Man, 2 posts in and already the t_d folks are out and angry.
Read up on the Jones act (one of dozens of really effed up things we've done to keep a hold on PR), and realize that PR has basically been screwed over since day one.
And, PR citizens are still considered AMERICAN citizens. Are we just going to pretend that we just don't care about American Citizens now?
I really want to write a 10k character rant on this, but I'm too damn mad.
TL;DR: If you're against 'bailing out PR', you should be equally against bailing out any other area with American citizens after a nasty natural disaster like that.
Having lived in PR for four years, it's a wreck. Having a road with painted lanes is a blessing if that's any indicator. Not sure where the tourism money goes but it's definitely not to the infrastructure.
Don't forget that Trump caused PR to eat the 32 million for his bankrupt golf course financed with their bonds.
I'm no Trump apologist to be certain, however, it would seem his comments (while not the greatest example of tact) merely state the reality of the situation.
PR has been crippled by corruption and debt for decades now. And first responders, FEMA and the military will not, in fact, remain in PR "forever".
That is not to say that the US shouldn't ensure they get back on their feet, however, they must also show the willingness to stand.
It's their fault because most, but not all, puerto ricans don't have to pay federal income taxes.
most puerto ricans don't have to pay federal income taxes.
puerto ricans don't have to pay income taxes.
puerto ricans don't pay income taxes.
puerto ricans don't pay taxes.
FOX NEWS SPECIAL REPORT: Puerto Ricans do not pay taxes!! and they are lazy brown "people"
Mango Mussolini, Trumpster fire, Twitler, Pussy grabber in Chief.
People are taking the mayor's side because Trump sucks. But the mayor has been just as shitty and whiny and unprofessional as Trump and has been exploiting this disaster to score shitty political points.
Very little industry and the tourism industry is weak. GDP per capita is 28k compared to 57k for the US as a whole. They aren't wasting money they don't have...am really sad this misleading comment is the top voted...
Are we just going to pretend that we just don't care about American Citizens now?
Let's be honest, some of them don't care about half of all American citizens.
Hater in Chief
Tweeter in Chief
Snowflake in Chief
Trump's gonna have SO many nicknames by the end of his term
During the campaign, Trump said he would Make America Great Again, but when Puerto Rico gives him an opportunity to fulfill his promise all I hear are excuses.
She's really making light of the term 'genocide'.
You need a /s on that because that’s exactly what most people think.
“Though the Commonwealth government has its own tax laws, Puerto Ricans are also required to pay most US federal taxes, with the major exception being that most residents do not have to pay the federal personal income tax.
In 2009, Puerto Rico paid $3.742 billion into the US Treasury. Residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, and are thus eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement. However, they are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income. The federal taxes paid by Puerto Rico residents include import/export taxes, Federal commodity taxes, social security taxes, among others. Residents also pay federal payroll taxes, such as Social Security and Medicare taxes.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
Copy pasting some context for reddit reactionaries who have absolutely no understanding of the supposed "threats".
Declaring the U.S. territory's electrical grid and infrastructure to have been a “disaster before hurricanes,” Trump wrote Thursday that it will be up to Congress how much federal money to appropriate to the island for its recovery efforts and that relief workers will not stay “forever.” Trump on Thursday sought to shame the territory for its own plight. He tweeted, “Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes.” And he quoted Sharyl Attkisson, a television journalist, as saying, “Puerto Rico survived the Hurricanes, now a financial crisis looms largely of their own making.” He also wrote: “We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!”
These are sentiments that have been echoed by others with knowledge of the situation in Puerto Rico; and he's not "threatening" to cut them off. He's merely stating the truth, that they cannot be there forever. PR must be able to stand on it's legs like any other state.
You can clean house, but there are 3 million Americans with no water, electricity, homes etc. This will last for months. One of the worst humanitarian disasters to hit America and the President has no care.
"We can't stay here forever" is something you say right before leaving or when you're trying to convince others to leave. It's a colloquialism. It means something. He's not just stating random facts about the infinite nature of time or something.
what happened to the genocide she was predicting
bet she STILL hasn't met up with FEMA or done a damn thing with all those pallets of food she was sitting on top of.
fuck this woman. nothing but photo ops with custom shirts she had time to make, instead of getting her ass in gear and distributing the aid being sent to her people like she's supposed to.
