As a Canadian reading about a recent American health care post

As a Canadian reading about a recent American health care post
As a Canadian reading about a recent American health care post

They'll charge you $95,000 even if they DON'T make you healthy.

I just got to Australia(I live in the States), and I dislocated my shoulder. I went to a physio, and he recommended an MRI for $250. In the States an MRI costs 2.5k Or more.

+1 from the UK, I know the NHS isn't perfect but at least I don't have to remortgage my house for a consultation

Actually, they'd charge you twice. Once for the mistake, and again for the correction.

They actually killed me in the hospital due to a procedure gone wrong that I didn't need. I was killed by a doctor, revived by nursing staff (dead 3 minutes), then charged $6000 for the procedure and subsequent resuscitation. EDIT: for those wondering or those in the medical field. Neurologist did a spinal tap on me while i was in an upright position, after a day of severe headaches. Pressure in my cranium caused "Coning" when the spinal fluid was withdrawn. "coning" usually results in instant and irreversible death from the brain stem hitting the base of the skull. When I died and fell over the needle was still in my spine and bent to 90 degrees.

That's how much they bill. That's how how much people pay or how much the provider will receive.


I agree, but our own health care system is struggling to operate on ever dwindling government funding as well. Not only are short cuts the norm now, but we're constantly rationing lifesaving procedures and medications and doling it out in such meager portions that really, we just delay the tipping of the scales between disease and health for everyone instead of making sure those that can be healthy get healthy.

Not sure what the solution is, but the problem most definitely is the fact that modern medicine costs an absolute fortune for each individual treated.

The thing that grinds my gears is that after years of underfunding and abuse people think making the NHS like the US model is a good idea. The NHS is just fine, if it was properly funded and run it would be world class.

I live in America and payed $15 (co-pay) for an MRI, with insurance. I had a Tonsillectomy and payed maybe $100 including meds. Doctor's gouge the insurance companies because they have to get money somehow. Doctor's in Australia charge a normal amount because they know they will get the money when a patient comes in for treatment.

We're not incredibly wealthy. It's the standard insurance provided through my Mom's job with the county government. A good amount of Americans don't want to pay for other people that they don't perceive to work as hard as themselves.

edit: Yes, I know you guys all have different health care providers. I don't agree with the last point fully either.

Everyone say it with me.

Charges are not the same as paid.

When you met Obama?

Nice, a Canadian making a Trailer Park Boys reference.

What? We pay in taxes to take care of that. The same with police. You're comparing a fucking slave and a doctor...I feel like you should rethink your comment.

We could pay doctors very well and still not bankrupt people when they get sick. It's the shareholders demanding huge ROI's every quarter that is the problem. You'd be surprised how little of that 95K goes to the actual doctor.

Can't tell if it's a question, but that's how much I pay, with out insurance.

Turns out free healthcare isn't actually free. It only works until you run out of money.

ER abuse is a huge issue. People come in for a cold and then don't pay the bill.

Well yeah, it will continue to be an issue as long as healthcare remains a capitalist system. For people who can't afford insurance, the ER is their general practitioner. They're gonna die in debt anyway, so why should they care if they're straining the system.

That actually seems kinda low. (Can't believe I'm saying that)

modern medicine costs an absolute fortune for each individual treated

This is a fair point. Ever look up the cost of an MRI machine? And then the cost of installing it? Lots of modern medicine is overpriced (drugs), but other areas are highly specialized and expensive by their nature.

On top of that, hospitals are struggling, too. Our local hospital will only recoup about 3% of its past-due bills (about $810k out of $27mil). Why not charge less? Because they have to pay for medical equipment, medicine, and the hundreds of medical professionals who will leave if they cut their pay too much.

Source: wife in upper management at said hospital.

In the states they charge like 300 bucks for a bag of saline and a line.

No, actually in my Mexican brain I just assumed all Canadians watch that and Kids In The Hall reruns every night while eating Poutine and Kraft Dinner.

Did you meet Jesus? It's $10,000 to meet Obama. So you got a good deal, maybe.

Only saw instant blackness.

Because in the US, Healthcare is a business first before a service. Just like higher education. Hell a hospital isnt even allowed to open up without the approval of other hospitals in the region. Guess what happens if the new hospital tries to charge less than other ones in the area? They shut it down before construction even begins because they would lose money to it.

