TIL that due to EU regulations, EU eggs are about 50 times less likely to contain pathogens such as salmonella than American eggs.

TIL that due to EU regulations, EU eggs are about 50 times less likely to contain pathogens such as salmonella than American eggs.

The Danish (and probably also others) way: If salmonella is detected in a chicken farm, AOL all of the chickens are destroyed. Result: Danish chickens are considered salmonella free and therefore there is no warning against using raw eggs in food for people who are in normal health.

We do refrigerate our eggs, but I think that's just to keep them fresh longer and/or is just how it has always been.

AOL of the chickens

"You've got chickens!"

I think you mean that because of US regulations, US eggs are 50 times more likely to contain pathogens.

Another thing to note, if you get very ill in Europe you go see a doctor. If you get very ill in the USA but are poor or unemployed, you just die* or have to pay an astronomical bill for medical services.

- obviously, not immediately. However, I am jaded since a US friend of mine died after years of legal battles with his insurance company. An accident fucked up his back making him unable to work and later do anything. That led to a debt spiral, lack of money for treatment, lack of rehabilitation and a steady decline in health.

Probably because chicken is generally considered pretty safe in Europe and handeled with less care, while in the US people act like chicken is infested with the plague and needs to be cooked to hell and back.

Seems like the latter is the safer choice.

Not anymore

Well apparently, that doesn't mean that much. According to 2013 US CDC the US had 7439 cases of Salmonella with a 15.29 incidence rate per 100000 population along with 2144 hospitalizations and 32 deaths. (https://www.cdc.gov/foodnet/pdfs/2014-foodnet-surveillance-report.pdf pg 3)

Here I will be quoting directly from the ECDC "n 2014, a total of 88,715 confirmed salmonellosis cases were reported by 28 EU MS, resulting in an EU notification rate of 23.4 cases per 100,000 population. This represented a 15.3% increase in the EU notification rate compared with 2013. There was a statistically significant decreasing trend of salmonellosis in the 7-year period of 2008-2014. Sixty-five fatal cases were reported by 11 MS among the 15 MS that provided data on the outcome of their cases. This gives an EU case-fatality of 0.15% among the 43,995 confirmed cases for which this information was available." (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2903/j.efsa.2015.4329/pdf pg 4)

The US has almost 30% less Salmonella and an very similar hospitalization while also having a higher death rate of .43%. However, the EU estimates that in Europe, 1/58 cases goes unreported which is around 5 million cases a year compared to the US's own estimate of 1.2 million a year. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22717051 (Study is from 2009 while other data is from 2014)

When you consider that the United States population is around 360 million while the European Union is roughly 508 million then you are 5 times more likely to contract Salmonella in the EU then the US.

Also, as stated in the report above, the lack of refrigeration in the EU is likely a major contributor to Salmonella cases throughout Europe.

it clearly says that in the video you posted

I like how your video doesn't say anything even close to your submission title. The video says that there has been no study to say which method is better. The data they present only compares England & Wales to the entire US, and even they say that it needs to be taken with a large grain of salt (also it's mostly the UK egg industry that is talked about, while EU regulations are barely mentioned)

Just a quick remark on that: you can still get salmonella from 'salmonella free chicken' if you leave it unfrozen for a long time or recook it after a long while.

Just in case you may not have known.

And before you ask, yes, people do both those things, it happens regularly.

Yet still here in the Netherlands we're having a bit of a fuss about certain chemicals in eggs at the moment. This is because some of the chickens had fleas, and the farmers had them sprayed with fipronil, which is toxic to humans. Of course, the poison got into the eggs as well, which has led to... well, this.

Certain German supermarkets are even banning the sale of Dutch eggs entirely, and it's taking a toll on egg sales. The eggs are being evaluated for poisons at the moment, and certain trade unions are deciding on what to do with the chickens.

I'll be sure to avoid eating eggs for now.

They're not choosing to die, they're choosing to wait it out and hope it gets better because if they go and get it treated and it turns out to be non-fatal, then they've just ruined the rest of their life for nothing.

all of the chickens are destroyed

✓ Humans are euthanized

✓ Pets are put to sleep

✓ Cattle are slaughtered

✓ Chickens are Ḍ̱ͅE҉͚̙̗̦S̶̟̲̫Ṯ̮̗̱͉̝͜ͅR͍̠͕̝͔O͈͇̝̬̲͎͎Y̦̘͠ͅED

Salmonella is typically non-lethal. And yes, people will choose to stay home and endure it rather than getting it treated. If it's not immediately lethal, many people would prefer to risk the consequences rather than risk their entire life by going into debt.