Because it's one of our corrupt govenments.
Cause its Anti-Trump.
Welcome to the news cycle on "Default Reddit" enjoy your stay.
Is anyone else starting to feel like the mayor is a bit of a drama queen? Stop the genocide? Trump is an ass and is handling this very poorly but I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole here.
After reading what volunteers have said I'm inclined to side with Trump on this one
Nah, I don't care about Trump like that. It could be Obama or Stark or Comacho up in the White House, for all I care.
The issue stems from the severely lacking 'effort' placed to get Puerto Rico up and running. Cruz isn't helping things by some of her comments, but it's still a thing.
In short, for many folks, the allusion is towards the issues we saw after Hurricane Katrina, and how bad things got with that, and all the political/social fallout.
So now we have a US Territory that basically got wiped out after Hurricane Irma. Their entire infrastructure is in shambles, and folks are having problems with 'the simple stuff' like access to food, water, and electricity.
Puerto Rico had it's own problems prior to all this, much of which can be traced back to it's 'secondary status' in the eyes of the US government.
Add in that there are quite a few explotative laws/etc in place to basically keep PR from getting their feet back under them (Jones Act, et al), there was the belief that as a US Territory, PR would expect a decent amount of help in getting things back up to speed, at least infrastructure-wise.
Instead, most government actions/responses to Irma in Puerto Rico have been half-measures at best, politically spun to eventually put the blame back on Puerto Rico for basically being 'poor', whether or not it was their fault, whether or not there has been almost a century of exploitation and similar BS on the island, and so forth.
Keep in mind that this is the same US government that's happy to send it's military forces all over in order to help/assist with other relief efforts in other countries (like Hurricane Mitch relief back in the 90s), and at least get the bare minimum of necessities up and running.
Soooo..... short answer time:
The US gov't is basically dragging its feet in helping US citizens (PR citizens are US citizens, btw) get their shit back together. The US gov't has had both direct and indirect hands in getting PR to this sorry state in the first place (unemployment rates, shitty economy, etc), but most folks went along with it because 'hey they're basically just like a state but not!'. Now that shit has hit the fan, and PR is really in a state of desperate need and emergency, the US Gov't is treating them like it's not our problem, and we shouldn't be expected to help them.
TL;DR: US Gov't got them into this situation, and is now refusing to get them out of it.
Jesus why did this make the news
Hurricane aside, lets not pretend like PR is a victim here,
What else are we talking about, if not a hurricane? Are you insane? PR was absolutely demolished by a massive category 5 hurricane. They are absolutely a victim and humanitarian aid is needed.
To be fair, that's about the best drag queen name I've ever heard.
I prefer not to get into pissing contests. In the end, you may win, but you end up smelling like piss.
The people need help. The duty is to help them, not ourselves.
Are we talking about Puerto Rico or Kansas?
If you're not aware of how different political corruption in PR is to the mainland US, you really need to make yourself aware.
The mayor is under investigation for withholding aid, find the YouTube video of the PR police officer calling the radio station begging for help because the Mayor wouldn’t do a thing without a camera rolling. This isn’t trumps fault
Oh god, ty. I thought I was the only one that found that tweet like exceptionally absurd.
Great example of a representative's failure to do their duty. The mayor is responsible for her people. In the end she chose herself over her constituents.
Not saying she's wrong or trump is right. But sometimes as a rep you need to swallow your pride. See Christie after Sandy. His party slammed him for it later. The dude may be a toolbag, but that was a good example of a leader doing what needed to be done to find the best outcome for this people.
These guys don't see Puerto Ricans as Americans. Neither does Trump.
Trump is a heartless dumb fuck, but calling it a genocide is equally retarded. Way to discredit yourself Cruz.
The US didn't cause jack shit. Puerto Rico got into their debt crisis because they deliberately took out unpayable loans in the hopes that the US would bail them out.
They and all their creditors tried to take advantage of the system and got burned for it when their gamble didn't pay off.
I sympathize with the people. They didn't do anything to deserve this. The PR government, though, can go fuck themselves.