One issue I have with the NHS (sort of ironically) is that its completely free to go to the doctor. Norway obviously also has stellar health care, but going to see a doctor costs line 15£ or something which I think turns out to be a good thing. This has a cap so if you spend over a certain amount in 1 year (like around 150-200£ iirc?) it becomes free, and obviously if someone legitimately can't afford it they still get treatment. But the issue when it is completely free is that the system gets clogged as im sure some people just take it as an invitation to use it for almost no reason.

I had to see a physiotherapist because of an arm injury that was severely impacting my job, waited like a week or two for the GP appointment, they basically referred so i could a send a letter to another entity under NHS, so they could put me on a list where I needed to wait another 6 weeks before I could even book an appointment. Then after waiting for 6 weeks on that list, you call back and are now able to book an appointment, which again has a wait time of over a month.

One thing the UK does better than Norway though is subsidiesed dental care. In norway only kids or young people get free/cheap dental :(

Nah. Australia has a partial pay system. For example, most of the cost of that MRI is paid for by the government, there's just a bit extra you have to pay on top (to stop people abusing the system and getting MRI's for everything).

so... what you're saying is basically, that you're jealous of our freedom?

Because you're paying for people who don't. ER abuse is a huge issue. People come in for a cold and then don't pay the bill. Hospitals need to get that money somehow

Not saying the health care system in America doesn't blow or anything, it totally does. But it really grinds my gears that I'm going to be $300k in debt by the time I'm out of medical school and that I'll barely be making minimum wage for the first 4 years after I graduate. I would like to be compensated fairly after that, thank you very much.

To be fair though, medication prices are goddamn ridiculous.

Because Canadian doctors work for pats on the back? You're getting charged that $95k, it's just pulled from your paycheck, pre-tax, and amortized over a looonnnggg period (like your entire working life). You don't get "free" healthcare up there.

The unspoken fact about the price of healthcare in the US is that the price isn't the price. The insurance company doesn't pay the full price.

Every insurance company has a different price for how much an MRI should cost. One company says $1000, the other company says $1,200. The hospital doesn't want to change $1000 and miss out on the extra $200 so they will just charge $2000 and accept whatever amount comes in.

Meanwhile if you were to call them an negotiate they would probably accept $600.

If I got half of what I billed, I would make 3.5x my salary. I would make my annual salary, pre tax in 9.3 weeks.

I have ceo's and coo's and other executives that I swear only function to nitpick the wording in use when i speak to patients. These executives make much more than the providers and everywhere I have worked in my 12 years in healthcare, they simply serve to squeeze dollars out of patients. The places with a large corporate overhead don't provide the best care, just the most expensive... Don't even get me started on my argument about "quality/high end care" that leaves patients walking out the door because they can't afford it. You treat every patient that walks into your door, whether you render care or not.

It was 10 years ago, the rest of the bill is not in that amount.

All that American R&D that Canada gets for cheap has to get paid for some how.

This. I had a $2500 ER bill (just from the doctor, not the hospital) and insurance paid $450. I had $0 responsibility.

Free/cheap dental will actually save money in the long run, as would free eye exams as it is preventative medicine. Usually an eye doctor or dentist will identify serious health issues early.

To be honest, no education should cost $300K. There's a sickness in U.S education too!

Oh excuse me, you dropped this:


The government pays less per person for Healthcare in Canada (US$3,678 in 2006) than the US government pays per capita (US$6,714). So you are wrong. We (canadians) do not pay for that 95,000, but you Americans do, and on top of that you also pay for more Healthcare by taxes.

Sorry, but are you like 8?

And private healthcare only works when you have money in your wallet to pay for it. The ACA/Obamacare is a form of private healthcare with an injection of public funds. Before the ACA insurance companies heavily relied on keeping costs low by being able to charge sick people more or denying them care or even denying them coverage after a certain amount of money was spent on them or if they lapsed insurance coverage with a pre-existing condition.

The first thing my lecturer told me when I attended an open day for my first degree was

"Don't be fooled. University education is a business."

Can I get a refund if the treatment doesn't Work? Maybe some store credit or something at least?

You know how much I had to pay for all of that in Canada? $0. I cannot afford $45000 for medical bills. If what you had happened to me, I would be bankrupt and would not receive the care. Just because you are able to afford $45000 to save your life doesn't mean others can. Any amount of money required to save my life is too much.

