/sub/jailbait has been shut down.

/r/jailbait has been shut down.

I dearly hope no one is going to come in here acting like a victim.

Non-nude photos of minors aren't illegal. But when linking to and PMing nude photos starts to become systematic, it's time to go. There are numerous well-cited examples that have recently popped up demonstrating raunchy rhetoric directed at minors, links to nude archives, and PMs of nude photos.

I would support /sub/jailbait so long as all of its members follow the law. But recently a significant number decided to abandon that. And the resulting consequences for all of reddit so are too great- Reddit can't afford the FBI coming and seizing servers.

I also hope I'm not going to hear a bunch of red herrings about /sub/deadbabies (for example). Complaining about an inconsistent application of social standards/justice doesn't invalidate the various legal and ethical problems associated with /sub/jailbait. Plus, the wider legal consequences are harsher for child pornography than for gore and other stuff like that.

EDIT: For those of you idiots trying to cite /sub/trees as an illegal but allowed reddit, your logic is utterly pathetic. It's a terrible defense. There isn't a huge movement wanting to legalize Child Pornography in the US, unlike with weed. Child Pornography isn't legal in several western countries like weed is (and there are plenty of non-American ents who would experience fewer or no penalties for weed). You don't harm anyone by smoking weed, whereas child pornography can harm the child herself or the reputation of the child. Pictures of weed aren't illegal, whereas pictures of Child Pornography are.

2nd EDIT: OK guys, it's been fun, but I'm tired of arguing with shit-dumb teenagers from Youtube. Here's an amalgamated legal definition of pornography:

Pornography: The representation in books, magazines, photographs, films, and other media of scene...

"Child" Pornography is any example of the above, but involving a minor (not just someone under the age of consent). If you don't like the facts, then I'm sorry, I can't help you.

Want to know why /sub/jailbait was closed down? Because it had gotten too much attention, and I don't mean the CNN kind.

I have browsed /sub/jailbait occasionally before. I have seen comments there. When I was there, I never saw people openly asking for nude pictures in the comment threads.

What happened when the CNN program aired was that it brought attention to the fact that reddit had a /sub/jailbait, and that it contained something which the program called borderline kiddy porn. You know what happened? It brought /sub/jailbait to the attention of hundreds and thousands of people who never knew of the subreddit's existence.

These people did not know the careful balance that was necessary on the less desirable subreddits. They were likely not seasoned reddit users. They did not know that you don't advertise your possession of child porn (which is what the OP in the contentious /sub/jailbait thread did). They did not know that you don't openly ask for PMs in the thread. They brought illegal activity into a subreddit that had for so long toed the line of legality. And they were likely increasing.

The easiest way would be to kill the subreddit. As others have stated, there are other jailbait-ish subreddits around. Or jailbait might be revived under a different name. Sure. And I doubt the admins would have too much problem with that. What I'm guessing they wanted, was to stop the initial flow of undesirables into reddit via /sub/jailbait. And before you tell me that these people can easily find the other undesirable subreddits, let me state again that I am talking about people who did not know of reddit or /sub/jailbait's existence prior to the CNN show. These are not some hardcore pedophiles that I'm talking about. These are kids/idiots who heard about /sub/jailbait on CNN, were curious, and flooded /sub/jailbait due to the show.

All this is conjecture, but I'll be very surprised if what I've stated did not constitute a major factor in the decision to close down /sub/jailbait.

tl;dr - closing down /sub/jailbait is a one-time only thing. relax about your /sub/trees.

Yeah and /sub/beatingwomen and /sub/picsofdeadkids were clearly ok by the precedents set by reddit

/sub/spacedicks is still up though right? Whew, glad we still have some morality left...

Never once visited that sub reddit, but i don't like the precedent set here, not at all.

Thank you for having some fucking sense around here.

I never imagined I would get into the negatives for voicing an opinion against distributing nudes of underage kids, but reddit never ceases to amaze me.

They're too high to take down.

cant forget /sub/niggers

I thought that subreddit ran out on us at birth.

something that is possibly relevant: http://www.reddit.com/sub/WTF/comments/l6neu/dozens_of_reddit_posters_hound_the_op_for_nude/

Agreed. The whole idea of one group of people deciding what is or isn't appropriate to discuss for a different group of people doesn't sit well with me.

