We Catalans Owe the World an Explanation

We Catalans Owe the World an Explanation

Dear god, I love it how when an independentist politician writes an article in some newspaper it has to be respected and taken into consideration. Then a unionist politician writes an article and he is suddenly a franquist child-eater.

Yes, this article belongs to Albert Rivera. I have my discrepancies with their party but if you read their program its actually moderate center-right. They are against nationalism yeah, but that does not make them alt-right members of the Falange.

I keep seeing Ad Hominem here. "He is the leader of the unionist party, therefore anything he says is invalid" I still have to see that approach with the articles filled to the top with empirically proven lies Puigdemont or Junqueras wrote.

This is actually a very good resume of the situation in Catalonia. Ciudadanos is very likely to be the most voted unionist party in Catalonia and if unionists have enough votes a coalition with them will be the only way to get out of this mess.

The reason Ciudadanos is so hard against catalan nationalism is not because they are spanish nationalists but for the exact opposite. They want Catalonia (and by extension the rest of Spain) to be international and European. I can relate to that. I feel proud of being Spanish but I viscerally detest nationalisms, its just a way of limiting yourself and others.

Being unionist does not make you a spanish nationalist. They may be proud of being spanish but they dont have any conservative type of social measures in their program. Is it that bad to like your own flag?

P.D. INB4 "falangists were in the unionist demonstrations with Ciudadanos". Yes, they tagged along. It has been said several times that they do not represent the unionist movement. Its like if I made my image of a left-wing demonstration based on the radical guys that only go to break things and attack the police.

The fact that C's solution to the problem is crap doesn't take away to the fact that he described the problem fairly well.

You yourself said that it was all right until you read who came from, dismiss it just because that just proves his point more. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You are always quick to see the problems on the other side and dissmis yours even if they are similar or worse. Catalan goverment under CIU has nothing to envy PP on corruption, so please stop it already. The fact that there are other small nations that have succeded doesn't take away from the fact that there has been plenty of small and big nations that have failed. Your whatabautism and flawed cherry picked arguments are getting tiring already.

Even if the Spanish government is corrupt to the gills. Disappointing.

And how is this related?

Oh for Gods sake. Come on. I assumed this was a Catalan unionist journalist, or perhaps someone writing for the Times. Only learn halfway that it's the leader of the stridently unionist Ciudadanos. That just ruins it, honestly.

Anyway, fairly standard talking points here. I'm assuming they also.opposed the independence of many other small nations. We should simply accept our lot, accept how history turned out. Even if there are dozens and dozens of nations smaller still which are doing fine. Even if the Spanish government is corrupt to the gills. Disappointing.

Edit: in particular, his claim "an isolated Catalonia in a globalised world." Whoops. I guess Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, Estonia, etc. didn't get the memo. Presumably languishing in racist, nationalist isolation.

The writer is literally the leader of the unionist party, everything is really subjective.

Because he's right, statistic show that people with greater income tend to be more nationalistic while people with less income tend not to be. And this is pulled from the Generalitat's own statistics agency.

He doesn't said anything else you listed in the mentioned article, but you got it right, the fact that I dont like C's is because they are nationalists as fuck, and I don't like any flavour of nationalism. The fact that PP is losing voters to the right to C's doens't help either.

But likewise, unionist aren't the demons catalan nationalist have painted either. Overall, nationalism is crap, the rethoric is full with disguised xenophobia as facts. The mere concept of leftist nationalist is laughable in the face, yet the catalan nationalist have had no trouble to label themselves as such.

Overall a sorry sightseeing. Worst yet is that when a nationalist of either side looks at one of the other, they fail to see that they are exactly the same, just with a different flag and few different prejudices.

Try to pick one that is outside the European Union. Because it’s very unlikely that Catalonia would be part of the EU. And that fact alone would drive a lot of business away from it.

Oh yeah, the JFK quotes were fucking stupid. Comparing Spaniards in Cataloniaq to Southern blacks? Worst kind of emotional rhetoric.

Remember a scene from the film "Grave" (aka Raw) when Justine was being filmed by her sister drunkenly attempting to cannibalize a sober man and then woke up to everyone looking at her like she's some kind of freak?

Yup, Catalonia is the Justine/Garance Marillier of this whole current political situation.

If Scotland could be, so could Catalonia, surely.

No, you hope this would be the case even when everyone with actual power to make the decision has stated otherwise, you just can't accept simple facts, keep living on fantasy land.

And? It did lessen the tone of the article, but regardless, it's a very basic article. He said "whataboutism" and you said "strawman" when I responded to his cheap, meaningless rhetoric regarding isolation in a globalised world. I'd like to ask which nations of Catalonias size and development failed. Because the other small nations I mentioned all succeeded, and with smaller populations and economies too.

Edit: Scotland and Quebec. That's how you defuse a nationalist crisis.

"Ireland is my homeland, Britain is my country..." see how easy it is?

No, I respectfully disagreed, but it just cheapens the tone.

PSA: This article is written by the leader of Ciudadanos party. A center-right spanish-nationalist party that supports the government of PP in Spain and is pushing the agenda to pursue re-centralization measures in all of Spain. Take it with a grain of salt.

It's a pretty conventional explanation to the events of the past couple of months and a case for why Catalonia should stay. It shouldn't be a surprise that these are pretty standard when half or more of the people Catalonia want to stay or at least want the lawlessness from the current Catalonian separatist parties to stop. While support for independence has been declining, there has been a spike in how bulkanized the people living there have become. I talk to people from there who tell me that they can't even talk to their families about politics because it's become a hot button issue thanks in part to what's happened. That's something that outsiders who rally the banner don't understand because they aren't living it. To them, it's like going to the latest Apple event to see the unveiling of the newest iphone(country).

I'm assuming they also.opposed the independence of many other small nations. We should simply accept our lot, accept how history turned out. Even if there are dozens and dozens of nations smaller still which are doing fine. Even if the Spanish government is corrupt to the gills. Disappointing.

Strawmen. You're just looking for a reason to dismiss it. You didn't know who it was until he stated it.