I can't comment on the incidence rate, but knowing people who do it (and knowing that people take fish antibiotics to save money) I can comfortably say it's a thing that happens.

More regularly than in America even.

CDC:

In 2013, the incidence of salmonellosis in the United States was 15.5 laboratory-confirmed infections per 100,000 population,

European Food Safety Authority (Warning: PDF)

In 2013, a total of 82,694 confirmed salmonellosis cases were reported by 27 EU MS, resulting in an EU notification rate of 20.4 cases per 100,000 population.

Yeah, it's pretty silly to claim the EU as the saviour when it just does eggs the same as the rest of the world.

It's the USA that does that weird bleaching thing and destroys the natural protection of the egg shell.

because we don't wash eggs - they're meant to keep the insides safe at body temperature. But I guess if you have a horror-story industrial farm, they might not look the prettiest and have things sticking on them, hence the washing.

And there's nothing wrong with that, it came out of a chicken's ass anyway, you're not going to lick the shell or eat it

TIL that due to EU regulations, EU _______ are about __ times less likely to contain _______ such as _______ than American _______.

Let's Mad Lib this!

TIL that due to EU regulations, EU households are about 69 times less likely to contain guns such as AR-15 than American household.

you're not going to lick the shell

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

OP didn't even watch the video!

do people in the UK not refrigerate eggs? because I do.

Well now you have. Happened to me. It sucked so much I still remember over a decade later. It was by far the worst thing to ever happen to my body. I'll spare you the details, but I had to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes for two whole weeks. People think I'm a vegan because I like animals. Little do they know it's actually just so I can never get salmonella again. Fuck. that. shit.

they might not look the prettiest and have things sticking on them, hence the washing.

The eggs I buy regularly have things sticking to them, like straw or a feather.

Are there seriously people who choose to "just die" instead of taking on the debt when they're extremely sick? Hospitals are required by EMTALA (American federal law) to treat people in emergencies (which would definitely include severe infection) regardless of payment ability, so it's not a matter of access to care.

my partner had a heart attack that caused a heart arrhythmia, but the pain "wasn't so bad" and even though he has insurance, he has to pay out of pocket for a few grand if he takes an ambulance to the emergency room. he easily could have died if he didn't drive to the low-cost clinic where they basically forced him to take an ambulance to the hospital.

so yeah... people do choose to die instead of potentially losing their house or their car.

.....aaaaand that's how we get antibiotic-resistant resistant diseases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYhEbjhhcAg

The eggs aren't bleached. They start out white/brown naturally and stay that way.

If by "bleached" you mean "cleaned with water and soapy disinfectant" then yes they are "bleached".

Well, in the continental Europe they are usually not in the fridge in the shop either. You just keep them in the fridge at home just so they last longer. But that's just because usually food in the fridge lasts longer, not because they have to be kept in the cold.

Don't break the circlejerk with facts and reality.

Never have heard of anyone getting salmonella from an egg.

I hate this argument. It's not very well thought out.

If you have been sick for a few days, what do you do? Most people with insurance go see a doc.

Without insurance, you will probably not do that. And when it turns out to be a severe liver infection, or something else life threatening, hopefully you get healthcare before it's too late.

My dad died from a pretty bad cut on his arm because he didn't want to go see a doc and when he did it was too late. He died from sepsis.

So yes, people "choose" to just die, to use your words.

I understand your concern avout those eggs. But do not forget that the amount of fipronil is very very low. You do alot of things daily wich are alot more toxic than eating one or two of those eggs. The amount of fipronil in one of those eggs is by a small margin higher than the max intake per day of 0,0002 milligram per kilogram bodyweight, which is why these eggs are being removed from stores. Important to know is that the LD50 of fipronil is 97miligram per kilogram bodyweight.

Such a misleading title. The video discusses it in detail and yet OP phrases the title like this?

EU Way: Keep the shell coating by not washing them, highly regulate how the eggs are handled each step of the way

US (and others): concentrates on preventing salmonella from entering at the shell. US regulations mandates washing the eggs a certain way.

US methods is less expensive. Lower regulations on the front end and just have them washed later. EU method is more expensive since a lot more caution is involved in each step.