I realize that reddit is a private website and thus not legally required to uphold the principles of free speech, but I feel that this is one step down a very slippery slope that puts us all (including reddit) in a bad situation.

EDIT: Apparently a lot of people are seeing the words "slippery slope" and jumping to the wrong conclusion, so I'm just going to address this once here and now so I don't have to keep typing up this explanation.

Yes, if I was making the argument that "If we ban /sub/jailbait then reddit will definitely start banning everything else as well" it would indeed be a logical fallacy. If you look at the context however, this is not what I am saying.

I'm using the term slippery slope as a cautionary warning, not as a premise for a conclusion. I'm saying that it is very easy to move in a direction toward a result that none of us want by moving one small step at a time, and like it or not this was one small step in that direction.

Is it a foregone conclusion that reddit will become draconian with their enforcement and step over the line? Of course not. Anyone who takes my comment to that extreme is just not thinking clearly. However, anyone who can look at this action and not become wary of the precedent that it sets is naive.

Like it or not, the precedent that has been set here is that it is ok to restrict a group's free speech principles (even those who were not engaging in illegal activity) if there is a good enough reason. The problem becomes in the definition of what a "good enough reason" is.

How long until this precedent is used to justify taking down another subreddit? I hope never. I do not however trust those in power to relegate it themselves without oversight, and nobody else should either.

and /sub/blackfathers don't forget that one

That's because asian jail baiters are really like 35 years old.

oooh, can we take down /sub/trees next!?!?!

edit: reposted from a reply below since everyones getting their panties in a bunch -

it was sarcasm.

Sadclowndoesfrown was talking about precedence, and i was hinting at, that since pot is illegal in the US, precedence says that if reddit would like to stay in good standing with society, they should also close down other disagreeable subreddits (trees just happens to be the most popular).

personally i dont care for /sub/trees, but they, ill leave them alone as long as they leave me alone.

not a fan of /sub/jailbait or anything but i totally disagree with it being taken down

Pretty sure /sub/picsofdeadjailbait is still up. The hypocrisy of it all

Good thing discussing marijuana is legal in the United States.

An international community based in the United States.

As far as I could tell /sub/jailbait was kept legal. No nudity allowed.

Meanwhile, there's

/beatingwomen

/picsofdeadkids

/spacedicks

/whiterights

/niggers

And don't forget about /sub/trees. As polite and calm as they may be, you can't deny the fact that the content they are posting is illegal.

It's a shame that the TOP EIGHT comments are all complaining (!) that it got shut down. Many people here seem to have their heads shoved so far up their idealistic assholes that they can't hear a little common sense.

i havent seen /sub/blackfathers since I was 2

I love how /sub/asianjailbait is still up lol. Anderson cooper just brought light to those subreddits

It's one thing to jerk off to them while they are making duckfaces in their bathing suits. Completely another to have 70+ people asking for PM's of nudes of an underage girl.

Edit: To more correctly reflect the actual amount of users that requested CP. The 700+ was an inflated number and a couple of what I can only assume to be subscribers were offended by my exaggeration. My apologies for inflating the numbers. I wouldn't want people to think that more of you look for CP than there actually are.

How about /sub/beatingwomen and /sub/rapingwomen? I still can't believe those exist.

4chan.org is still up

and men

It's especially disheartening because so many redditors see Reddit as the most positive and supportive place on the internet. Sure, if you're a guy who lost his dog, Reddit is right behind you. If you're a 14 year old girl who doesn't want to be jacked off to, you're an enemy of freedom.

It wasn't just a request for child porn; they were actually sending child porn via private message. That crosses the line to a purely criminal activity, which is why it was shut down.

Maybe in your country... as far as I can tell reddit is an INTERNATIONAL community

I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have laughed at that.

The precedent of not allowing communities which encourage - or rather, consist of - posting kids' personal photos as wank material?

I can't fathom how that's a bad precedent.

and so was /sub/jailbait...

Any attempts to take it down will just go up in smoke.

And nothing of value was lost.

let's be blunt. /sub/trees is good.

I wish more posters in this thread read about what happened before defending /sub/jailbait. We know that child pornography was distributed. Get a fucking grip people.

