Spikes aren't fixing homelessness. They're fixing trespassing.
I mean, yeah it sucks how we treat our homeless people, but I can hardly blame the building owner. They don't want people sleeping on their property because it hurts their business, is that such a crime? If they had to resort to installing spikes, this is probably a long-term ongoing issue.
Blame the government, not them.
I don't think "Homelessness" is the problem they were trying to solve.
There's a parking garage in my city where homeless people frequent. There is shit and piss and trash everywhere, I completely understand and support these spikes
Yeah its the piss and shit all over their doorstep they don't want
And pissing and shitting in their doorways, and leaving used needles around, and hassling people for money, and fighting each other for spots etc.
The disparity between the upvotes for this post and all the top comments is probably the most stark difference I've ever seen in a post.
Mark Hicks, who has lived in the building for a year, said: ‘I think they’re a very good idea. We used to come back and find drunk homeless people in the doorway, which is not very nice at all. If it stops that, it’s great.’
Another long-time resident, who asked to remain anonymous, added: ‘There is a huge problem with rough sleepers here.
‘I have female friends in the building who are scared to come home at night because they have been intimidated and threatened by homeless people in the doorway. It’s about time something has been done about this.
Our modern welfare state offers this man plenty of free shelters which will offer him a clean bed and food as well as counselling services, funded by the taxes paid by people who live in those very buildings. The Western first world society that this sign is criticizing is uncommonly empathetic to those who do not contribute very much to society.
This sign is actually one of the key problems of the neo-progressivism that dominates Reddit: It places the demands of some unsuccessful collective (in this case drunk homeless people) over the rights of individuals who don't want their property filled with drunk squatters.
Not to mention that spikes only exacerbate the homelessness issue. It's well known that stepping on them causes you to
Agreed - I don't get it either.
There are people that wouldn't go into this business if there were a homeless person sleeping there. So should the business decide to just go out of business and create more jobless homeless people in the process?
This was in London, in front of a private condo where the homeless guy was repeatedly sleeping rather than the government provided homeless shelters, which are funded by the taxes paid by the very people who live in those condos.
Not for nothing, but that looks like private property. If a homeless man decides to set up camp on my front porch I might do something to dissuade him from staying there too.
This is the correct response
Homelessness is something we need to fix, but it is reasonable for a property owner to not want people sleeping outside the door.
I work for a municipal government. We had a stairwell that leads down to the parking garage, it's not heated but certainly a lot warmer than outside. It was no secret that homeless people would sleep there in the Winter and the "higher-ups" just let it be. Then they started pissing and shitting IN THE STAIRWELL, as well as leaving old spoons and various paraphernalia everywhere. Unsurprisingly, it is now unavailable to the public.
i think the guy is directing this more towards society which is at fault here, not the business owner directly. if we collectively as a society wouldn't look at homeless people as people to ignore/despise but instead people that needed help, the issue wouldn't exist. of course our society is driven by personal self interest-- which isn't a terribly bad thing as it has helped our species progress to where we are now. i guess the next step is to move past it but i don't think that'll happen for a long time.
Does the homelessness issue need to be addressed? Yes. Can the owner of private property make sure people aren't sleeping in front of their door? Yes.
It isn't that business' fault that the guy is homeless and has no obligation to help him.
Guy in the article said that private property should start at the walls of the house. God, I'm as progressive as it gets but these people are fucking insane. If I pay for a house that includes a yard/steps/patio you can bet that I don't want a fucking stranger sleeping there.
You mean shit and piss and trash
A better tactic would be to hire professional homeless people to sleep in front of buildings.
This way unemployed homeless people have no space to sleep and go elsewhere instead of holding signs.
Bonus if you give the professional hobo a suit and tie to sleep in, to really class up the business front.
10k upvotes but everyone in the comments is siding with the business owner lol. The madness!
Edit: I was simply making an observation of the upvotes vs comments. I wouldn't want homeless in front of my place of business either!
Wtf, if i owned a business or any other property that had a problem with homeless people sleeping on it i might get spikes too. Imagine showing up to work and having to fear the dirty homeless guy who might be mentally ill sleeping buy the door. Then you have to shoo him off which might just provoke his anger. There's a perfectly good public park somewhere go sleep there. Them being homeless sounds like their problem. Feeling safe on my own property or while at work sounds like my or my employer's priority.
I wonder, do people in this thread have a problem with fences too?
