VENEZUELA Today.

VENEZUELA Today.

Keep this up, that's how you get a new government.

We should host the Olympics there

At some point the people won't take anymore. I know that there were already mass protests back in 2014, but with things getting this bad I feel this time they won't back down:


People are literally starving to death. The average Venezuelan lost 19 pounds last year. People are resorting to hunting stray animals and even breaking into the Caracas zoo to butcher a horse for food.
The rationing of basic goods has completely failed, with long lines ups for things like toilet paper and bread
Inflation is expected to rise 1660% this year and 2880% in 2018, according to the International Monetary Fund. 
Crime is rampant, Caracas is now the most violent city in the world, with the highest homicide rate on the planet.
Basic medicine that people need is unavailable. Having universal healthcare access doesn't mean much when you can't get any medicine and have long wait times.
Power blackouts and water shortages are regular part of life, and are only getting worse.
76% are now below the poverty line, with nearly half of Venezuelans not getting 3 meals a day.
The country is ranked as #1 on Bloomberg's misery list.


This is democratic socialism, as much as Reddit refuses to accept it. The Venezuelan government was democratically elected by the people to seize the means of production and ration out the benefits. The United Socialist Party of Venezuela insituted democratic socialism build on the socialist policies of Hugo Chavez. It was failing long before the oil prices fell, there were chronic food shortages back in 2013 when the oil was close to a $100.

This is socialism, it has lead to ruin and misery in many states before. At some point when it's failed economic policies start leading to starvation, the people start revolting and it inevitably starts demanding more authoritarian power to maintain its control.

And before someone jumps in to mention Scandinavia....Scandinavia is not democratic socialism, as much as Bernie Sanders sold many young, naive millennials with that talking point. This was something that was rebuked by Denmark's PM himself. In the Scandinavian countries the means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective uses by the market, not government or community planning. Scandinavian countries are highly capitalist, and incredibly high on the Economic Freedom Index. Entrepreneurship and free markets are fervently embraced, Sweden adopted a universal school choice system in the 1990s that is nearly identical to the system proposed by libertarian economist Milton Friedman, and there are no minimum wage laws in Sweden or Norway or Denmark. What Nordic countries practice is the Nordic Model, something that is possible there because of their tiny homogenous populations and high natural resources to support the taxation need for the welfare programs. In fact the social success of the Scandinavian countries predate this model, with several studies showing that the greatest decrease in income inequality there came prior to the implementation of the big welfare state. And even if you say their baseline quality of life is better than the average American, in reality it's a function of vast demographic difference. In reality, Danish-Americans have a measured living standard about 55 percent higher than the Danes in Denmark. Swedish-Americans have a living standard 53 percent higher than the Swedes, and Finnish-Americans have a living standard 59 percent higher than those back in Finland. The emigration rate from this supposed Scandinavian Utopia to the US is positive, with Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway having so many people emigrating to America and very few going the other way. 

If you want to see what these same big government welfare states look in larger countries that don't have the natural resource taxation wealth to fuel them, look no further than Spain or Greece or Italy. As nice as Norway seems, its a  country with a smaller population than the Philadelphia Metro Area sitting on a gigantic fossil fuel deposit, not really something the USA can emulate. 

What is really sad to see here is that so many on Reddit fervently defend socialism and are even trying to deflect by comparing this protest to the feminist "women's march" protests here in the USA. 

The leftist college kids need a reality check: We have it incredibly good if you live in the capitalist, free market, individualist USA. This is by any measure the most prosperous and powerful country in history, and a big part of that is because we have fervently opposed the socialist cancer that has destroyed so many other nations like Venezuela. This is why we have a million people immigrating here every year, because they know that while equality of outcome isn't guaranteed in the US, becoming an American citizen gives you access to a very high quality of life and economic opportunities that are unmatched in the world.

edit: Just got banned from /r/LateStageCapitalism for this post. I never even posted there.