I hope this gets to the top. Too many redditors flipping the fuck out and going on about free-speech not realizing the subreddit wasn't shut down because of Anderson Cooper but because of actual illegal activity. That's probably why /sub/spacedicks and /sub/clopclop still exist and /sub/jailbait is dead. :/

people keep saying 'oh it's a slippery slope' as if the next step is censoring political views or religious views or some shit. here's what happened:

there was a subreddit well known outside the reddit community EXPLICITLY CALLED /sub/jailbait which both directly and indirectly endorsed pedophilia

it was shut down

This does not mean that Reddit admins will go off on some power trip shutting down every subreddit they disagree with, so everyone riding the wave of delusional moral superiority for karma should just relax and go back to jerking off to /sub/gonewild

I agree, /sub/jailbait even had a bad habbit of digging up girls facebook profiles who simply were unfortunate enough to be snapped in public by a pervy redditor. They would dig up the profile then repost all the pictures etc they could find.

I remember two of the mods openly mocking a girls older brother for demanding they remove the links, personal info, facebook profile link etc. The bulk community thought it was hilarious and proceeded to e-stalk and e-bully the girl and her brother even further.

GOOD.

Anyone crying over censorship needs to realise that reddit never owed you a platform. I'm glad for this on behalf of the teen girls exploring their sexuality, stupidly but understandably sharing the photos with their peers. They're not mature enough to predict their photographs getting outside of their peer group and being shared among creepers; as adults it's our responsibility to protect them, not exploit them.

I think this is what it comes down to. Despite what some people claim, there was illegal activity going on in this subreddit. It was turning into a facade for illegal picture swapping. The other cited subreddits, as grotesque as I may personally find them, haven't yet turned into this.

It's not a slippery slope, as far as I can see, it's a line in the sand that jailbait crossed.

There was a post in /sub/wtf last night where in jailbait someone posted a pic of their ex's ass (with sexy underwear) someone asked if the OP had more and he said he did but they were nudes (and this was pics of a 14 year old girl) then OP got flood requested with everyone to PM the pics. Its disgusting.

Edit: added source.

probably because they ban users who post CP and report them to the FBI

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that this makes me more comfortable about being on Reddit, not less. Can't particularly say that I'm worried about any sort of slippery slope.

I am a little "eeeeh" about the fact that there are still all the other subreddits similar in nature that exist, but I'm sure that we'll see something about why those are up and jailbait isn't in the next few dyas.

I really don't want to check if these are real.

I really don't want people to know I checked if these were real.

FTFY

I believe the sub-reddit was shut down because of the recent requests for child porn, and of course the Anderson Cooper fiasco.

Here's my question though, and I want everyone to chime in because I feel this will set the precedent for Reddit for quite some time.

If a sub-reddit is

a) causing negative attention to Reddit.

b) involved in an illegal practice. (Again, I know this is debatable with this specific sub)

c) has a controversial Mod (Sorry, but Violentacrez just is)

Does it deserve to be shut down? Should it be? I believe we now know the answer to "Can it be?".

Why do you truly think this sub-reddit was shut down?

The saddest part is that it's not a "slippery slope".

The admins have allowed jailbait to exist for a long time, against the terms of service. It was just now banned likely because it had crossed a LEGAL line.

They haven't shut down other subreddits, because they have the same freedom that the admins allowed /sub/jailbait to have.

The only "slippery slope" is that of the users. How illegal are the users willing to get before having their subreddit(s) shut down?

I'm glad that this has come about, because it brings up the discussion of how much freedom this site has allowed us for a very long time.

They have given us so much freedom that the only thing restricting our freedom is the laws governing the company that keeps this site running every day of the year.

Respect.

We abused the admins. Not the other way around.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Everyone likes to take a stand for free speech without realizing that this was a very serious crime

/deadjailbait is still up. Apparently jailbait's ok if they're dead.

That's the biggest thing that bothered me when I saw /sub/jailbait, that most of these girls didn't know that people were taking their pictures off the web and reposting them to another website. People can say "they're clothed (mostly), what's the big deal?". Exploiting minors online without their consent is the big deal.

I don't know if you heard, but in case you didn't, people were trading legitimately illegal child porn on it through PM. Steps across that 'federally illegal' line that Reddit doesn't want to cross.

I thought this was a joke. I laughed anyways.