What kind of society do we live in where a sub that supposed to be about sharing interesting photographs is nothing but pictures of signs and politicians headshots?
I used to work in a store at the bad side of town. Nothing kept people out of our store more than the homeless people who would lay down right next to the front door asking every person for change. And they were there ALL THE TIME. I wish our strip mall had homeless spikes. Not to "hurt" the homeless, but simply to keep panhandlers from camping in front of our store all day.
You can say how immoral these things are, but until you try running a business where every customer is accosted at the front door, you won't understand why these are necessary for your own good. Instead of using all your effort to get these spikes removed from businesses, use all your effort to find help for these people so the spikes are not needed in the first place.
absolutely. everyone wants to act like they understand until they've stepped in human shit themselves
At my work we have a covered stairwell as well. We didn't care all that much because they didn't affect the business. Now we find piss every month or so. Now we have to care. Not because they're there, because they are literally pissing their opportunity away.
As someone who has been homeless I have to say this is not the correct way to address trespassers. A lot of the time trespassing homeless people are simply looking to get out of poor weather... these spikes will not prevent someone from temporarily loitering especially if they have been homeless since nineteen ninety eight when the undertaker threw mankind off hell in a cell, and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.
I live about a half mile from a homeless shelter. Most of the homeless in the area go there. Those who don't are definitely a nuisance, as cruel as that sounds to say. I get that they may be dealing with additional problems - most likely addiction, which prevents them from being allowed into the shelter. But on the other hand, I live here and I don't think it's unfair to want my neighborhood to be maintained in a presentable way.
I 100% agree with you that both desires are reasonable: the desire to help the homeless, and the desire not to have people sleeping in the doorway, panhandling aggressively, or intimidating people.
Seriously, it would even be fine if they just slept there. The problem is that they're fucking nasty and don't care about anything. They piss and shit everywhere, they leave their garbage everywhere, some of them are ridiculously aggressive to other people without a reason. One of them tried to hit my dog and then me with a metal bar. Dirty needles were an awesome to find, too!
And yes I know, not every homeless is like that. But this doesn't change the fact that homeless people in general are a problem.
OH MY GOD
I had no idea superscript could be grouped using parenthesis. This changes everything.
Good thing you used fences. If you had said walls the answer would have been yes.
All of these sjw like to stand up for homeless people but I've lived near a homeless shelter and it's horrible. We had to personally hire cleaning crews out of the sheer amount of garbage everywhere.
I wholeheartedly agree, property owners have every right to dissuade the homeless from their property
Coming from a PDX native and former SF resident, good on the owner of the building. 96% of homeless leave a trail of trash, bodily waste, used drug paraphernalia, and vandalization behind.
Guy in the article said that private property should start at the walls of the house.
Spoken like somebody that doesn't have to deal with someone sleeping/pissing/shitting on their front step.
Somebody Else's Problem, indeed.
You don't get to sleep wherever you want just because you don't have a specific place to do so.
Besides if it bugs him so much, he probably wanted to keep returning and make it "his" spot.
Well it's not just homeless ness, it's drugs and crime that come along with it. Many people want to pretend that all homeless people are people who just are down on their luck and need a break. They don't realize that there are plenty of homeless that are that way because of their criminal life style.
We had a building that had to put stones behind their building to keep people from using it. Of course people complained that it was anti-homeless. I had to point out that as someone who cleaned it, it was being used as a toilet for people to urinate and deficate on this business property. When those people responded about their being a portable toilet a block away, I had to show them pictures of all the human waste a block away from the toilet. I had to show them pictures of the endless needles and drug items left behind.
The bank that made those changes likely would not have done so if people were ONLY sleeping on the property. But they weren't. They were using the business as a toilet, a place to do drugs, sell drugs, and someone had recently been shot in a feud between two drug dealers.
People have tried to help those homeless by offering medical help, and every possible kind of help only to be refused. They were not interested in anything but drugs. They did not want medical attention. They did not want help finding jobs.
But because those users, dealers, criminals just happened to be homeless, it gets painted as being anti-homeless.
I think too many people who make arguments like the one in the meme don't actually spend much time with the homeless. I have taken homeless into my home only to find them out sleeping in the part instead of the private room with a warm bed because they can't do their drugs in the warm home.
Just because someone is homeless does not make them a good person and it's not fair to assume they are just so you can pretend you are a better person while not really doing anything to help anyone.