At some point the people won't take anymore. I know that there were already mass protests back in 2014, but with things getting this bad I feel this time they won't back down:

People are literally starving to death. The average Venezuelan lost 19 pounds last year. People are resorting to hunting stray animals and even breaking into the Caracas zoo to butcher a horse for food.

The rationing of basic goods has completely failed, with long lines ups for things like toilet paper and bread

Inflation is expected to rise 1660% this year and 2880% in 2018, according to the International Monetary Fund.

Crime is rampant, Caracas is now the most violent city in the world, with the highest homicide rate on the planet.

Basic medicine that people need is unavailable. Having universal healthcare access doesn't mean much when you can't get any medicine and have long wait times.

Power blackouts and water shortages are regular part of life, and are only getting worse.

76% are now below the poverty line, with nearly half of Venezuelans not getting 3 meals a day.

The country is ranked as #1 on Bloomberg's misery list.

This is democratic socialism, as much as Reddit refuses to accept it. The Venezuelan government was democratically elected by the people to seize the means of production and ration out the benefits. The United Socialist Party of Venezuela insituted democratic socialism build on the socialist policies of Hugo Chavez. It was failing long before the oil prices fell, there were chronic food shortages back in 2013 when the oil was close to a $100.

This is socialism, it has lead to ruin and misery in many states before. At some point when it's failed economic policies start leading to starvation, the people start revolting and it inevitably starts demanding more authoritarian power to maintain its control.

And before someone jumps in to mention Scandinavia....Scandinavia is not democratic socialism, as much as Bernie Sanders sold many young, naive millennials with that talking point. This was something that was rebuked by Denmark's PM himself. In the Scandinavian countries the means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective uses by the market, not government or community planning. Scandinavian countries are highly capitalist, and incredibly high on the Economic Freedom Index. Entrepreneurship and free markets are fervently embraced, Sweden adopted a universal school choice system in the 1990s that is nearly identical to the system proposed by libertarian economist Milton Friedman, and there are no minimum wage laws in Sweden or Norway or Denmark. What Nordic countries practice is the Nordic Model, something that is possible there because of their tiny homogenous populations and high natural resources to support the taxation need for the welfare programs. In fact the social success of the Scandinavian countries predate this model, with several studies showing that the greatest decrease in income inequality there came prior to the implementation of the big welfare .... And even if you say their baseline quality of life is better than the average American, in reality it's a function of vast demographic difference. In reality, Danish-Americans have a measured living standard about 55 percent higher than the Danes in Denmark. Swedish-Americans have a living standard 53 percent higher than the Swedes, and Finnish-Americans have a living standard 59 percent higher than those back in Finland. The emigration rate from this supposed Scandinavian Utopia to the US is positive, with Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway having so many people emigrating to America and very few going the other way.

If you want to see what these same big government welfare states look in larger countries that don't have the natural resource taxation wealth to fuel them, look no further than Spain or Greece or Italy. As nice as Norway seems, its a country with a smaller population than the Philadelphia Metro Area sitting on a gigantic fossil fuel deposit, not really something the USA can emulate.

What is really sad to see here is that so many on Reddit fervently defend socialism and are even trying to deflect by comparing this protest to the feminist "women's march" protests here in the USA.

The leftist college kids need a reality check: We have it incredibly good if you live in the capitalist, free market, individualist USA. This is by any measure the most prosperous and powerful country in history, and a big part of that is because we have fervently opposed the socialist cancer that has destroyed so many other nations like Venezuela. This is why we have a million people immigrating here every year, because they know that while equality of outcome isn't guaranteed in the US, becoming an American citizen gives you access to a very high quality of life and economic opportunities that are unmatched in the world.

edit: Just got I never even posted there.

Venezuela goes hard on 4/20

Power to the people overthrow your shitty government!

Expat Venezuelan here... They will have to keep this up for months. Judging by the Ukranian Euromaidan, it may take 3 months and hundreds of deaths for Maduro to grab his bags and leave for Cuba.