And that would be less or nothing if you were on Medicare. :)

The problem is that we have a government that will regulate health care to create monopolies for the highest bidders. Once you have a monopoly that is only enforceable through government force you can charge whatever you want instead of letting the free market set prices.

Here's the recent post,

Apparently it's not normal to get insurance to actually pay. What the fuck! (Sorry for formatting)

A proton therapy machine used in radiotherapy for certain cancer treatments costs around $150,000,000. That's just upfront costs. Therapies for radiation oncology can easily be in the six and seven figure range.

What do patients pay?

Many pay nothing.

They're charged millions of dollars and pay nothing.

In theory that's the point of insurance. In reality insurance is hiking costs

Why is the government not providing us with healthcare, what is this some kind of Communist dictatorship or something??

Nope, but we can try a second treatment for the same price.

Pharmaceuticals maybe, but that's another problem in itself.

I think the sarcasm is apparent enough.

Is that unusual? Most Canadians have watched or at least heard of the show.

This is a common fallacy, but in fact Americans go to the doctor far less than most developed nations.

I live in Canada and have had a majority of these things done, maybe not to this extent. But I paid 0.

And a lot of the jobs you mentioned involved were barely involved to the point of not being worth mentioned..

medical supplies


For what 5 minutes of work to collect your cocktail of drugs?

the idea of being in debt 45,000 to be healthy is ridiculous.

Now imagine you didn't have to pay, got healthy for FREE and had 45,000 more in the bank!

Who'da thunk Obama was real all this time

Advice every child should get.

There's a reason they offer so many English degrees. It isn't because you will get solid preparation for a lucrative career. It's because an English degree makes a shitload of money and requires zero expensive lab equipment.

This i dont believe. In my city in Ontario they just built a new mental health building thats huge and the guy running the one of two hospitals that had the new building recieved a million dollar plus bonus in the same year they fired a bunch of nurses claiming lack of funds.

His salary was in the news... It was disgusting to read. He even had a luxury car paid for as part of his salary. ... So I think its more complicated than that.

Hell, as a student member of the aato we had a tour of the new building... Not built on the cheap.

Did you sue the shit out of them?

Before the ACA, around 2005 I hurt my foot really badly during a construction project and the X-Ray was billed at $4,800 or so. After 6 months of negotiations and several threats of collections they settled for $2,000 paid in full. I agreed and moved on. I didn't have insurance that year because my business was doing poorly and I was cutting money everywhere.

Then in 2012 I was running and I felt like I had damaged the same foot that was damaged in 05. I had insurance which complies with the ACA with no Subsidies and pay nearly $300 a month for it. I had an X-Ray and was billed $3500 and my insurance settled it for $200.

It's insane how much the system robs us...

Doctors don't actually gouge anyone. They don't set prices or billing s paradigms; Medicare does that. They as individuals don't negotiate with insurance companies, hospitals and large multi specialty groups do because organizations have leverage. Doctors code their work, but don't send the bills, the billing people do that. There is literally zero formal education on any aspect of medical finance required to become licensed as a doctor and complete a degree program. I'm not sure how doctors get blamed for the cost, they work for the system they exist in, have a meek and underfunded lobby and little to no control over it. There are rarely those that exploit the system illegally like generating documentation for care that doesn't happen, but 99% of the time they are living humble lives of service, give up nights and weekends and holidays to provide 24/7/365 care for people and accept what they get paid which is $40-120 an hour after overhead which is far less than what comparably trained professionals make in other disciplines. The waste in the system comes from futile and unnecessary end of life heroism, federal bonus money paid to academic centers so that they can build newer and bigger buildings, profit margins staff and marketing for pharmaceutical and device industries, and overpriced medications. What the doctors charge and make is a peanut.

My brother is a doctor, wife is a nurse. You deserve what you earn after med school (up to a point). Doctors aren't to blame here.