Preventing homeless people from camping (which includes pissing and shitting on the sidewalk, using drugs and leaving needles laying around, aggressively panhandling passersby etc etc) is absolutely a public good. If you think it's just about looking nice then you obviously don't deal with managing property.
This is why homeless people become homeless... they literally piss and shit away every single opportunity and support network they have, until they are on the street. Many of them have mental issues that allow this to happen, others simply don't care about the world or themselves. It's sad, sad.
If I gave every homeless person I saw 10 dollars I would have no fucking money. Right after I was out of college I wanted to badly to say "look, you may have 0 money, but I have literally -20,000 dollars. So I need everythign I can get as I work my ass off to hopefully get a job to support myself"
Much better than what they are doing in Colombia. Ever heard of social cleansing? It's the act of going out and killing homeless people. Property owners hire para-military groups or pay the police who then go to the property and chase out any street kid or bum living there. This is done by shooting at them, burning them to make an example, to be honest it's purge level type shit.
Here's a video about it done by Vice.
Edit: Just sharing insight in how other countries treat their homeless, not trying to make a statement or compare/diminish suffering.
WHAT KIND OF A SOCIETY DO WE LIVE IN WHERE DOORS HAVE TO HAVE LOCKS ON THEM!??!!
Quit fuckin loitering.
As somebody who has stepped in human shit, who's cleaned up needles and who's generally dealt with the detritus of homeless people, I understand the problems they face. They get chased around, driven out of anywhere they settle in, regardless of how remote it is from 'public' areas. They have to deal with robbery, rape, assault and murder, very little of which the police are going to bother with.
It's a horrible, degrading lifestyle. And it breaks some people, if they weren't already broken.
If this guy were holding a sign that said "What kind of society do we live in where homelessness is solved with deadbolts?" while standing outside of suburban homes he would be strongly ridiculed by the same people supporting his message now, even though both basically state the same thing:
"Devices that prevent homeless people from sleeping on someone else's private property are the result of a morally repugnant society."
Which is obviously a ridiculous claim, none of the people that agree with this guy are going to unlock the doors of their house so that homeless people can come over and sleep in vacant rooms, but for some reason fail to grasp that commercial buildings are also someone's private property. They should be granted the same privacy and protections as any other.
People in this thread have already made great points about how the presence of homeless people around a commercial building can seriously impact that buildings business, safety, and value.
Those things are certainly true and are pretty commonly used to justify these kinds of preventative designs - but I feel like its kind of ridiculous that businesses and building owners have to justify not wanting their private property to be used as unpaid campground any more than people have to justify not wanting strangers sleeping in their home while they aren't home.
It is sad that there is as much of a homelessness problem as there is, it really sucks that the amount of help available for the homeless is so limited and that programs to prevent it in the first place are so rare... but those are issues that need to be addressed governmentally and private property owners should not be expected to shoulder the burdens caused by a failure to govern.
I personally leave my door open at night for anyone to walk into my house
Yea I'm super ok with it. There are lots of resources and safe places to sleep that aren't on my fucking door step
A good majority of homeless people are mentally ill and need psychiatric help. Not to be treated like shit
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Virtue signaling via upvote is even easier than writing a comment about how it's reasonable not to want people sleeping in your entrance.
Exactly, who would have guessed a property owner doesn't want random people to scare their tenants or trash their property. I'm not denying homelessness is a large issue but this definitely has nothing to do with homelessness.
The reason why they're hostile is because many of them suffer from severe psychological problems. Our mental health services are a joke.
man with sign
Downtown ours have eerie blue lights so people can't find a vein.
Bathrooms are locked unless you're a customer for a reason.
This is why department stores have the worst bathrooms downtown.
look I wholeheartedly believe in having compassion for every human being as we are all in this together but this is a double-edged sword. Lots of homeless have serious mental issues and/or are addicted to drugs. This can lead to destructive/violent behavior, urination/defecation in public, and one of the worse cases is some of these fuckers are pedophiles that expose themselves to children at playgrounds and shit so how do you solve these problems? One way is deterring their use of specific public places. Adding the cruelty of removing people's blankets in below freezing temps (CO) I absolutely do not condone but we really have to understand nothing is black and white.
My dad used to run a home for these guys and it really changed my view on the homeless. While a few (one or two in our program) were legitimately looking for help and got on their feet, basically every single other one there was content just abusing it as a free apartment and food for nothing in return. They even had the nerve to complain that we bought store brand macaroni and cheese instead of Kraft.