Maldito Maduro, vete para la mierda!

edit: I mean "Son of a bitch Maduro, get the fuck out!"

edit 2: Really glad my most upvoted comment is about something meaningful that I deeply care about.

That is not thousands as the BBC has been reporting that is millions , every street in all directions every highway almost completely full of people as far as the eye can see. Obama crowd for his inauguration was on a fraction of this and he is supposed to have had over 1 million people there...

But please dont get shoot.

This looks like the helicopter scene in every zombie movie.

I'm sure FIFA is ready to award them a World Cup as well

It's technically 20/4/2017 for them.

Edit: Ah fuck, I posted this on my alt.

Get your shoot together. Put it in a backpack, take it to the shoot store. Put it in a shoot museum.

Like most places.

I have read all these comments and I advise you to turn back

If they do get shoot, where do they take it?

"Basic medicine is unavailable"

That's an understatement. My uncle died yesterday in Maracaibo because they ran out of insulin and couldn't get more.

Civil engineer here. Fun fact: tightly packed people load a bridge much more considerably than the heaviest of trucks. I don't know much about design regulations in Venezuela, but I personally would not be caught standing on or under any of those bridges. Glad to see them out taking a stand though!

Yeah but trumps was like.. The biggest crowd ever

Blood alone move the wheels of history.

Dwight Schrute

All those poor, desperate people will make great slaves for building a soccer stadium.

Where's Kendall to help out ?

Venezuelan here, "go to the shit" is basically "go fuck yourself"

But then you realize you control the military and those people don't have any guns and you go back rolling around in your bed made of money.

I'm gonna stir some shit here, and I'm not even American but that's precisely what the second amendment was conceived for.

This is exactly why I laugh heartily when people talk about "revolt" and "revolution" in the US because Trump this or that whatever bullshit.

Nobody here is going to fucking revolt. Americans have no idea what it means to actually be desperate.

That's not a backpack, it's a parashoot.

How can this be today, if I saw this picture yesterday?

Nah. It's more convenient to read the number that matters most first. No one looks at a date to figure out what year it currently is. Unless you're coming out of a coma...or stupid.

And replace it with something that is based on capitalism and the free markets.

Don't just replace one Marxist government with another that will follow the same economically disasterous policies.

They finally got Pokemon go?

What are you talking about, yesterday I was told that no-one was reporting on this.

/s

The tactics of protest desperately need to change. Once upon a time, a massive demonstration of people was all you needed to scare a politician because it could represent all the people that wouldn't be voting them back in, and a social movement that would attract more people overtime.

Now the media has gotten better at discrediting and downplaying the goals of protests like this, and conversely, protesters have gotten too comfortable assuming that gathering X number of people = You win. That number of people is meaningless if they have no leverage to use against their leadership.

That said, if a protest of this size persists and maintains momentum, it can seriously screw up the government. Having this many people not working can grind and economy to a halt, and having the police constantly deployed to combat these crowds is a resource sink (money, police energy, etc.). If the government is hemorrhaging money to keep protesters under control, and ends up failing, it puts them on a timer to either give into demands, or eventually have no resources to use to maintain control.

Yeah that looks like a good amount. Now storm your dictator and remove him by force because that is what it's going to take. All of this is for nothing if you do nothing with it.

Americans have no idea what it means to actually be desperate.

Sure they do, just not as large a percentage of the country. Anyway, people aren't going to fight a revolutionary war with guns in the street, but people are going to be pissed.

Protests were just as big 4 years ago, nothing changed. Wish them all the best, though.

No don't you understand, it helps sorting and filing. Sorting and filing!

too mouthy to be slaves. source: I am venezuelan

Or even better, best of both worlds. I am not saying nordic countries is the path Venezuela should take but when it comes to human development, they are a good example of regulated capitalism.

When she posts "newly single"

You are correct. The government should fear the people, else there is tyranny.

YUGE

Although, this happened in Syria where part of the army defected and that situation is a bit not cool at the moment.