People bitch that having universal healthcare would mean more taxes taken out of their paycheck; but don't complain about having to spend hundreds of dollars a month for health insurance.

they gave me a medication I had a severe anaphylactic reaction to twice because no one believed me when I said I hadn't eaten anything new. I had to go through the list of meds myself. The second time they didn't know it happened for five hours because no one really bothered to check on me. I as charged thousands of dollars for an extra half a week in the hospital and two trips to the emergency room because the first time they said it was "just" a severe respiratory infection. I had to wait an hour and a half for someone to take me down to the emergency room a second time even tho I was crying violently vomiting and begging them to help me because they were understaffed. I could barely stand at that point because there was painful swelling and hives all over my body including the soles of my feet. I was in the hospital in the first place because I tried to kill myself and while I was there they almost killed me

That's irony on something Rand Paul said

It's been posted on Reddit yesterday if I'm not mistaken

It's very often because they have zero dollars to spend at that given moment and can't go to a quick care place that will charge them $200.

You know your the only first world country without universal healthcare right? Do you think we enslave doctors in canada? Do you think german and british surgeons are chained to the floor in their operating theaters? We have whats called a single insurer system, where the government is that insurer. Lots of doctors work for publically funded hospitals, but plenty work at privately owned practices where they simply bill the government for services rendered.

Actually it's even more sinister than that. These laws are written so that the government can't bargain for lower prices so we end up eating the incredible markup on drugs. Since the people need the drugs, they mark up the prices because Medicare/Medicaid/the ACA plans will pay for it. Meanwhile the private and company plans end up not being able to cover a lot of the same items without raising the premiums. So now the prices for literally everything goes up because companies figured out they can raise prices and the taxpayer will pay for it. It's fucking despicable

Outside of the exchange rate, they're charging 95K in Canada as well. Just because it doesn't come from your pocket doesn't make it free.

Found the guy trying to rationalize the fucked up healthcare system in this country

do a Schindler's List type accounting

Did you and I see the same movie?

Im done i cant read this thread anymore.

They heard Rand Paul talk.

The comments are baffling. Like, deciding between your health or losing all your savings or even being bankrupt!?

And the surgeon who performs the procedure will see only a few hundred dollars of that money. The hospital will make thousands. That's what people don't understand. Everyone gets frustrated with the doctors and they aren't the ones who you need to be frustrated with.

They don't. Google image search "Cuban hospital." Cuba compiles those stats.

Yeah my mom died to cancer when I was 11. Almost 30 now and guess who still is feeling the effects of the bill.

Edit: It's my dad, folks. My dad is still paying.

You're being down voted, but there is a lot of truth to this:

This imbalance can certainly be perceived as other countries’ freeloading, Kolassa, a former director of pricing and economic policy at the drug company Sandoz, said. He recalled negotiating drug prices with foreign governments, some of whom refused outright to buy certain drugs if they were priced too high, even if doing so reduced contributions to R&D. “They knew the U.S. would cover it,” he said.

a lot of it is also education. The ER can't turn anyone away as it might be an emergency and people go to the ER for everything because they don't know any better.

"/s" is a surefire way to kill any humor in a sarcastic post

Why would anyone buy into that idea? That is literally an incoherent thought, it doesn't connect to anything in our reality.

People bitch that having universal healthcare would mean more taxes taken out of their paycheck; but don't complain about having to spend hundreds of dollars a month for health insurance

$8k/year for my daughter and I, and that is for pretty shitty insurance with pretty high co-pays. If my taxes went up $8k a year, but I had 0 co-pays for any health issues, I would pay it.

Apparently it's not normal to get insurance to actually pay.

No, they normally pay. Occasionally insurance finds some way to not pay, but the norm is insurance covering.

Do you understand how universal health care works?

Depends who you go to. Plenty of places bulk bill anyone.

canadian here ... never much cared for either. I'm more of an SCTV guy

We are the richest country on the planet 0.1% of us are the richest country on the planet


The US must be the stupidest country in the world if:

Anyone believes that nonsense

After said that nonsense, people still gave a shit about anything else he had to say instead of being completely discredited

if this guy still has a job in politics

Here's the recent post, Apparently it's not normal to get insurance to actually pay. What the fuck!


Edit.... -> changed it to just the reddit link.

$95g for cancer treatment is NOTHING. it can be hundreds of thousands.

Also have to factor in the employer ethic of "If you have a cold, you have to work. If you miss work, you have to go to the doctor or you don't have a job." So many places operate this way now - little to no regard for human health and wellness.

Healthcare costs money. Someone has to pay. Whether you stick an individual withe the bill or distribute the cost to everyone the money has to come from somewhere.