I'm not sure OP even saw the video.

What is this thing with eggs and salmonella?

Actually, the data disagrees with this. In fact an EU report speculates that one of the leading cause of Salmenella in the EU is the lack of refegeration. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22717051)

Here is the rules and regulations for selling eggs in the US (https://www.fda.gov/food/guidanceregulation/guidancedocumentsregulatoryinformation/eggs/default.htm) and I can pretty much guarantee that they are fair more encompasing than any nation in Europe. The a major difference is that the US does not require vaccination for the chickens however their regulations in egg handeling in transportation and storage is far stricter, requiring permanent refregeration throughout transportation.

One can get nasty shit also from vegan sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_outbreak

"The illness was characterized by bloody diarrhea, with a high frequency of serious complications, including hemolytic-uremic syndrome (HUS), a condition that requires urgent treatment."

"Epidemiological fieldwork suggested fresh vegetables were the source of infection. The agriculture minister of Lower Saxony identified an organic farm[1] in Bienenbüttel, Lower Saxony, Germany, which produces a variety of sprouted foods, as the likely source of the E. coli outbreak.[2]"

Look at this guy, turning down free trash eggs.

I took dog medication for an infection because I forgot to renew my health insurance. It was the same as the prescription stuff I get from a doctor just lower dose and cheaper. Got it off of Amazon.

But yours are poisonous

In Denmark they are in the fridge in the supermarket.

This is a really tragic decision that is unfortunately very real. I know people personally who had people in their lives choose death rather than put their family in debt. People in my family still pay for the bills of now deceased relatives that sought hospital care. I don't understand how anyone who has experienced that reality can support anything other than socialized, nationalized or public healthcare.

The US ranks #1 in the world in the Global Food Security Index, and ranks #3 in the Quality and Safety category specifically, higher than every EU nation except France.

I think you mean that because of US regulations, US eggs are 50 times more likely to contain pathogens.

Wait, the washing eggs part is a regulation? I thought it was a practice pursued by the industry for the sake of better visual appearance of eggs. Jeez, that's fucked up.

But isn't this a decent argument that the US healthcaresystem is quite bad?

Why on earth would you think I'm saying anything else?

Of course the U.S. system is horrible. And I say that as someone with a well paying job with almost free, good insurance from my company for my entire family.

The use of salmonella vaccines is the bigger difference.

With the exception of small countries like Denmark who use a strict isolation policy on salmonella, most of the difference is due to vaccinating their chickens against salmonella.

The US system likes the wash and refrigerated system because it's cheaper for the egg farms.

It's almost like people don't care about the facts and just like to smugly shit on the U.S. to make themselves feel better.

I'd be more likely to blame the source of the problem in his situation: the lack of widely affordable or universal healthcare in the States.

God, I hate video sources.

I wish youtube was banned on the sub.

Well, there's plenty of guns here, they're just concentrated in the hands of people that are trained to handle them.

Or choosing not to put themselves and their families in debt.

Yeah, US eggs are cleaned which makes the eggs look nicer, I guess, but reduces their time you can keep them at normal room temperature.

EU eggs stay fresh at room temperature for 3 weeks, plus another week in the fridge. Most also look fine, but you may see some dirt/bird dropping residue/whatever here and there.

Now you're speaking good old fashion American business.

way to break the man

Same in USA, Americans are trained by being born 'Murican. That's how the second amendment works.

You're right it's entirely safe and in other, poorer, countries these eggs would defenitely be sold. The Netherlands however has set high standards for its products and its inhabitants' health and for this reason wants to eradicate poison in products sold in their country to at least insignificant amounts.

Another reason for why the country is trying to eradicate this poison from its eggs is because there is a big chunk of people in the Netherlands who refuse to eat an egg at this point just because the word poisonous is now associated with them.

Interesting, then, to compare the relative rates of salmonella.

US (from CDC):

In 2013, the incidence of salmonellosis in the United States was 15.5 laboratory-confirmed infections per 100,000 population,

EU (European Food Safety Authority, page 4)

In 2013, a total of 82,694 confirmed salmonellosis cases were reported by 27 EU MS, resulting in an EU notification rate of 20.4 cases per 100,000 population.

I just think its funny that, with the Internet literally at your fingertips, so few people actually stop to look things up.