As long as /sub/whalebait never gets shut down I am good to go.

First they came for /sub/jailbait, and I didn't speak out because I don't subscribe to /sub/jailbait.

Then they came for /sub/ronpaul, and I didn't speak out because I don't subscribe to /sub/ronpaul.

Then they came for /sub/cooperjailbait, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

By the way, http://www.reddit.com/sub/cooperjailbait is still alive and strong.

As disgusting as /sub/jailbait was, it sucks that Reddit is only a "free speech site" until a few people disagree with said speech.

From what I gathered, the intent of the subreddit was foul but stayed on the proper side of the law. If there were users violating the law, Reddit admins should have banned them and reported their IPs to the appropriate authorities.

I wish people would realize that is the reason the subreddit was shut down. As long as they remained within the legal realm of clothed girls then it would have withstood the scrutiny from the outside media. It was when so many requests for PMs of child pornography occurred that reddit realized they had a problem.

True, but there was nothing illegal about /sub/jailbait. If people misbehave in a similar manner on /sub/pics do we shut that down too? We can ban the user and do our best to moderate illegal content, but the precedent set by this decision could have very negative effects on reddit.

The whole idea of one group of people deciding what is or isn't appropriate to discuss for a different group of people doesn't sit well with me.

You mean the US government and their pornography laws?

I'm pretty sure fears over that is what shut it down. Wasn't there some main paged thread about people trading it on there?

I think if people started actually dealing drugs through /sub/trees they would probably shut it down too.

begin shitstorm of a thousand replacement subreddits...

Link to that post for the lazy.

I was thinking what could be the real reason behind this action and I really think you nailed it on the head. Admins know that shutting down anything on here is futile considering the dynamic nature of subreddits.

Just having a stopping block from the flow of CNN watchers though will probably work out just fine like it is.

Underage girls?

or /sub/tailbait

cant forget that either

No, Anderson Cooper hasn't found those yet.

A recent front-paged post showed a person implying the existence of, then a large lump of people begging for, nude pictures of a 14 year-old girl. Things were quickly getting out of hand

Good.

Jesus fucking christ reddit. how is this even an issue.

Not where I work.

reddit mods can't even deal with reposts.

I dont know why CNN would bitch after playing the nigga nigga nigga song for the old lady

this is probably why.

the second and third comment shown is just makes it worse.

is probably why.

the second and third comment shown is just makes it worse.

The admins cracked under the pressure. They don't give a shit about the content, just the brewing storm. If the community, or CNN, raises hell about /sub/picsofdeadjailbait, it would most likely be closed, as well.

I really don't want to check if these are real.

Official admin post.

http://www.reddit.com/sub/violentacrez/comments/l7mde/the_admins_have_decided_to_shut_down_rjailb...

Violentacrez (moderator) interview with Gawker about malcontent.

http://www.reddit.com/sub/violentacrez/comments/l7p9a/heres_what_adrian_chen_from_gawker_asked_me...

Agreed, the subreddit was taken down for moral issues and not legal ones. Once we start deciding what is and isn't morally acceptable, we are now censoring people who do not share the same moral values as us. Slippery slope.

Oh my god. I thought it was going to be whales. Oh my god.

Jailbait is, at best, legal grey area. This is why it's banned on 4chan and most imageboards. US law does NOT require nudity for a photo to be considered child porn - and yes, the way the law works, someone posting a photo of themselves to facebook and someone else posting the same thing to... well, there isn't really a better term for what /sub/jailbait was than "softcore porn"... can very well be the difference between legal and and not. I wouldn't want to see reddit targeted for that.

Also, I'd challenge you to show illegal content on /sub/trees. Discussion of illegal activity, sure, but the only thing you'd find on /sub/trees that's actually illegal is soliciting or selling - and that's outright banned, and the mods are very good about it.

yep, started with a picture of a '14 yr old girlfriend but this is the only non-nude I have lol'. Followed by page after page of 'dude, post or link them to us'. Or to put in public relations terms - soliciting and advertising of actual child pornography.

Fancying younger people is not inherently wrong. And I wouldnt ever come out as saying that a guy who has feelings for a girl maybe 16/17 is a paedophile.