Not sure about government spending, but per capita spending (includes both public and private spending) in the US is easily twice what Canadians pay:

Our two countries used to track roughly equally on this measure until the 1980s when American healthcare costs started increasing at a much higher rate.

In that same thread someone said their appendectomy costed 50,000. A fucking appendectomy.

I think you're conflating how much it COST and how much you PAID.

You're right, but it's not doctors who gouge the insurance companies, it's their bosses.

doctors in Americs make 5 times the amount the make in europe. Plus their waiting lists are minimal compared to europe.

The price is higher and you have to pay for insurance, but their taxes are on average way lower so even paying an insurance most people make more at the end of the month that many of us europeans.

Its not all black and white, and americas health care is no exception

They certainly don't here in Canada and every other place with good universal healthcare.

2.5k for a fucking MRI? Seesh, and I get angry when I have to pay $150 for my MRI because they aren't covered by Medicare. On the bright side tomorrow I'm getting an ultrasound and xray on my right shoulder followed by an xray on my left knee. I'm not going though my private health insurance and it's still costing me nothing.

You know what i have to pay for that in Sweden? 0. Because we don't let people go in to a lifetime of debt because they had the unfortune of getting sick or an accident.

The update is the scans / tests were clear, probably ruling out cancer and most of the really scary shit. I feel extremely grateful.

Family debt can't be passed on a deceased family member to a living one. You are not responsible for any debt taken out in her name.

How did her debt get in your name?

Thank God we elected someone who wrote a book on how to privatise the NHS as our health secretary.

Not sure why the downvote. It sucks the first few years, but after the 10th year out (a reasonable number), you should have passed everyone in your age group (or at least caught up). And after that, you will be much, much, much farther in the green then most everyone else.

Yes. The first few years suck. But after that you're riding the easy train.

Average debt from a public medical school ~ $207k Average debt from a public medical school with grants/scholarship ~ $170k 1st year after residency for Internal Medicine: General ~ $185k

Again, doctors get their money back and then some very quickly after residency. Don't feel sorry for a doctor.

TIL: Police are slaves. No wonder they shoot so many people /s

No, Australia's public health system is called Medicare. It is not the same as the Medicare or Medicaid in America. A non resident isn't entitled to Medicare benefits in Australia.

But it also doesn't cost $95k up there to start with. The tax base has to pay something in the region of $60k vs $95k spread across private and public funding in the US.

Costs are higher in the US. Some believe this is because there is no single payer keeping the prices down.

doctors in Americs make 5 times the amount the make in europe. Plus their waiting lists are minimal compared to europe.

You're jumbling up a whole bunch of statistics, on purpose, to make an intentionally misleading "point."

I gauranfuckingtee the trauma surgeons at the hospital don't work 24 shifts and just kinda...doobedobeedoo...only take a few patients.

There is a big gap between slavery and 95k

As an australian, you're right. That one strike 30 years ago definitely outweighs the benefits of universal healthcare. The wiki page on the costs of healthcare in the USA says that a lack of health insurance caused about 45,000 preventable deaths in one year...

most facilities in the U.S. are privately owned by corporations. The U.S. could drop a ton of costs if it cut out the middle men.

You get what you pay for; most of the best universities in the world are American. Belgium doesn't even crack the top 100.

Its more reasonable than it sounds when you realize the people earning those 300k degrees can make that much, or more, in a year.

As an American small business owner, I would gladly pay higher taxes to have simple, no hassle universal healthcare. By and large in universal systems the taxes cost less than American premiums--unless you're in the top 1% of incomes, in which case you can fucking afford it what with record inequality.

It's actually cheaper than the American system per capita. It delivers better results. And most of all, there's no bullshit. The only disadvantage is waiting a bit longer for non-emergency, elective procedures--and even then you can pay to get private treatment if you have the money, just like in the states.

I have made this choice every single day of my adult life.

I cannot even imagine how it would feel to feel free enough to go see my doctor or end up in the ER without spending two months in abject terror as i wait to see if the bill (i have "good" insurance) will be fair.

By "fair" i mean whether or not i will see tens of thousands in "out of network" charges that i had no control over.

Example: my wife had her gallbladder out. The surgeon asked for an assistant at some point without our consult. The one they used wad out of network. That single bill was 6x the entire rest of the bills that showed up. Had to have my CEO personally escalatw it or the hospital would not have agreed to charge the in network rate. We got lucky.