In regards to the Jones Act and Puerto Rico, rather than listen to news anchors who don't know what they're talking about, here are some facts from someone who actually knew what the Jones Act was before last week.The Jones Act is not hampering relief efforts in Puerto Rico. The supplies are there, the ability to transport them once they are on the island is not. The Jones Act only applies to cargo being moved from one US port to another. A foreign ship cannot load gasoline in Houston and bring it to New York. However, a foreign ship can bring gasoline to New York from places outside the US. Foreign ships DO NOT have to be offloaded in American ports before being transported to Puerto Rico. The news stories in the New York Times as well as CNN are incorrect on their claims otherwise. Foreign-flagged container ships routinely stop at multiple US ports in a row before heading to Europe or back to Asia. The maritime industry is not alone in having cabotage laws. The airline industry also has laws like these. You don't just hop on an Emirates flight from Philadelphia to Boston. Repealing the Jones Act would be the equivalent of allowing Malaysia Airlines to set up domestic service here in the US - weakening homeland security
I will just say that the well accepted economic viewpoint here is that they have difficulty competing with similar Caribbean islands for tourist dollars, in significant part due to their being subject to the US minimum wage, which is much higher than wages (in USD) in said similar island countries.
Due to the lack of demand for tourism, due to higher costs, the LFPR in Puerto Rico is (was, before the hurricane) only ~40%(!), compared to ~63% in the US and ~74% in the Bahamas.
Puerto Rico's higher per capita GDP than say the Bahamas is largely explained by rich outsiders using it as a tax haven.
So their debt and inability to fund infrastructure is due in large part to the social support they have to provide, because they have a low LFPR, because they struggle to compete on a cost basis with similar tourism based islands.
So in case anyone out there has bought into the ideological notion that there can never be any harmful consequences for workers of minimum wage increases, Puerto Rico is a glaring counterexample. Of course under current law there is no way to reduce the wage in PR without reducing it in the US, but that could in theory be changed.
Except that 76% of Puerto Ricans are white...but hey! they speak Spanish so they can't be Americans, they must be Caribbean Mexicans, right?
Does that mean those people should starve?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
The mayor of Puerto Rico's largest city said President Trump is the "Hater in Chief" after Trump said the U.S. response to the crisis in the U.S. territory couldn't last "Forever."
Cruz also issued a striking plea for help from the United Nations and other international aid organizations to "Stop the genocide" in Puerto Rico."I ask the United Nations, UNICEF and the world to stand with the people of Puerto Rico and stop the genocide that will result from the lack of appropriate action of a President that just does not get it," she said.
Trump and Cruz have been feuding since shortly after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico.
Were Texas or Florida bitching about the help that they were recieving? No. Is Trump actually doing a shitty job? No. Is the Jones Act causing problems here? Maybe, but nothing serious.
Honest question by a non-American here. Whose job is it to fix PR, the President's or the Governor's?
From the hurricane damage? Both, with the governor having far less power than the president by virtue of his position. Same as it would be for any storm hitting an actual US state - there's a reason people blamed Bush for the response to Katrina and not Kathleen Blanco.
Louisiana is corrupt as hell. I guess next time hurricanes hit that state we should make condescending comments and watch people die.
Let's be honest, some of them don't care about half of all American citizens.
Sadly, your comment can be taken a number of ways these days.
I love all these people who are suddenly experts on PR and yet don't know the party platform of PPD (Partido Popular Democrático), who the mayor of San Juan represents is about establishing PR as independent and separate from the control of the United States.
She is literally part of the "F-U America" party that voted 4 times against Statehood or closer relations. Then two hurricanes later she is the Left's poster woman for Trump neglect? People in PR know what's up. They know about the corruption, not paying taxes, the only power company filing for bankruptcy despite having the highest prices. No money went into the infrastructure but rather the pockets of politicians.
Trump, for an outsider, is playing this like an expert. He wants receipts tracking where every dollar goes. And for an island that is deeply in undischargeable debt, that is a really smart idea.
The mayor controlled where to send relief aid and even withheld it from certain communities less likely to vote for him. They are not comparable.
I can't tell from up here in my ivory tower, bruh.