While I'm sure there are plenty of homeless people truly looking for a hand up, the majority of ones I've had the experience of helping just wanted handouts. I wish my experience wasn't as such. I really do.
Yeah people want to act all high and mighty. I worked at a small local bar, homeless people would sleep on our patio, in our doorways, sneak in and bathe and shave in our bathrooms, they'd shit on the floors, piss on the walls, bother customers for money, threaten to kill me when I told them to leave.
It's all they can do you mean.
So we can agree that, with our without the spikes on the ground, the majority of them won't get the help they need?
In that case, the spikes do not affect the problem in literally any way at all.
New to walmart, inflatable homeless people!
This. There are so many homeless people that I would pass on my way to classes, and they'd always ask for money. I don't even have money to feed myself. Hell, I don't eat 2 - 3 times a week because I can't afford it. Yet these people would give me dirty looks for not giving them free money.
My experience for a while when I worked in the city. Morning routine: Get to work early, open the shop, clean the emptys and litter off the step, if required pressure wash the piss and sometimes worse out of the corner of the doorway before the first customer arrives.
When I was in college I was super poor so I got "thrifty" with rolling the dice on a sketchy apartment complex.
We had a homeless guy in our dumpster. Found that out when I tossed in my first bag of trash and hit him. Found out it was an issue all over the complex. We had really big dumpsters.
Then I realized he went through all our trash. Every bag, piece of paper, etc. I noticed a lot of tenants would hoarde their trash until pick up day and take it all then to prevent this (I started this as well).
He would sleep in our stairwells when it rained. He took a dumpster mattress and had that as well that he kept on the side of the building. The morning it was taken by the trash folks... oh hell. He screamed at all of us. It scared me. He was always yelling and ranting and raving but that morning I was honestly scared he was going to come up and touch me and hurt me.
I had a... sort of boyfriend? Casual boyfriend? Who was a morning DJ so he'd leave super early when he spent the night and I remember one morning waking up to the clock radio and he's basically recanting his run in that morning with the dude in the stairwell because rudely boyfriend woke him up by opening the door so he got screamed and ranted at. He warned me on air that the dude was in the stairwell and not to leave from that door because he was scared for me.
When the city removed the refunds on aluminum a lot of the homeless moved elsewhere. Including this guy. It was a huge problem and for the life of me I never understood why the complex let it continue. Probably one of the reasons it was so cheap. I felt for him for being homeless, that being said, it wasn't expressly my fault and I wasn't in a position to fix it or help him. I could barely afford to feed myself. It was a bad situation and I always felt bad being angry about him... but God he was so scary.
I'm on the Reddit app, took me way to long to figure why so many posts had a bunch of ^ in their posts I thought it some new fad. I learned it makes the letters small, so what actually happening here?
Edit: I love that Reddit users are so willing to help a guy out, especially when it sinks you further down the Reddit hole :)
What annoys me even more is all those people occupying my toilet with their cars.
How would an anonymous upvote count as virtue signaling? No one knows who upvoted or downvoted anything.
Uhh no man I'd still have a problem with someone sleeping at my front door even if they "cleaned up after themselves".
OP should let homeless people sleep on his property, that is unless he's trying to just gather karma and doesn't believe in actually helping them
And thats just the women.
And if you buy them food, a lot of them don't want it. They just want money.
EDIT: Obviously not every homeless person is like this, I'm not "against" homeless people, but a lot of them are addicts and just want money. I used to be homeless a lot of years ago so I have some first hand experience. Unedited comment from 9 days ago where I mention being homeless before
Not really though. Spikes are often put on public property (underneath bridges and popular sheltered areas) not just on privately owned places. Obviously you have the right to spike up your own property, but why would municipalities use taxpayer money to make the place 'look' nicer. The homeless people it affects are just going to move to some slightly more shitty location to stay in. And I didn't mean to say that no spikes are used to fix trespassing; whenever it is done privately this is the case.
While I agree homelessness is a problem, it's not that buildings responsibility to house that person. Those spikes were installed for a reason, tenants/customers/employees of that building, more than likely complained about the vagrants to the property manager, whose job is to remedy those complaints. In these situations, usually the managers will just have them escorted of property, but then they come back. This cycle continues till the manager gets tired of it and does something like this. While the spikes seem cruel, what would the difference be if the just put a large potted plant there instead. It's still kicks the homeless person out, but it's more aesthetically pleasing. This was just a cheaper option.