I know the Anti America cjerk is in full force here but I've never once known anyone to get sick from raw eggs here and I eat raw cookie dough frequently(in USA). It's not at all an issue here

Salmonella is a parasite for birds. It doesn't really produce anything valuable to the chicken, it just eats stuff there. It's not particularly infectious (although it can be, for birds that is) but it does keep birds from growing as large as they otherwise would. The reason why you learned it is part of the natural flora is because of how frequent it is, and how parasites are super prevalent in wildlife. But in a controlled environment where you can control not only all food and drink but also housing, where a bird poops, and even things like air flow and temperature, there is no need for Salmonella, and it allows for bigger, more profitable chicken. Source: I'm a veterinarian and I've worked both with wildlife and farm animals

lol wtf I thought America was land of the free. More like land of the fucked.

Actually the reason the US has those insanely strict rules for egg handling and storage is because the eggs are washed in the US, wgich removes a protective barrier that allows for the eggs to keep longer.

European egg lobby.

/sub/europe in a nutshell

Could also be a good source of taxes if you taxed them pretty high

Europe, the post.

I must've eaten 10,000 US eggs in my lifetime and have never gotten sick from eating them. Does anyone? Are they just finding eggs in the trash or something?

"Are there seriously people who choose to "just die" instead of taking on the debt when they're extremely sick?"

There certainly are people who say, are diagnosed with cancer and when they hear they have a 20% change to make it through they go "ok, not putting my family in debt for those chances".

So yes, there are certainly people who are taking dead over debt.

Hell yeah! Now we've got business!

Bacteria in general grow between 4 to 60 degrees Celsius so whatever is in there will grow if kept in this temp range. Of course we learned eggs have less pathogens in the EU, however it's not possible to have completely sterile eggs. With less bacteria to begin with, it takes longer to reach a dangerous number of bacteria (if it contained bacteria species that could cause harm to humans) and therefore you can store it without refrigeration for longer. But it's all a matter of risk and not chilling eggs increases risk :p

DESTROYED

a few grand?

Well, to quote /u/helpmeredditimbored below:

The video says that there has been no study to say which method is better. The data they present only compares England & Wales to the entire US, and even they say that it needs to be taken with a large grain of salt (also it's mostly the UK egg industry that is talked about, while EU regulations are barely mentioned)

The Mad Cow issue specifically was a UK issue mostly. The rest of the EU still has restrictions on beef imports from the UK due to that.

The horse meat scandal is more a culture issue than a quality one. In my country, horse meat is sold as gourmet food. We also were affected by that one, but it was treated as a mislabeling issue and faded out pretty quickly from the public eye.

but it's got an anti-US title so TO THE TOP IT GOES!!!!!

I bet this will get 5000+ karma

You are free to die at home or pay a massive bill with the money you don't have. stupid socialist! /s

Yeah. Sorry about that -_-

Some time ago I was frequenting forums about exotic insect species enthusiasts. One poor soul got bit by a tropical centipede and posted photos of the whole thing. His hand became purple and the size of a melon, and he was getting cold sweats (fever?). He said because he was unemployed the med bills would destroy him so he decided to "sleep it off". After three days I think, the hand started turning normal, and he posted "I survived, thank god it was no fatal lol". The commenters above did NOT freak out but had a retired, defeated tone off "Man that sucks you cant go to the doctor, good luck" or "Man fuck the bills, its worthy it to get financial problems if you don't die". Not once I read a comment saying "WTF dude you crazy?" that you would get in Europe.

This is of course anecdotal , but I hope it gives a glimpse.

the incidence of Salmonella poisoning is estimated to be roughly double in europe compared to the US

also you're paying twice as much

don't let facts get in the way of your America bashing and regulation praise tho

Thats the thing about stats.... You always have to question them. Good work.

I'm just basking in having to return bio eggs for having unsafe chemicals. I feel it proves a point but my wife doesn't agree.

I think the best argument for bio/organic eggs isn't that they're healthier, but that organic farms are nicer to the animals. Sure organic eggs migt be healthier but they could be worse. IIrc they're more likely to be contaminated with pathogens but still fewer antibiotics.

What certainly is different are the standards for the animals. If you have any hope of finding eggs where the male chicklets don't get shredded it's with organic (though most still do that). Organic chickens also at least twice as much stable space (link in German) and need to be let outside. I'm not saying that all organic farms do well, but it's not only that the standards are stricter they're also under more scrutiny.

Edit: missing words

Video is generally a crappy format for conveying information, it's unstructured, unsearchable and slow. It makes little sense for things without narative.