It just seems funny that the split second American people are in trouble, instead of helping them out, the spin-doctors try to bring up "should we help them?" instead of "we should help them."
Corruption is deep in PR. Also what plan does PR government have to rebuild? None. All they plan to do is toss their hands up in the air and wait for the US gov to do it for them. People suffer due to their competence and being more interested in playing politics then the interests of their own people.
And this is why everyone who supports Trump is human garbage.
FWIW, this is a fundamental ideological divide between the right and left in the US. The right believes that responsibility is typically up to the states, including the laws they pass and fiscal responsibility. The left believes the federal government should be the main entity dictating laws and fixing state problems. It a never ending debate that swings with elections.
Failing to provide what exactly? Hundreds of troops have deployed in support of relief efforts, resources have been sent there but the local government fails to be leaders. It's amazing how the local government has time to be on TV calling out others. Perhaps they should spend time planning and rebuilding. How is it that the mayor of San Juan stands in front of pallets of food and water suggesting that people are dying of resources. Hmmm... something isn't adding up.
And I can absolutely say all of this with confidence because I have lived thru a hurricane in Puerto Rico that left us without resources for months. Yet we survived. Its exhausting to hear complaining, people need to stop begging and start working.
Fuck outta here with your logical, fact based nonsense. This is a trump hate thread. No place for your kind here.
So we can't give the same amount of humanitarian aid to Puerto Rico that we give to Texas or Florida!? Why do you hate American citizens?
Source for the investigation?
yes she has. she isn't doing her job. she isn't meeting with fema or making sure all the supplies that have been sitting for weeks get delivered. people like her are why PR has shit infrastructure in the first place. Sure, she cries for the camera and takes pictures of her pretending to do her job, but most of her time is standing around doing fuck all or making another custom t-shirt to show the world how much she doesn't like trump.
Which, generally speaking, makes sense at a glance.
But realistically, it isn't.
Let's say we have 10 ships each owned by Tote Maritime, Crowley Maritime, and (i may be wrong here) Trailer Bridge, 30 total. 3 shipping companies allowed to ship from US to Puerto Rico. As you said, Foreign can ship direct to PR if they want, but if they stop off at a US port, that's a no go, and vice versa.
STOP: This right here is automatically bad. This effectively means that if you want to ship something to PR from the US, or vice-versa, no matter who you are or what your hauling, you have to go to those three companies who effectively have a stranglehold on shipping. If you're a foreign country, that means no stop-offs anywhere US related to make some extra cash. Just straight to PR and back. That's like saying Amazon can only deliver to you if it's straight from their main office in Seattle, and if they stop anywhere else, they have to use FedEx to go from their distribution center to your door, because FedEx is one of the only companies allowed to do that. It made a weird bit of oligarchy-flavored sense back in the early 1900s, but not in today's globalized economy. This is just old school protectionism, with its focus on US created, owned, operated ships. Cool? Cool.
Those three shipping companies (usually shipping to PR from Jacksonville FL) have really the only holding/port access in PR. Let's say they can handle the load of 10 ships, so 30 ships total (3 companies * 10 ships worth of containers for sending/receiving). For the purposes of this 'shorthand explanation', let's say that's plenty enough for a week of shipping, holding, loading, unloading, handling, receiving... all that fun stuff you see on youtube when you watch "MUST SEE!!! CONTAINER SHIP UNLOADING!" videos.
STOP: Again, this makes sense at first glance, until you look at the underlying problems it disguises. Those 3 companies have a lock on the 'major routes' between PR and the US. Nobody wants to just ship directly to PR and then the US (and sometimes other countries) because of all these ass-backwards laws, taxes, and tariffs in place if you do. Makes a lot more sense and $$$ to send to a mainland port, dump everything there, and distribute to everywhere else. To reuse the analogy, Amazon won't want to charter a boat just to ship you your trinkets direct, because all the other costs make it foolish to do so. The laws say "Use only FedEx, UPS, and DHL for point-to-point" deliveries, so they do. This means from the beginning, these 3 shipping companies know that they really only need 10 ships worth of space, because there's no rhyme or reason to do anything past that. That's their throughput, it makes sense, and it's worked this way for 50+ years. No reason to expand or innovate if you have a lock on everything, right? Start getting in too many orders, start charging extra for shipping, stops that shit real quick. This is what they do.