It's an endless spiral man, can't these guys catch a break :(
Because it costs money for those municipalities to go in and pick up all the garbage that is left out there when camps pop up. Not only packaging from things these people are eating and discarding but also their excrement.
I've never seen spikes in public areas where I live but I do see homeless people and the mess they tend to leave behind so I can understand the reasoning.
It's gets smaller the more you use it.
Whoever set up this automoderator action is my hero.
No more shall /u/sneakymorph /u/shittymorph bamboozle me.
With most problems with no easy answer, it's the people who know the least about the issue who feel most qualified to pass judgement.
The main street in my college campus has around 4 - 5 homeless people per block. They're very aggressive. I have been sworn at and have been chased for not giving them my money. But I don't even have enough money to eat everyday. :(
I just have to say that because of mental illness, sometimes avoiding homeless people can be a matter of safety.
I believe we need to improve our outlook of mental illness as a society and work harder on it and put more money toward fighting it.
Mark: Private property, in my opinion, is behind the doors – not on the street.
Ok well that's great but that's not how the law works.
Idk what the fuck is up with vice. A good deal of their reporting on wars/conflicts/crazy shit happening is really good, but their purely written articles always seem to be garbage.
I have a relative who owns property, before they installed security cameras they noticed that piss stains began to appear on the hallway carpet. After the cameras they saw how many homeless people would come in to the foyer and sleep and piss on the floors. Foyer has to be unlocked because there are other businesses and it's a fire safety thing.
They're not trying to solve homelessness. They're trying to run a civilized business.
In the UK at least it's almost always because of heroin
My grandpa came out of work onetime and a homeless guy asked him for money. He said he didn't have any but he'd buy him a burger from the McDonald's down the road. Gave him the food and as he was leaving the homeless guy was trying to return the food for a refund.
Well..Even when I was homeless man I stayed away from other homeless. For good reason.
I still help em out here and there. But I own a home I don't let homeless dudes crash on my couch man. I would'nt let homeless dudes pitch a tent in my back yard.
Now...If I owned some wooded property next to my home. I would let one homeless guy camp in it. But I'm a 33 yr old male and own guns. For say a 52yr old female a homeless man on a bender can be a lot more of a threat.
If I owned a business I'd allow a homeless person to panhandle on the corner of the property WITH A SIGN. If he verbally ASKS for shit and honestly if he tries to strike up to many conversations even. I'm throwing him out. As far as sleeping in an alcove??? If it's in the BACK maybe...even then nowadays you allow that your liable if the person gets injured let's not forget.
There is noway I would allow homeless dude to sleep in front of my bussiness.
Welp, political posts that are just insults, photoshops that are clearly photoshops and DRAWINGS even are allowed and upvoted heavily on this sub, so don't go coming here for legitimate pictures.
Political garbage posting example: https://www.reddit.com/sub/pics/comments/606t52/your_teacher_called_me_today/
There would be no issue if there was common courtesy. If you sleep there and make a mess, clean up after yourself. No prob. If you treat someone's livelihood as your personal outhouse like they do in SF then everyone will lack pity.
This is actually intelligent to prevent drug use a bit
I'm in PDX as well. You'll never truly get across how bad the homeless problem is here to people who aren't from the area.
Our homeless are a different breed. Our homeless set up camps in people's yards, and when the homeowner tells them to leave they shrug and say "Nope. Deal with it." and the cops won't do a damn thing unless they're causing a disturbance.
The spikes help move the problem elsewhere, which is all that the business owners care about
especially considering that, in my experience when I was homeless, a lot of the ones sleeping on the street are there because they got kicked out of the shelters for bad behaviour.
Those resources and safe spaces are also places that we, as a society, fund and establish with tax money. I definitely understand why some of those places are far from ideal, and why many homeless people don't want to go there, but it's ridiculous to criticize "society" in this case.
Homelessness isn't solved with spikes lmao, nobody thinks you can live in a spike. The problem that gets solved is drunk bums pissing or shitting all over your building, harassing your customers, etc.
I live in a city that has so many opportunities and ways for homeless people to get off the streets with a bare minimum of effort until they can 'get back into society' but because it involves things like rehab and sticking to the rules they drop out of it constantly, after a while it's hard to feel sorry for the repeat offenders.
Edit: A word
They won't last any longer on spikes than real homeless people
Short of locking them up or forcing them to take mind altering drugs, what can be done that will keep mentally ill homeless people off the street?
I mean this as a real question, not rhetorical