This is a tragedy.

Source for that?

A night in Canadian ICU with no insurance if you're a traveller is around $20k... Americans insurance and MEd system just sucks.

It's not because you can't bargain for drugs, it's because the government gives pharmaceutical companies a monopoly on new drugs they develop so they can recoup the massive development costs. Pharmaceutical companies can make tons of money, but it's very high risk. They can spend billions developing a cancer drug only to have it not pass certification.

Okay, so, that $95k price is what the provider (hospital, doctor, etc) bills to the insurance. Insurance companies work out pre-arranged percentages of what they will actually pay of that bill.

Hospitals typically see approximately a ten percent reimbursement


Here are a couple of better articles that go in more detail:


In this specific case the insurance company probably paid around $10k which is much more understandable.

The biggest piece of misinformation floating out there is that if you don't have insurance or have really shitty insurance (high deductibles and the like), that a person would have to pay the same amount that was billed to an insurance company. They use different billing systems for people that have to pay a large amount.

I dont think $94,000 (they only had me pay, out of pocket, $45,000) is too much to save my life

Until you realize that most of Europe and the commonwealth countries(Canada, Australia), as well as a ton of other countries, all provide these same service free of charge through a tax system that doesn't benefit private profits.

When everyone pays a little(negligable amount), nobody pays a lot or gets fucked over by insurance companies and shareholders who are trying to increase their revenues every year.

Hell, the only thing we noticeably pay for in canada is prescription drugs and dental, and there are movements to have it added to the healthcare system. The only downside is long wait times for things that aren't an emergency, due to our doctors moving south to get rich quick off your broken system.

Fellow Canadian I know right? Like holy shit.

I agree, but our own health care system is struggling to operate on ever dwindling government funding as well.

By "dwindling" I assume you mean "ever expanding at an unsustainable rate and higher than it ever has been in history"?

Actually, we have to charge you to review our notes about the first procedure first.

But thats really all you might be paying in co-pay if you went with your mom, your parents are still paying premiums and your out of pocket, and deductible. Which granted is between 5,000-15,000 dollars a year for good family insurance, far better than having something bad happen it and costing over 100k.

I have have whats considered a "platinum" level plan as a self employed 29 year old, and I make too much (over 40k a year before taxes) to qualify for tax credits to subsidize my health plan.

I still have to pay a premium of 540 $ a month, with a 1,200 dollar deductible. and out of pocket costs up to a certain amount, and that's not even including dental (I can't afford dental).

And the republicans are fighting any progressive changes in health care tooth and nail, and of course the insurance companies don't mind. Blue Cross Blue Shield over the last 4 years has raised my insurance plan 400% in the last 4 years. So when I signed up it was about 140 a month, which I could deal with. They literally cancelled half of their plans this last year, forcing most people like me to reapply for different insurance, at a higher premium, and higher deductible, with fewer benefits.

so even if something doesn't happen I'm still paying 6,500 dollars a year, if anything happens at all (stitches for instances) I'm paying 7,700 a year, which is 1/4 of my income a year (after I pay taxes).

If something bad happens, or if I'm out of the country, or if I'm even outside of my city I can be looking at incredible bills, I went to the wrong hospital because I had an allergic reaction (wasn't my preferred hospital) and they charged me 9k for observation for 12 hours and liquid benadryl; thats ontop of the normal amount I pay (so really it just cost me about 16k last year for insurance, thats half my income for the year).

I also have student loan debt, mortgage, and other expenses that most people have. I am going into debt because there is no possible way for me to build any liquid savings, which is the only way to expand my business.

I'm standing in a slowly filling pool with weights around my ankles, and I can't get any taller.

Also if I ever needed special home care for an injury or if I needed certain types of rehabilitation it'd be nearly 80-100% out of pocket, which for any serious care can be 50-60k.

Well, given these stats, I highly doubt all hospitals in Cuba are in such horrible conditions.

Infant Morality Rate: Cuba edges the US:

Life expectancy: Cuba right behind US:

Along with Cuba having one of the most cost effective healthcare systems in the world AND the mos...

A big first step would be breaking with neoliberalism and austerity and changing the way production and consumption is organized in this country in such a way that things like Healthcare are prioritized and we stop catering to parasitic elites.

We can do it, its just a question of whether we want to.