Yes. (Pulling numbers out of my ass here). Let's say a typical car is 16ft long x 7ft wide and 3000lbs. That's 3000lbs/112 sq ft = 27 lb/ft2. If people are shoulder to shoulder it's probably more like 150lb over 2.5 sf = 60 psf. That's neglecting the enormous amount of space present on the bridge even in bumper to bumper traffic. The bridge is probably fine even with the loading of the people. But in a country like Venezuela right now, I personally wouldn't take the chance.

Edit: To address some of your questions. I am at work so I can't address you all individually. I am not a structural engineer, just remembering back to structural classes. These things are absolutely built with factors of safety involved. I was just stating that I wouldn't be comfortable in that situation because I don't know about design standards in other countries and I don't trust that these structures have been maintained properly by a bankrupt government. That being said, you all have brought up some very good points. Large trucks will definitely apply a much larger load under their tires and may even provide a larger load over the whole area that they cover, but even in bumper to bumper traffic I would be surprised if 60% of the road surface is covered. Look at a satellite image of bumper to bumper traffic. You can see a lot of pavement. Further, the load exerted by a whole bunch of people hopping around on top is going to be dynamically very different than bumper to bumper traffic. Lastly, the issue is not pressure under tires, it's the total weight on the bridge.

Either way, everybody can relax. The other guys are probably right. The bridges were probably designed with a large factor of safety and are probably safe. Just thought you all might find the perspective interesting to consider.

I'm so sorry for your loss

As an Australian I get pissed off all the time that people are not willing to protest here more and just seem to take it up the rear from the government, but then i read comments like this and realize that of i want to walk into my bathroom and scrunch up 30 squares of toilet paper to use for only 1 wiping motion i can because i have another 30 rolls sitting in the cupboard and if those run out i can go to supermarket and buy another 1000 rolls if i want ( assuming i have enough money ) and i will never in my life time as far as i know ever have to worry about running out of toilet paper ( except for laziness ) makes me feel very lucky to be Australian despite what ever petty problems this country has

Getting Pepsi

Go to the shit?

I give that understatement a 9/10.

BUT I AM NOT A COMPUTER. I AM A REAL HUMAN.

It's 1660%

1.660% isn't worth tearing a government down over!

Well... Shoot

Still hoping people adopt ISO 8601. It makes sense when paired with times. Longest measurement of time to shortest. Year Month Day Hour Minute Second

2017-04-20

But see, I have morbid curiosity and downvotes to hand out.

Yes, they're the ones in riot gear.

Itt: people more concerned with taking a jab at socialism than the immense human suffering on the ground.

Those bridges are typically at a standstill with bumper to bumper traffic, packed as tight as possible without regard for the lanes drawn on the road (so maybe 5 cars across on a 4 lane road).

Are you saying that a bridge covered in people is heavier than that?

(not arguing, just curious)

They don't have guns, silly. But the government does.

The problem is that the people with guns won't let that happen.

That's assuming the military is still loyal to you and the soldiers are loyal to the military, I imagine there would be a lot of defectors when the military asks the soldiers to fire on civilians.

In the USA, we call that "uppity".

And that is pricesly why the government banned guns before they tried this shit

Blood alone move the wheels of history - Dwight Schrute

Michael Scott

the picture was placed on a jet and circled around the globe backwards before being redistributed.

I'm using this

"world championship of soccer" such an American thing to say lol

Chill, bro. Have a Pepsi

People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

A lot of people's idea of a revolution is going online and shitposting about him

So I captivated the guy who captivated a thousand guys. Can you believe that? A thousand guys...

if i was an oppressive government, this picture would scare the shit out of me

Seizing the means of transportation, I see.

I know. It didn't work. All my family still has guns. You can't walk outside without a gun cause all the thugs are armed. You had to give up registered guns, but not every gun is registered, plus you could claim you lost it, or sold it. Imagine, the ban on marijuana, or booze and how well that worked out.

Source: Venezuelan.

