is going to absolutely steamroll whoever she faces in the general election (probably Rand Paul).
Yeah was genuinely shocked the first time I met somebody like that. Actually thought they where being ironically hyperbolic to show how insane the right has gotten. But no, they are just genuine nuts.
OP defunded embassy/consulate security
We rate his claim Mostly False.
Propaganda is a scary thing.
Well really, it's all they've got. Their ideas have failed consistently so now it's down to a sort of scorched-earth policy of defaming the other side for even ordering a fucking burrito.
Literally anything can and will be used as ammo against their opponents.
Edit: words cuz I'm dum.
I keep hearing people say that they don't believe the government report on institutional racism in Ferguson's police force. Yet they use the same government reports to show that the cop was justified in his shooting.
The cognitive dissonance is scary.
Because they're mentally ill, literally.
The second survey published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006. More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% (186,318) of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% (144,246) to others, and 46% (276,472) unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56% or 336,575), car bomb (13% or 78,133), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13% or 78,133), accident (2% or 12,020), and unknown (2%).
Lancet says you're misunderestimating with another zero. Off by only an order of magnitude.
Or those pesky Iraqi WMD's.
So In the comment section of this article people state that Obama created ISIS using the Benghazi incident as the start of it.
The group started in 1999, before it was called ISIS, by a Jordanian and was renamed the Islamic State of Iraq in 2006, and Benghazi happened in 2012, so that means... yep, that clears it, Obama created the ISIS out of the rubble of the American compound and CIA outpost. s/
First. I'm not voting republican, but Hillary voted to go to Iraq. Her top contributors are all from way right origins. She is not the savior. New liberal candidate please. I'm hoping Bernie endorses a younger candidate with his ideals
There were protests in other cities over the anti-Islam video, but not in Benghazi. The consulate was attacked and overrun, killing 2 Americans. Then, 2 more died hours later. There were no assets to send for rescue; they maybe could have sent the military assets from Tripoli but that would have left the embassy unguarded. So, in the confusion of the following few days, some CIA people said it was a spinoff of violence elsewhere, which there clearly was violence in other cities, dozens died in the protests. Other CIA said no, it was a planned attack. Susan Rice went on TV a few days after and said the best info they had was it stemmed from the video protest in Cairo, which the CIA told her to say, backed up by the House Intelligence Committee report. Republicans say no, she lied. A couple weeks later Obama spoke at the UN about the video and subsequent protestssssss. I emphasize multiple protests because Obama was clearly talking about protests in other cities, which did happen. Republicans say he was blaming the Benghazi attack on the video, though. They accuse the Administration of knowing the attack was possible but not adding security, and not sending help during the attacks.
Republicans don't want to give out contraception, they don't want abortions, and they don't want to help poor families with their kids.
You'd almost think the GOP had some kind of gay agenda...
Ignorance is even scarier
Isn't it weird that they support Israel, but are also the ones convinced that the Jews are part of some Leftist conspiracy?
Any day now evidence is going to appear, just like any day now we will find evidence of UFO's
If any of the numbers are correct it is fucking terrifying!
Logic can't melt Benghazi Investigations.
Conservatives really know how to play on people's insecurities. It's like they take the lower third percentile of intelligence and convince them that scientists are trying to trick them with all their smart talk, and they fall for it hook line and sinker. Intelligent discourse and objectivity will always be lost on some people. The sad part is that the people actually lying to them are the ones they're voting for.
We've all going to be laughing until CNN accidentally invents star trek holograms. Then humanity dies off in about 85 years.
You underestimate them when you call them stupid. You're talking about successful individuals who will do what they have to to get and hold power. That jackass with the snowball understands the difference between climate and weather, but he also knows where his bread is buttered. He's pandering, just not to us.
3D timeline of actions
I bet CNN has one of these already.
And do not forget about the copious amounts of depleted uranium we have scattered across their country