More like paying billions in marketing and lobby.

You know what grinds my gears?

That the user-pays health care in the US is the most expensive health care model in the world, and that the Canadian universal heath care model costs the average Canadian less than half what it costs the average American.

You dont know the half of it.

Both my parents are dying of late stage abdominal cancer and i am posting this from the emergency room. Wife has mystery abdominal pain. Been here five hours, seen the doc once for 30s.

If she gets it too, i will care for her until her last breath and then go find a very quiet place in the forest and blow my goddamn head off.

....You are aware that there are countries with universal health care right?

Med student here. In my nearly-educated opinion, you're an idiot.

Not 45k

It's not the size of what they're removing bro, it's the time, training, personnel man hours, equipment, and other resources.

Do you know how insurance works? Do you think what you pay into insurance is perfectly balanced with what insurance pays for your healthcare? These are for profit companies. Hate to break it to you, but insurance is purely subsidizing someone else's care the majority of the time. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be profitable.

Ill pay max. 350/400 euros a year, out of my own pocket for every illness I'll ever get. Still i would get the same treatment and the best care the hospital has to offer.

At the same time my doctors will get a great salary.

health care... who needs it right?

That is absolutely fucked up, bud. I don't get it. Maybe it's ignorance or not a lot of experience, but I've never known anyone with that situation. Glad you got it figured out.

OP, US hospitals itemize EVERYTHING... from MRIs, surgeries and rooms to individual aspirins. The excuse is so it can all be tracked; the truth is so they can treat every, teeny tiny thing as it's own product, which means they can charge more for it. Those two ibuprofen they just gave you to help relax your muscles from the tear? You just paid more for those that you would have for a bottle of 400 IB from the local Walmart. It is a business under the guise of healthcare.

Can hardly imagine how much people are paying for "free" services outside the US.

Less than Americans

Check it out, you pay more for your own healthcare and your government spends over twice as much (per capita) as the UK.

Dude then might as well privatize police. And ambulances. And firemen. And libraries. And everything else people get free via taxes.

Why should I pay for your burning house, right? Wrong.

A poor person who needs a surgery or treatment should not die or suffer because they can't afford it.

This is a basic human right in my eyes.

You think you'll never get sick? Because you will get sick. Most countries noticed this and set up a system whereby you don't risk bankruptcy when you inevitably get sick. Everybody pays for everybody else when they need it. Costs less for everybody that way.

And if you did it properly you're country wouldn't have to either. You let big companies in and take over and now you're reaping the rewards when a CEO jacks the price 600%.

You know what's even worse? People going bankrupt, families destroyed because they ran out of luck, got sick and were unable to pay these insane medical costs.

I'm Belgian, our healthcare systems is one of the best in the world and I'm damn proud to pay taxes for it. Everyone has a right to the best healthcare available and therefore everyone should contribute to it.

alost $5k for a fucking x-ray???

last time i had an x-ray without insurance it cost me literally $5 dollars... US system is fucked

lol, what the fuck are you talking about?

do you think cuba is a dystopia where doctors are held at gun-point in the emergency room? holy fuck

e: I'd just like to seriously clarify how ridiculous this is. Doctors are paid money to do jobs. They aren't fuck drafted or anything. They work because they need money. If you think that's slavery, then it seems pretty fucking hypocritical to get pissed at a welfare state for allowing people to not work to get basic needs.

Replace doctors in that statement with police, firemen, postal workers, teachers, public defenders, judges, senators, congressmen, garbage collectors, water utility workers, electrical utility workers, subsidised farmers, you know, just to name a few. Are any of these considered slaves in america where these services are paid for by the state?

You really think you'll pay that much more in tax? Don't be silly.

Broke my Ankle

X-ray, Cast, 2 lots of surgery loaned me some crutches. Didn't pay anything

Had to pay $30 for my oxy and that was it. Fuckers should have given me the oxy for free

The argument, I'm a safe driver so it will be someone else's fault is as dumb as saying, I work out so i will never get cancer

So what are they, like 8?

I'm going through much the same and am about $600 out of pocket total. One initial consult fee, excess on initial procedure and some maximum script fees. It makes a huge difference to not have to stress about this and im lucky enough to work quite flexibly through this. Imagine how much this stresses people less well off whose work is geatly restricted and their family and partners have to reduce work to look after them.