I get it, but I have to ask what's the scale on the y axis? Has peak happiness been reached?
Nearly. A tablet and/or candy might peak it.
My wife and I have this discussion all the time. I'm happy to just let them play church(ish) games on a tablet, or coloring games. Not Minecraft or anything like that. It keeps them quiet, which is all you can ask for from a 6 and 8 year old. She thinks they can read the Friend if they're bored... They get bored of that real quickly.
How’d that conversation go over?
Back from the brink of losing my testimony completely.
So, I just had a feeling that I should make a quick post here to share my experience of completely losing my testimony, and building it again from scratch. I don't recommend that this is something that anyone do. I have always been "active" in the church in the traditional sense of going to church every Sunday, even though for the majority of my life I have struggled with personal prayer as well as scripture study. I served a mission and returned honorably and always had a testimony, although, I will mention that I'm not sure how much of that testimony was directly my own testimony through and through.
I have only been home from my mission for about four years, but a couple of years after I got off my mission, I started falling upon some anti stuff. What I read, which I will not go into detail about, quickly pulled me down into a dark place that I never wish to be ever again. I came to the personal conclusion in my own mind that the Church wasn't true, and I got to the point that I had read just about every single anti Mormon thing there was to read.
I never went out and did a ton of bad stuff, but I definitely got to the point where my testimony was completely gone. I had even decided that I was atheist and you know what? That is the worst feeling in the world. It is such a dark place to be, and I recommend that you take great care to stay as far away from that place as you can.
I don't remember EXACTLY what brought me back from this state, but It definitely had to do with me reading more of the scriptures and of experiences of early Latter Day Saint prophets and apostles. It started with me wondering, from a point of view similar to that of an "exmormon", why in the world would these men go through so much difficulty and pain just to push something completely fake. More specifically, why in the WORLD would Joseph Smith go through all that he went through just to push a fake religion that he started. He was tortured to the point of eventually being straight up MARTYRED for pete's sake!
I found myself in just complete dumbfounded confusion. Then I was reminded of the only conclusion that ever mattered from this. Like in my favorite talk, Elder Holland says "THEY WOULD NOT DO THAT." Those words entered my mind, and instantly all of my concerns and all of my issues with stuff I had read from anti-Mormon literature didn't matter anymore. They were gone. I had all of the evidence that I needed, and I needed nothing more. The spirit instantly grew in my heart testifying to me of this fact.
I am now engaged and am getting sealedin the Gilbert AZ temple in exactly three weeks from today. I have never been stronger in the gospel, and nothing will ever sway me from the truth. I have read every anti-Mormon issue there is in existence, and though it may have shaken my testimony for a small time, they will never do so again in the future, because I now see them for what they are. They are very crafty attempts from the adversary to bring down as many people as he can with him.
I want to finish this off by testifying to you all that I know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one true church of Christ on the earth, and was organized under the direct influence of Jesus Christ himself. I sustain and support the General Authorities of the Church, and I know that they have been called of God through revelation. I sustain President Russel M. Nelson as Prophet, Seer and Revelator and know him to be the only person to hold all Priesthood keys on the earth at this time.
Lastly, I want to testify that I know that the second coming is on it's way. It is just over the horizon. The signs of this are ample in the world, and it is very important to keep that in mind. We often forget that the end is indeed near. He lives. He lives, and he is on his way. Resist temptation and persecution. Their presence is inevitable, but your strength to do what is right will not be for naught. I testify of these things in the name of our Savior Jesus Christ! I love you all, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day!
Hey I don't know anything about Mormons but this popped on the front page of /sub/all.
I hope you don't mind me chiming but there was something you said in your post that I wanted to address. You said in your post that being an atheist was "the worst feeling in the world" and "the darkest place to be."
As an athiest I feel like I have obligation to refute the notion that being an atheist is a dark place to be or a bad feeling. I can assure that there are billions of atheits on this planet who are not feeling the worst feeling in the world or in deep dark places. And I have to say it's kind of offensive for you to paint other peoples ways of life in that way.
I don't claim to know the first thing about Mormonism but I would never pretend to claim that being Mormon makes a person miserable. I expect it makes most Mormons pretty happy. Which is probably why they do it. So please refrain disparaging others beliefs and lifestyles and be respectful of other points of view the way I am of you.
I assure that there are as many ways to live a happy and fulfilling life as there are people. all 6 billion 999 million 999 thousand 999 human beings on this planet who are not Mormon are doing just fine without Mormonism thank you very much. So let's be respectful of how we choose to live our lives without making assumptions about each others belief systems.
I don't pretend to doubt that you personally were perphaps in a deep dark place. I imagine someone losing their religion and everything they have known and assumed about the world and learning it isn't true can be very depressing.
But it seems a little small minded to tell other people that anyone who doesn't think the way you do is in a deep dark depression and you're the only ones who've got it figured out. That's just an unhealthy way to view the world and your fellow man.
