@SenSanders: We shouldn't throw 13 million people off of health insurance to give more money to billionaires and corporations. I can't believe we even have to say that.

@SenSanders: We shouldn't throw 13 million people off of health insurance to give more money to b...
13 million people being kicked off the health insurance they currently have will result in ~15,662 needless deaths every year. Here's what you can do to help, if that voice in your head doesn't get in the way.  

STAND UP! FIGHT BACK!


The House is voting on this plan Today.  

Get involved: http://notonepenny.org/take-action
Speak up: Call Congress at 888-654-1854
Show up: http://act.indivisible.org/event/local-actions/search/    


Edit: H.R.1, the House version, has passed. Now the Senate version is up for a vote:  

There's a good opportunity for Senators to stand up for the American people: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-06/john-mccain-confirms-tax-reform-doa-senate  

But: @StevenTDennis


I've spoken to Collins, Murkowski, McCain. Not a one has issued a 100% veto threat against repealing the individual mandate in the tax bill.


Do not let up until it's official:

Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121
https://resistbot.io
https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain
https://twitter.com/LisaMurkowski
https://twitter.com/SenatorCollins

13 million people being kicked off the health insurance they currently have will result in ~15,662 needless deaths every year. Here's what you can do to help, if that voice in your head doesn't get in the way.

STAND UP! FIGHT BACK!

The House is voting on this plan Today.

Get involved: http://notonepenny.org/take-action Speak up: Call Congress at 888-654-1854 Show up: http://act.indivisible.org/event/local-actions/search/

Edit: H.R.1, the House version, has passed. Now the Senate version is up for a vote:

There's a good opportunity for Senators to stand up for the American people: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-06/john-mccain-confirms-tax-reform-doa-senate

But: @StevenTDennis

I've spoken to Collins, Murkowski, McCain. Not a one has issued a 100% veto threat against repealing the individual mandate in the tax bill.

Do not let up until :

Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121 https://resistbot.io https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain https://twitter.com/LisaMurkowski https://twitter.com/SenatorCollins

I am sorry, i am not at all a conspiracy nut, but what happens in the US in recent decades looks more and more like someone is intentionally trying to cull the lower classes.

Its just so senseless.

Just lost my health insurance due to Trump and republicans. I will have to pay 300+ a month to get it back. I work fast food and go to school so that would be my entire check. Thanks guys.

This hurts the middle-class too. It will turn the middle-class families into the scraping-by class.

Yes, just as you buy roads, schooling, military, police, and fire services.

Already there, can't do much more scraping

Suck it up. Pull yourself up by your boot straps. Go to college. Do something with your life. Stop doing the dumb stuff you're doing and do it better. /s

Can you explain how Trump and the Republicans made you lose your health insurance?

Well, just taking a look at what Trump specifically has done to the ACA, he ended the subsidies that were being paid to the insurance companies to keep premiums down. And since open enrollment is in full swing right now for most (all?) insurance companies, I wouldn't be surprised if the person you're responding to got a nice letter from their insurance company telling them that their rate is going to spike next year to keep the same plan, and there's nothing they can do about it. So you either lose coverage starting January 1st, or you eat the huge income hit to continue having insurance.

I'd say that that's pretty straightforward cause and effect, and Trump and the Republicans knew it would happen and are happy to watch it happen while blaming the ACA. They made a decision that is undeniably bad for the American people, and continue to deflect blame.

I only work part time, and make ~$900 a month. The cheapest insurance I qualify for is $450 a month.

Not giving up half my yearly income for insurance.

The CBO.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/11/8/16623154/cbo-...

Conservative/Libertarian checking in. I sub here and occasionally have some very interesting and constructive discussions with you kind folks.

Without malice:

What is the argument to justify/support the claim that “13 Million people will be thrown off of health insurance to give more money to billionaires and corporations.”?

My interpretation is that this is hyperbole, but I’m curious to hear the point of view from y’alls side.

Honest answer, yes.

And if you are allowed to opt out of insurance, and are then diagnosed with cancer or get into a life threatening car wreck that wasn't your fault, should we just let you die if you can't pay for treatment?

What about if your wife/child/mother is in that situation and you don't have the money to save them... Should we let them die?

What if millions of healthy people opt out of purchasing health insurance, causing the price of health insurance for a hard-working but low-income family to be able to afford insurance... Should we let their kid die if (s)he is diagnosed with cancer?