However, having a board solely for the sharing of images of underage girls, for the near sole purpose of sexual gratification for the men/women on that board, is a bit more than seeing a girl in the street and thinking she's hot.

Yes, Reddit does have illegal activities broadcast, /sub/trees for example, but again, the comparison between a board about marijuana, and a board about young teen girls would be a difficult one to make.

No, we dont shut down /sub/pics but that is because /sub/pics would not be considered a suitable place for such content, the user would be at fault. In many ways id say nowhere is suitable for the intentional sharing of images like that.

And dont leap on me saying that you should be allowed t think what you want about younger girls, I fully support your ability to do so, but acting on them and leering over the facebook pictures of those girls is an entirely different thing, especially in such a public area.

I imagine they'll become threatening to reddits structural integrity the day after CNN does a 22 minute exposé on them, too.

the problem with that is that /sub/jailbait WASN'T being moderated. That thread got really big last night, and there was nary a mod to step in.

If a sub-r can't prolice itself, it will be policed. Done.

Yes, good thing there are plenty of other subreddits with similar/more disturbing content still up and running. Not that I agree with what they did, but unless they plan on cracking down hard on all "tasteless" subreddits, this is like trying to fix a dam leak with a piece of scotch tape.

People are also stupid. Pornography and nudity aren't the same thing; clothed pictures can be pornographic. The point of /sub/jailbait being to publish arousing pictures of minors means that by definition much of the stuff on there, nude or not, was arguably pornographic.

Obviously, the lack of consent is just disgusting, though even with consent it shouldn't really be allowed. I didn't know the situation over there until now--I assumed it was mostly teenagers posting pictures of themselves--and knowing what is really going on makes it even worse.

Oh, and by the way, for everyone saying "oh, we can't let reddit just shut down stuff that's bad, it's a bad precedent," stop and think for a minute. The website has been covered in the press in a negative light thanks to /sub/jailbait. We've provided a forum for people who like to look at pictures of underage girls to meet other people who like to look at pictures of underage girls--and that's a bad thing. It's not a question of legality (and btw, nothing on /sub/trees is overtly illegal--possessing, using, or selling weed is illegal in the US but talking about weed isn't, nor is depicting its usage, though again I don't really know what goes on over there). It's a question of reputation.

No, the subreddit was taken down because a large number of people openly traded CP yesterday.

In CNN's defence; that old lady was 200% nigga.

Anything but /sub/trees O_O

cooperjailbait may be the most hilarious thing ive seen in a while

And so is /sub/malejailbait, shutting down /sub/jailbait was a ridiculous move anyway.

I will just go ahead and leave this here.../sub/clopclop

THANK YOU. Finally, some sense!

EDIT: To those of you decrying that CP is protected under free speech: think again: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_United_States

Complaining about unequal application of the rules isn't really a justification for keeping it either. As others have piped up, the two are not equal. Fireflash38 makes an excellent point.

Reddit, by being a conduit for the distribution of illegal material is being made an accessory to some very serious crimes here. Under tort law, reddit's owners and operators are liable for illegal activities posted by its users, especially if they do nothing to resolve the problem. Can you say §1983 case? Reddit made 100% the right decision here.

Then we would have to have a Legalize /sub/trees movement.

its only so bong...

Wait, wait, I can do this.

...bong...

Fuck, too high.

It was also confirmed that CP was traded via PM.

I don't think those bastards will mind.

It isn't like shutting down one subreddit is somehow going to stop people sending whatever they want through private messages.

Not my thing either, but bowing to CNN is ridiculous.

jailbait banned on 4chan?

...

HAHAHAHAHA

I really have no issue with Reddit preserving it's own ass if this is the case. I understand all the concern over censorship and such, but jesus, it's only worth it to a point. I mean, is it really worth taking down an entire site, with tons of niche and not so niche subreddits just so we can say that content is never censored? They are jerking it to pictures of little girls, they sort of asked for it.

Although this doesn't really address the fact that there are at least a dozen other jailbait-esque subs, and that jailbait will probably be reincarnated in some other fashion in no time at all. It's really just the company covering itself.

Or you know... you could actually have moderators that do their job. 4chan has been notorious outside of its userbase for being a "haven" for child pornography. There are protocols for moderators there when it does appear and it's taken down, the poster is IP banned, and in some cases people are contacted.