I can assure that there is enough beauty and joy and love and happiness in this world outside the walls of organized religion that you don't need to have all the answers to the universe to be happy and fulfilled.
Just because you don't believe in some supernatural being doesn't mean the world is a cold dark empty place. On the contrary assuming that this life is all there is makes you savor every precious moment and live life to the fullest and makes you value the precious gift that is existence.
Reading through your post you seemed to have a conundrum with the following question.
More specifically, why in the WORLD would Joseph Smith go through all that he went through just to push a fake religion that he started. He was tortured to the point of eventually being straight up MARTYRED for pete's sake!
I just have to remind you that there are as many martyrs as there are relgions. Many attempts were made on Mohammeds life. He was outcast from his family and run out of his city and country. The Pilgrims literally sailed to a new world for he freedom to practice their religious beliefs. Jim Jones committed suicicide and David Karesh burned himself alive along with innocent women and children. Do you assume that those religions and cults are true also? Dying for your cause simply is not a valid measure of truth. On the contrary once you're in that deep it's kind of an all or nothing. If you admit at that point that you made it all up after you've taken everyones money, taken them accross the prarie, sacrificed their lives their fortunes and families you're probably be going to be murdered either way. These men do it for the same reason all scam artists do what they do. Money, fame, power, sex and respect of a large following.
Again I don't purport to know the first thing about Mormonism nor it's truth claims but your reasoning simply isn't sound. I have no qualms if you want to believe in Mormonism. I hope it brings you meaning and fulfillment. I hope you don't mind insight into your quesitons.
I wish you best of luck and much happines on your journey through life. And most of all may you make the most of it and treat others the way you want to be treated.
Best wishes friend.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. :}
That. Was awesome.
This guy gets it. Cheers dude, I know the same feeling. I now just want to stop people from getting to the same place, or worse.
I’m an exmormon. I’ve never trolled you guys, never will, not doing it now. My entire family is Mormon. I’m posting now to attempt to help both you and I in our opposing religious beliefs IRL. I’m hoping to give you insight inside the mind of any exmormon family members you may have.
First, I’m so sorry your family and friends are treating you the way they are. For me, there was also a time, for about 4 years, when I considered myself to be an exmormon (I’ve had a serious change of heart since then and am fully “back” now). I just wanna say that the point you made about active members believing you left because you were offended/wanted to sin is definitely valid, and something I also experienced in my time away from the church. Thankfully, I was still just as close with my family and Mormon friends, but there was always this awkward atmosphere about when I was with them, again because many of them thought I had left for reasons other than simply not believing. I have other friends who have left the church since I’ve been back, and my time away has shown me that it’s best as active members to not assume that we know why someone wants to leave the church. We should be just as loving and warm toward our exmormon family and friends as we always have been. Thank you for the well-written post OP.
Beautiful post OP. You explained many of my own thoughts and feelings so well. I'm a "closeted exmormon", so my family doesn't know yet that I have lost my former beliefs. I really hesitate to tell them this because of the judgment and loss of connection that you describe, that I am afraid I will experience too as I have seen it happen to other family members... I am sorry that you are going through this OP. May we all as believing Mormons and exMormons and those in between all learn to love and seek to understand each other better 💛
Thanks for sharing, it's hard not fitting in with the beliefs of your family and friends. I have a large family and just about everyone feels like they don't fit in for one reason or another (politics, not having children, homosexuality, exmormom, unable to stay married, obesity, drug addiction, sexual addiction, favorite sports teams, etc.). With a large family it's hard not to feel left out or otherwise hurt at some point. Sometimes we focus too much on our own differences.
I guess what I'm getting at is that maybe you are more sensitive to being exmormom than they are, them talking about the church might indicate they are comfortable enough around you to do so. Even more awkward would them hushing up about the church when you were around. Try looking it as them accepting you, but the church is a big part of any Mormon's life. Yeah it may be inconsiderate of them to do this, but maybe it's good they don't feel that have to be careful saying anything about the church around you. I can't speak for you, but this is what I would prefer.
Having said that, I wanted to mention that having one of my one kids leave the church, I have spent considerable time showing the rest of my kids that no one is any less of a family member because they have left the church. Everyone has their own path and the most important thing is for everyone to feel normal around family. I think it's good to hear from people like you to remind us of these things.
Hey, thanks for sharing. It means a lot to us. You had some really good insights that I hadn’t thought of before- when somebody I love leaves the church, I often don’t ask them about it because I don’t want them to feel uncomfortable. But I do see the other side of things now, that it might come off as stand-off ish or awkward. I hope you can feel comfortable in your family one day and feel like you belong. I believe that family is the most important thing, and I don’t want anyone to be without it. Much love.
Edited comment for info:
The two Sisters here were the ones who helped me get baptized in the first place. When I moved back to Jackson County, MO from Georgia, I walked into the Visitor's Center in Independence the day after I got off the plane. These two Sisters greeted me.
I said, "Hello! My name is Revan. I am a dry Mormon. I'd like to be baptized ASAP."