If everyone pays, everyone benefits. If you are healthy today, you'll need Healthcare in the future. I hate the ACA as The solution, but it is the first step towards universal Healthcare, and I like that.

Get a better job or work more you lazy piece of shit. Quit eating so many avocados!

imo the ideal would be for it to work roughly the same way as those services, and not involve people being forced to do business with private companies. Being fined for not choosing a private fire department to have a contract with would be a distinct step backwards.

Honest question. Do u think I should be forced to buy healthcare?

What health insurance? You mean the insanely high deductible, high premium insurance Heathcare.gov offers? Or are we talking legitimate, useful heath insurance? Because there is a difference. Having health insurance is not the same as having good health insurance.

The CBO is a non-partisan commission designed to calculate the true cost of legislation to create a common basis for which all debate over spending measures can be conducted.

The CBO is calculating how many people would quit paying for insurance. The first order effect would be that people are no longer required to sign up for healthcare. Many would argue that the freedom of choice is a good thing, and I am not arguing with that.

But a second order effect takes into consideration the continuation of the "Pre-existing Conditions" clause stating that no person can be denied, or given different rates for the same care, for having a pre-existing condition. In theory, this means that all people who choose not to pay for health insurance, can purchase insurance the moment they get sick, and therefore must be covered at exactly the same rate as everyone else who had been that whole time. Insurance premiums will rise exponentially until the cost of insurance is approaches the cost of the healthcare itself as there would be no incentive to pay for insurance until you are sick. However, this process would be very slow, and the CBO projects the effect of a bill to 10 years.

Under the current law, citizens who are uninsured cost others directly through the cost of their insurance, and tax payers through the cost of ERs. It is your right to choose, but at the same time your rights end where other's rights begin (i.e. You have Freedom of Speech but are prohibited from yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre). This is very much the case, where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Is the ACA perfect? Absolutely not, but its the best we have, as evidenced by the Republicans inability to repeal the ACA without also harming millions of Americans. In fact, if it was implemented as intended with the inclusion of the Medicaid expansion, it would be much, much better, but politics were more important than the health and well-being of other Americans.

There are better solutions for healthcare that completely repeal the ACA, but none that eliminate the "Individual Mandate". This is because Healthcare is already a public good, in the form of ERs, Medicaid, and even your private insurance (because not everyone pays their bills, so the collective must cover the difference).

This debate really gets boiled down to two different camps, either everyone gets affordable Healthcare, or Healthcare is only reserved for the privileged and wealthy. Personally, I'd rather not live in the latter and find it immoral; your opinion on which you prefer may be different, and that is okay. To try to cobble an effective solution between the two is impossible, thus the "Individual Mandate" must stand. There are a multitude of models other modern countries use for healthcare, and I am not saying we should choose one. They all work well in their own ways, but all of them have some form of the "Individual Mandate".

Rather, I'd prefer a system with an "Individual Mandate" and a public option to compete on prices with the private market. Or, framed in a better way, there could be a "Private Insurance Tax Credit" with everyone otherwise covered automatically by a public option that is paid for through taxes.

Return them to*

For robber barons and captains of industry, the pre-1920s are the good ol' days, back before anti trust laws, food and drug regulations, child labor restrictions, lady voters, etc.

I understand that - but these people would now be able to voluntarily withdraw from the market; they wouldn’t be “thrown off”.

No, but the people who could no longer afford the insurance due to 10% (or more) premium hikes would be "thrown off". The insurance rates are already sky-high, and lower-income folks would have that much more difficulty affording them.

distills it quite clearly

We should have done it from the start.

All we need is to double the current Medicare tax and we would be able to do it. The current Medicare tax covers 80% of the health needs of everybody over the age of 65, if they pay of r Part B it pays even better.

The current Medicare tax is 2.9%

It would amount to $120 a month on a salary of $50,000.

And I do believe if you lose your job and no longer can pay in, you should be covered under Medicaid, which should then logically cover all of your emergency care but not cover as much as the plan for those who are working covers; it's simply a matter of fairness.

Private insurance would be like mandating that I pay McDonalds $50 a month to feed hungry people.

What are your thoughts on Medicare For All?

You know what I'm tired of pussy footing around on this. Yes I think everyone should be required to pay for health insurance, preferably through reasonable taxation.