So now we have this huge nasty storm, a port roughly filled with a weeks worth of supplies coming and going, and everything goes to shit. Electric lines are all but useless black spaghetti, water infrastructure spits out brown ditch-tea, roads are a shit show, gas/diesel is practically gone, and everything is just a mess. Now Puerto Rico is in full blown 'oh god help' mode, and needs all kinds of rebuilding supplies, emergency supplies, and extra helpings of 'the bare essentials'.
STOP: PR doesn't make shit. Hasn't for a while, and the US saw to most of that. It side-imports what it needs from the US, from only 3 shipping companies that have exploited the Jones Act for maximum profit. Now PR needs a lot of shit, shit that's not in the port, and what's in the ports is a bunch of shit the companies can barely figure out what to do with. They only have enough room for 10 ships worth of shit, and they can't even move whats already there to other places 'to make room' because they're worried about mixing things up, paying out for not refrigerating the right containers, losing funds for slow/no delivery, and the general infrastructure of PR is a mess anyway.
So, now we have an overfull port, a bunch of people teetering on the brink of death/starvation, and a few companies operating out of effectively a single port (or two, depending) stateside, who are now paranoid that any sort of waiver or similar will impact their stranglehold on the shipping routes. They don't even want to 'make room' for these other foreign ships' cargo.
The end result: Shit piles up, companies blame everyone else, Puertorriqueños get to live like Mad Max savages, nothing is being done about the ports/shipping (because NATIONAL SECURITY!!!), and then our US Gov't goes "Well, what do you want us to do about it? This is obviously your fault, probably for being poor!"TL;DR: This shit with the Jones Act has been a 'bad thing' for at least 50 years, if not longer. It just took this horrible calamity to bring it to the forefront, and those 3 companies (and the gov't officials in their pockets) are spinning this into a "not our fault" dog-whistling soundbite to keep those 3 companies 'rich'. It's bullshit.
PS. Places covered by Jones Act:
Places not affected by Jones Act
US Virgin Islands
Northern Mariana Islands
Hyder, Alaska (Sorta)
EDIT: words are hard because mobile.
Well, I mean more response should last forever. Mainland US should help through the worst, but the responsibility of rebuilding the power grid is on them. They need to do a better job of managing their own money and ensure this never happens again. Sure, the mainland should help, but by no means do 100% of the work. I like how she is saying this as she is investigated by the FBI for mishandling the relief already given for political ends.
Every time I see her pop up I cringe. I'm starting to hear rumors that she is also deliberately withholding aid from the people as well.
Are you fucking serious?
when did OP say "mayor of Puerto Rico"?
WTF are you going on about? PR isn't getting less support. They just happen to be the ones who need to get told that this aid is for the hurricane and won't be long term. No one is telling PR that aid will be getting prematurely ended. Christ.
Don't you be bringing no uncomfortable truths on how real life works up into my angry tirade about how life is supposed to work, u/Frank_the_Mighty!!!
Whatever the case “they” who caused the debt problems are not the individuals suffering right now. American citizens everywhere get fucked by the wealthy.
She helped it along by refusing to distribute supplies. She even did an interview in front of pallets of bottled water while complaining about not having water!
440B federal deficit. go ahead and show me where the money is coming from.
Oh right, just run up more debt, its funny money, go wild!
If you want to help PR, there are charities you can donate to. bet you're a very generous donor.
but I know that we cant afford to feed them all.
You really don't know anything, at all. Go back under your bridge, troll.
Weird so theres no relief efforts in PR and several mayors arent currently under federal investigation for witholding aid from the people?
The United States created a clusterfuck by passing legislation that exempted PR bonds from taxes.
How the hell does a country impose sovereignty on a virtual colony and then try to blame that colony for making decisions as a result of the aforementioned sovereignty?
"Hey, we just passed a law that enables you to practically print money with impunity. DON'T DO IT."
"You printed money to cover your deficit like we encouraged you too, well I guess we'll make bankruptcy illegal to cover our asses. Enjoy your massive spike in unemployment!"