They laughed and laughed and said, "What, are you guys playing some kind of joke on us?"
Turns out that another member, who was baptized, had done the exact same thing 20 minutes prior just to screw with the missionaries.
"No, I'm serious," I say.
"Wait. You're serious?" They're both astounded.
As a formality I was put through the Missionary Lessons with these two Elders. After the first two, they let me teach the lessons. Lol.
Only a few weeks after walking into that Visitors Center, I was baptized. A month later, I was ordained to the Priesthoods and recieved a temple recommend.
So did you convert because you wanted to or because the Jedi council wiped your memory of all the bad stuff you did during the Mandalorian Wars?
Who I am is not important. Only my message is.
I'm not doing this for the Church. I'm not doing it for you. I'm not even doing it for me. I'm doing it for the future Saints. And the next generation after that. We might never live to see the horrors that are coming, but they will. We have to protect the Gospel for them. We have to risk our chance at happiness so they can have a life we might never know.
Quality sh... crap post
It's what was discussed in D&C 28: 11-12.
11 And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page, between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him;
12 For, behold, these things have not been appointed unto him, neither shall anything be appointed unto any of this church contrary to the church covenants
Basically Hiram Page, who was one of the 8 whitnesses, found a seer stone that was like the one he had seen Joseph use. He tried it and received revelation regarding the location of Zion and a few other things. This was Aug 1830 and for all Joseph could tell Hiram was being sincere and many in the church believed. During the conference in Sept 1830 Joseph Smith received the revelation that later became D&C 28:11-12.
Oliver Cowdery had believed the revelation Hiram received but was instructed to go convince Hiram it was from Satan. He did so and the rock was taken out into the street and ground to a powder.
This is when the teaching was extablished that we are entitled to revelation but that revelation can not be contrary to what is revealed to the leaders of the church.
Coriantumr and Shiz post
Never knew how much Hiram Page looked like Viggo Mortensen!
Mosiah 18:30: "And now it came to pass that all this was done in Mormon, yea, by the waters of Mormon, in the forest that was near the waters of Mormon; yea, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon, how beautiful are they to the eyes of them who there came to the knowledge of their Redeemer; yea, and how blessed are they, for they shall sing to his praise forever."
Haha, nice. I actually love this verse. It was suggested by Jack Welch that this verse is the lyrics to a hymn. He imagined Mormon’s mother singing it to him as a child, since it was about his namesake. Makes sense to me, since the BoM is actually full of hymn(psalm) references. Just wish we knew the tune.
Just wish we knew the tune.
That's easy, it's obviously sung to the tune of Kolobyte's Dare To Be A Mormon.
Monson voice: The place of Mormon The waters of Mormon The forest of Mormon How beautiful are they
Just wish we knew the tune.
There is no end to Mormon, there is no end to it there. There is no end to the water, neither is there end to the forest...
I am gay and I have a question that I've thought about for a while but have never had the courage to ask.
If it's a sin to have a sexual relation or marry the same sex then am I just supposed to be single my entire life? Marry the opposite gender and be unhappy? I've looked on the mormon and gay page but have never seen anything on this.
People with same-gender attraction are not encouraged by the church to marry someone of the opposite gender as some sort of “solution.”
I’ve noticed people sometimes describe things as church doctrine when they’re not. People think they can guess what the church has to say about same-gender attraction, but they’re guessing wrong. The church’s website is the best source for learning about their actual stance: http://mormonandgay.lds.org
I'll bet most aren't guessing - they're just not up to date. The church used to encourage gay men to date and marry heterosexually as a cure or therapeutic step.
Changing the culture can take a long time.
Assume this is an exmo trying to stir the pot. Is it not a real issue that needs compassion and a caring answer? Why criticize the messenger when the message is a real concern among gay LDS folks?
Yeah, pretty much. In my opinion, it takes a lot of faith to be a gay mormon. I have a good friend back from high school who recently kind of recognized that he didn't have enough faith to keep it going. He usually still attends church, and keeps commandments, but he has let people know that he intends to slowly walk away.
F for respects
Username checks out. EQP material ;)
Upvote for Jimmy McGill :)
Flip your recommend at him like it’s a ninja star, and tell him you’re a Lutheran now.
That's a nice setup. Even as an exmo, I found a number of good quotes I liked. While many quotes are obviously targeted toward the faithful, there are quite a few that are applicable to individuals of any faith, or none at all.
Just one observation - on my phone most of the topics came up in alphabetical order, but a couple (such as Zion and humility) did not. I'm not sure if that was intentional, but thought I'd point it out since I found the overall alphabetical order to be helpful.
Now you need to make an app ;)
Edited to add: your site is amazing! You can tell that you put a lot of work into it! I love it and will most likely use it!
I concur!!! This is an excellent site!! Good work!!
Nice, a ton of work involved I'd assume. Are these all curated, or how did you come up with who/what should be included?
C.S. Lewis: honorary LDS, yet again!
The filters seem to be broken for me.