TIL that non-violent attempts to escape Mexican prisons are not punished as 'it's human nature to want freedom'

TIL that non-violent attempts to escape Mexican prisons are not punished as 'it's human nature to...

I think the same applies to Germany as well.

Yes. Crimes commited in the process, however, still get prosecuted.

Which can be pretty hard to avoid. Even if you don't break anything or hurt anyone while escaping you still usually end up breaking the law somehow in the process even if you just steal your prison uniform. (If you don't steal clothing you run the risk of committing public indecency or something.) And anyone helping a prisoner escape is committing a crime while prisoners escaping together may be guilty of something like a prison mutiny.

Still the law in many places is pretty clear that you can blame a prisoner for wanting to be free and acting on those desires.

In case anyone was wondering about where such modern and progressive ideas come from, the law in Germany at least goes back to the 19th century.

So basically I can just keep myself entertained in Mexican prison by constantly trying to recreate the tv show prison break (minus the violence) and maybe even eventually escape?

What happens when someone does escape? Do they just get returned to jail nomad later if they get caught?

No, no, no. The attempt is OK. The escape is not.

I don't think any nation should try to copy Mexico's current law enforcement. No bueno.

But you won't get 200years sentence because you (edit: repeatedly) tried to flee from a 2 year sentence like in other countries...

I understand but one of the main reasons is that sometimes innocent people are executed. I really have nothing to add to the usual arguments.

There was a guy that escaped from a mexican prison by helicopter, someone picked him up, he was careful not to break any rules so he basically got away scot free

Article> http://time.com/3912533/jail-break-kaplan-history/

Yes. You don't get additional charges, but it doesn't wipe away the original ones.

Now my question is, would he not still have to return to finish his sentence? Granted, there wouldn't be additional charges but I imagine if the police saw him he'd still have to go back and finish his sentence, right?

If caught, they would be returned to prison to serve out the remainder of their sentence. There wouldn't be another court involved.

I'm also not sure other countries have a concept of double jeopardy, and too lazy to find out.

The idea that the government has the power to kill its own citizens, guilty or not, should be disturbing enough. Man is ridiculously flawed and fallible.

In some countries you can get holidays from prison.

Yes. Sometimes the guest doesn't return.

Exactly, the CARTEL LEADER. I'd imagine it would be a hell of a lot easier for someone with his own private army to engineer a successful escape, rather than some poor Mexican farmer stealing some pesos to feed his family. El Chapo even bribed his way out of one prison, all he had to do was pay up and walk out.

"enforcement" more like corruption

It seems to me that plenty of countries have penal systems somewhat to vastly superior to that of the USA.

What has genuinely touched me: 1. Canada and I think Mexico (and probably some other enlightened nations) won't extradite someone facing capital punishment

Italy illuminates the Colosseum whenever someone gets a pardon from the death penalty and does something more when a country outlaws the death penalty

The USA is right up there with China as to a fucked up legal system and part of this is the profit motive which is not just for-profit prisons but also prison guards' and police unions supporting laws that keep them in overtime.

rehabilitation into society

Indeed. I don't get how people can be ok with the death penalty when innocent people can and do get executed.

Nope. No taksie-backsies. I am pretty sure it is international law.

Prisoners in Germany can get up to 21 days of "Hafturlaub" (vacation) per year given a good record and no risk of escape. On vacation, prisoners can leave the prison overnight to stay with family etc. More days can be requested if the inmate works in prison or under special circumstances (e.g. death of a family member). This privilege is apparently (I can't find statistics) rather rare and hard to get, and usually awarded towards the end of the imprisonment to ease reintegration into society.

There are also several arrangements to allow prisoners to leave for the day with or without supervision, for work or otherwise.

The numbers, at least in the US, work out greatly in favor of life in prison. Legal proceedings cost a lot, and there are special legal requirements for the death penalty that really rack up those costs.

Well the cartel leader el chapo has gotten out a bunch of times

I mean, is leaving Mexico without "permission" illegal for their citizens? Whether entering the US without permission is legal or not is not really something the Mexican government can control.

"In Mexico, for instance, escapees who do not break any other laws are not charged for anything and no extra time is added to their sentence; however, officers are allowed to shoot prisoners attempting to escape"

So yeah I guess you're free to try, but the guards are also free to put bullets in you

In civilized countries prison is supposed to be adetention while you are being resocialisated. Cutting you off completely for years from society server no purpose, you might as well be locked up forever, because as soon as you get out you have nowhere to go and usually you are forced to commit crime to survive.


No. I was just using the kids schoolyard rationale. It's not as late here but I have had a few beers and I am pretty sure I am hilariously funny. ;)

Alright Jeff, you scamp, we're really gonna need you to knock it off. Promise?

Ok, you make that into law. Except, now they're calling corner store robberies and domestic violence terrorism. That group of people trying to overturn an awful law and standing in the street are also terrorists. And when all this is so bad that people start to revolt, they, too, will be terrorists.

History shows that to be a bad idea. It angers me that people sill think like this.

Same in Sweden.

Same in Belgium. Prisoner should not break/damage anything and return his/her uniform at the earliest.

Easy to say when it's not you who is getting the chair when you are innocent and being framed

I think they will be quick to shoot an escaping prisoner

Obvious to who? Look at history. Look at the word "communist"in history, specifically in the United States. It was basically used to discredit or denounce anyone critical of the establishment. The same thing is happening in the now. Any attack on an allied nation is immediately "terrorism", but the PKK are conveniently "not terrorists", even though their operation is no different than those we call terrorists. We won't call Saudi Arabia terrorists even though they fund the majority of the world's terrorism. It's much too subjective to carry any meaning beyond propaganda.

I was shocked that Mexican police just walked around with giant rifles that were always out. At first when I saw them emptying an ATM, I thought they were robbers.

I mean, yeah, it's legal to escape, but that doesn't mean the guards/prison staff won't try to stop you.

The question is:

Has, in the course of escaping prison, without hurting anyone, has someone been charged with stealing the prison uniform?

Sorry that I get angry when people talk about killing others and denying them everything based on a flimsy label like terrorist.

I don't understand why the death penalty is bad. Some people should die for the things they do.

Yes, stealing the garb is non-violent but it is not directly the crime associated with the act of escaping. So while it's non-violent you would still be charged with the crime.

And the guaranteed execution of those not actually guilty.

Also, even from a pragmatic point of view, they would suffer more in prison then by lethal injection.

Same in belgium. But you get fined for property damage.

I'm not sure "it's ok because it's human nature" is a good justification for anything.

And the state should choose who those people are, right?