Didn't the governor say he's doing a good job, and that the mayor is playing politics?
Good point. They have needed help before the hurricane hit and didn't get any. That's the point you're trying to make, right?
So... fuck 'em? Is that your position? We just let a bunch of Americans return to the 1930s because their politicians are corrupt?
The right believes that responsibility is typically up to the states, including the laws they pass and fiscal responsibility.
Only until their state needs help, then suddenly it's "Come on, Federal government, save us!"
Ah, but selective comprehension is a key strategy for not losing a shitty argument. It doesn't work, but at least they have a strategy kind of.
Yes, the Governor has been praising FEMA throughout most of this.
Yeah I worded that oddly.
America has a duty to help Puerto Rico, but there is fair criticism that someone else put best: a drug addict who loses his home and is living in a tent can't have his tent wiped out and then demand aid to rebuild him a 2000 square foot house.
Nobody can admit that Trump may have a point. I've grown beyond tired of hearing about this fucking mayor.
Oh I get it. You don't know what you're talking about.
She's not dense, she is setting herself up for a run at the governorship. She's even had tshirts made specifically for her media appearances.
On what? Would you care to teach me why its OK to say "Fuck you American citizens! You're on your own because your politicians fucked you over. Enjoy starvation and homelessness!"?
I didn't know we were just throwing that term around now
It gets messy. In theory, disaster relief falls under the role of the various states. However, with marble cake federalism (the different layers mix), a vested interest of the federal government not wanting a state to collapse, and political judgement of the federal President if a response goes badly, the issue gets pushed up somewhat to the federal level.
Right now, the idea is that the Federal Government needs to provide resources for a disaster to help the state rebuild and logistical support when the state has failed to adequately address the issue.
So, the argument is that Puerto Rico has effectively failed as a state due to a hurricane, so it is the Federal Government's responsibility to step in and fix it. Trump's argument is that Puerto Rico has already failed as a state, so it is Puerto Rico's responsibility to rebuild.
The law is really hazy on this.
Support for what? Hurricanes and tornadoes ravage shitty, in debt, portions of the US and there seems to be no problem with aid.
We send a ridiculous amount of aid to overseas countries affected by natural disasters and there's no problem. Puerto Rico has a shitty local government and all of a sudden we need to teach them a lesson?
So we can or cannot give them the same amount of help as Florida and Texas?
The money is already allocated for that. It was one of the first things allocated during this administration. The repairs are underway.
Mayor of San Juan, who this article is about I presume.
The San Juan mayor was a known Trump hater well before the hurricane. Of course she's going to use the suffering of her own people as a club to beat him with. Politics as usual.
Donnie Moscow, Benedict Donald, Red Don, and Putin's Cockholster are my favorites on the russia related threads.
Commander in Thief, Donnie Littlefinger are good for the threads that discuss his thefts like golf security, not divesting or lying about charity.
Did Trump ever feel the need to tell this “truth” to any other disaster victims? Especially three scant weeks after the disasters?
What about Hawaii? Yes it's expensive there but they have a very developed tourist economy. If investors on the east coast wanted they could turn PR into the Caribbean Hawaii: "The Caribbean, no passport needed".
I was born and raised in the Caribbean. Always found weird how even tho Puerto Rico was part of the US its standard of life is very shitty even by Caribbean standards.
I say either grant them statehood or let them be independent so that they can finally self govern.
You do realize the government is the same? Their president is Trump. If the "state" is failing that badly, the government could, and should step in to protect the U.S. Citizens. PR is not a foreign country. They are a part of the U.S.A.
The real problem is we've left PR in a quasi not-a-state-but-beholden-to-the-federal-government-and-its-rules "state". They don't get a lot of the benefits while having to pay mostly like a state.
Those shortfalls fall on the mayor and governor.
Their president is a fucking retard, too.
Implying that every other state is free from corruption.
I don't see the governor or anyone else acting like her, or anyone else who ever had their cities destroyed.
What a heartbreaking soundbyte. You can feel the desperation in her voice.
I don't owe my neighbor nothin! Taxes are bad!
Some magic organization won't show up to start rebuilding infrastructure. Thats PR responsibility with their funding and aid they receive from the feds.