Just out of interest I moved to Denmark from the UK and for some weird reason eggs in Denmark are stored in the fridge. Are they washed like American eggs or is there some other reason for this?

Must be scandinavian thing then. I think they just like things cold.

Mine aren't washed. (Netherlands)

And crows are murdered.

British Lion code of conduct

As a seperate bit of misleadingness, the regulations cited aren't even EU regulations, they're the which is, funnily enough, a British organisation that operates in the UK.

Yeah, multiple thousands of dollars just for the ambulance. Most people's insurance won't kick in until a few thousand dollars too, so an amulance trip is usually gonna be out of pocket.

That's -just- the trip in the ambulance.

But, But america is the greatest country in the world. This got to be wrong.

The insane thing is that they could simply afford universal healthcare FOR LESS THAN WHAT THEY PAY NOW. American healthcare is so inefficient and overpriced, they pay more than double per capita for healthcare than Brits do for the NHS.

It's a real tear-your-hair-out-in-frustration situation.

EDIT: source, updated to say less and double.

I never did, they are not in the fridge in supermarkets.

So wait, how does that jive with the headline? The eggs in America are 50 times more likely to contain the pathogens, but Europeans are 33% more likely to get sick from theirs? That would mean Europeans are massively more likely to get sick from an "infected" egg, since there are far fewer of them (unless Europeans just eat like, a tremendously higher amount of eggs, which I find unlikely).

Does the higher likelihood of pathogens encourage safer/cleaner behaviors by consumers in America? Or just riskier behaviors in Europe? Very interesting!

Yeah, Aldi banned all eggs... although, mine still had some Hessen eggs left. We returned our stinky Dutch eggs for our money back, even though we already ate four.

I'm just basking in having to return bio eggs for having unsafe chemicals. I feel it proves a point but my wife doesn't agree.

if you have a horror-story industrial farm

The farms in EU operate in the same manner. Our regulations are really not that much better.

Portugal is part of Europe too

Big if true.

Kinder surprise is banned in the US so I guess there are people who just swallow the whole thing at once.

Impressive levels of being a bundle of sticks by OP..

Holy shit I would be so dead if I was born in the US. A major Tonsillitis, Appendicitis, and one case of major pain in the lower back (probably Kidney stone) I had my fair share of hospital visits.

Because the meat was being tested for pathogens. No one thought to check it was actually from a cow...

It compared ONE year in 2009 in England/Wales vs average in the US. It should be taken with a grain of salt.

How can anyone think this is normal.

but if the egg came with blood or shit, you would notice and complain and not use that egg.

Or you could realize how nature works and wash it off yourself at home.

show me some evidence you asspussy

the headline was made up by op to sound sensationalist. if you watch the video it clearly states that both methods are safe.

Presumably there are other causes of salmonella included.

Additionally, what kind of data are we comparing? How are salmonella reporting practices different in the EU and USA?

If you store them in the fridge they last longer, regardless if they were washed or not.

Tha is overall, this film deals with eggs.

I just think its funny that, with the Internet literally at your fingertips, so few people actually stop to look if the information they look up actually apply to the product in question.

I must have an AOL CD ROM somewhere... I heard they were everywhere!

No eggs on the moon anyway. Suck it, EU

Mad Cow Disease was awful, but the EU actually fixed that. Back in the day, we had no strict tracking and tracing of each piece of meat. The only way to isolate the Mad Cow disease outbreak in the UK was to destroy all the livestock in huge perimeters, and even then it kept spreading between 1986–1998, when more than 180,000 cattle were infected and 4.4 million slaughtered during the eradication program in the UK alone.

But lo and behold, the EU enacted specific legislation to prevent the spread of the disease. Since then the bar code on each piece of meat tells the supermarket exactly from what slaughterhouse it came, and the slaughterhouse knows exactly from what farm it came. So they can quickly isolate cases.

The horse meat scandal were criminals trying to sell horse meat for other meat, and was actually found out thanks to forced lab testing.

Most of the world learns better visually

Firstly, do they? I've never seen anything which says visual learning is the most common (I have heard that the different types of "learners" is a bit of a myth though). Secondly there's nothing stopping you from having pictures (even animated ones) embedded in text.

Do you get a lot of video formatted textbooks? Video formatted academic papers or government reports? Don't you think there's a reason why any serious information to be conveyed isn't presented by video?