Corruption is venezuela's problem, not marxism. And besides, do you really think a society based on the merits of money is inherently corruption free?

Edit: RIP my inbox firstly. To all of you who left thought provoking dialogue, thank you, while I may not share your views, I respect them and I always enjoy reading the opposition. To all of you who called me retard, go tip your fedora somewhere else.

The people with guns probably don't have toilet paper or basic necessities either

The most important rule for dictators is to give toilet paper to the guys with guns. I'm sure Maduro has this covered.

And a measured and intelligent approach to resource management

That's not brigading. thats a post being exposed to a wider audience than intended.

Are there any single attractive women you know who might be interested in moving north? I might actually have a chance if the alternative is literally starving to death. Might.

Revolutions only tend to happen when food, water, or other necessities becomes scarce.

Many Americans may despise Trump and all he stands for, but things aren't quite that serious yet.

V For Venezuela

Oh god, I hope /sub/economics doesn't see this comment. No one wants an Austrian vs Keynesian debate on a Venezuelan protest thread.

I heard that no one is reporting about this last week.

Here we go again...

Well it would cost you 0 because you would be killing the shop owner and taking it.

They're not slaves, they're voluntarily low wage workers.

/sub/totallynotrobots

Even though Venezuelans aren't protesting Socialism.

Violence is the only thing that can breed change at this point. Those in power don't care that they won't be voted in because they'll just game the system. If you want to see something actually change the people you are trying to scare have to be legitamitely afraid for their lives.

They think they're untouchable. Gotta prove them wrong.

Revolutionary change requires revolutionary action. Parading around in the streets will not accomplish the end goals.

1-2% is the amount of inflation a lot of governments seek to have.

and in current world news, the situation in Syria continues to devolve into what world leaders are calling a "totally not chill suck-fest"

Amen. You are now an honorary American. Also, you are now subscribed to America Facts. Press 1 to unsubscribe.

That's such a shitty quote, I cringe whenever I see it. Fear shouldn't be involved in government at all. Governments should REPRESENT and ACT IN THE INTEREST of the people. Governments should be "of the people and by the people". As soon as you separate the "government" into a separate identity, things are going to get shittier and shittier.

Ex supporters of the goverment and the military are now slowly turning againist maduro.

Nobody here is going to fucking revolt. Americans have no idea what it means to actually be desperate.

I think you're only half right (the desperation part). I do think Americans will revolt if shit gets too fucked. thousands of people, including a bunch of pro bono lawyers, showed up at airports in a matter of hours to right a wrong. Then a few federal judges put the hammers in the coffin of that silly injustice. That gave me a lot of hope. We may be complacent now, but we also kind of deserve some complacency for setting shit up properly in the first place. And we've shown that if the balance get legit tipped, people will show up pissed off and fix it.

Nordic countries have extremely free markets, albeit with very high taxation, however they are absolutely governed by capitalism, not socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Higher economic freedom = closer to pure capitalism Lower economic freedom = closer to pure communism/socialism

Marx was a philosopher of 19th century capitalism, not 21st century Leninism, why this is called marxist I don't understand. Why is it that whenever a "marxist" economy fails, it's because of flaws inherent to the system, but when a capitalist economy fails, it's because of external factors? The soviet union went from Feudalism to superpower in a generation, and Zimbabwe is a capitalist shithole.

In fairness i've seen other pictures and I'm not convinced it's in the millions

The conspiracy goes deeper than I thought!

No, they have 20/4

A bunch of people in this thread seem to be pointing at this protest as evidence of the failure of a socialist government. I'm no expert on this topic, and that's not entirely false, but it seems to me that that's sort of missing the point. The opposition party leading these protests are criticizing the government for not being socialist enough.

On March 2009, the [opposition] party's national coordinator Julio Borges said, "Venezuela lives under state capitalism, not socialism." The party's economic position is so-called "properties democratization," similar to a social market economy. In the 2012 presidential election, Henrique Capriles described himself as humanist and progressive.

Source of this info

Original source of that comment