Yes, I think that you should be required to have health insurance and that you should pay something towards it. Get offended if you want but this is my stance.

Yes, I think you should be forced to buy health insurance.

Interesting how the wording can shift the tone of that statement, isn't it?

Insurance should be affordable

No, just turn them into unhealthy wage slaves.

Fuck off with your demand that I buy a private For Profit instrument that by design is supposed to maximize company profit at the expense of policy holder benefits. FUCK OFF WITH THAT BULLSHIT!

Can we not get tangled in the details ? Let's carry on and put billions in the pockets of insurers, care providers and pharma corporations while pretending we're only doing it so we won't "give more money to billionaires and corporations".

Literally Australian government logic, stop eating those smashed avos and get a house deposit mate

This is a great response - let me give it a once over and get back to you with any follow-up!

How does the repeal of a mandate equate to people being thrown off?

There are fair criticisms to this repeal, absolutely - I just think it’s somewhat disingenuous (and unnecessary, in this case) to fall into this sort of rhetoric.

It doesn't make you evil but I imagine it does make you rather naive. What problems do you think America currently has that will be solved by reducing taxes for millionaires and billionaires?

Then why are people supporting bills that do just that? Why are politicians supporting these bills?

Actually, no, and I'm not sure where you got that idea. Unless you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said and what Bernie stands for, but nobody ever does that.

Bernie is for socialized healthcare for everyone, that would regulate the healthcare and insurance industries and use the existing tax structure to divide the costs fairly among the American people. But he, and the Democrats, know that continuing to support the ACA until a better system is put in place is the only solution right now that doesn't kill people by denying them insurance. Letting the ACA fall apart now, without a new plan in place, is just about the worst thing that could happen for the American people.

The Republicans and Trump know that the plans they've presented are terrible for the majority of people, and have thus decided that holding the US hostage by dismantling the ACA without a new plan in place is the only way to get their plan pushed through. And in the meantime, until we give in, people die.

Seriously. ACA was the best thing to happen to the health insurance business.

I've been saying the same thing.

Nope. And I never said I thought people who like tax cuts are evil. However this tax bill is giving huge tax cuts to the wealthiest and not giving tax cuts to the poor and middle class. In many cases the poor and middle class will end up paying more taxes.

Now if you believe in trickle down economics and think this may somehow benefit everyone you aren't evil, you are just wrong. If you believe that this tax bill will give tax breaks to everyone and not just the super rich then you aren't evil, you are just wrong.

But if you support this bill you are supporting tax cuts to large corporations and billionaires.

None of them care. Millions die a year from pollution and global warming, but the ones who control the planet, dont care. Do you think they will care about another 15k people a year? Ha. Nope.

They're actually trying to do this to weed out the population. Its easier to avoid revenge/prosecution if you backstab people instead of stabbing them in their face.

ACA is undeniably bad for the American people

source needed. regurgitating soundbytes from FNC isn't a source, btw.

The GOP tax bill is giving tax cuts to billionaires and large corporations. Any politician who supports this bill is supporting tax cuts to billionaires and large corporations. As far as I can tell most of the GOP supports this bill.

Pollution is the largest environmental cause of disease and premature death in the world today. Diseases caused by pollution were responsible for an estimated 9 million premature deaths in 2015—16% of all deaths worldwide—three times more deaths than from AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria combined and 15 times more than from all wars and other forms of violence. In the most severely affected countries, pollution-related disease is responsible for more than one death in four.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32345-0/abstract

Quality affordable health care would help while we transition away from dependence on fossil fuels to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. In the bigger picture the Koch brother's ideology must be addressed. A moral economy is imperative in addressing our worldwide mental health epidemic of corruption. We must tie our vested interests to the common interests, apathy and greed cannot be allowed to continue unbridled.

I understand that - but these people would now be able to voluntarily withdraw from the market; they wouldn’t be “thrown off”.

Paul Krugman (once you skip away the dramatic stuff) explains the three legs of the program pretty well.

The main point is the law was designed to stand on three legs. Take one away and the other two cannot function by themselves. So removing the individual mandate is somewhat equivalent to "repeal and don't replace," and maybe worse. Because then you have a broken law that the insurers need to conform to. And since the administration plans to stop subsidy payments (part of leg 3) what you have left is insurance companies still have their hands tied in terms of plans they can offer or to whom, but there's no system to support the law in place.

That's what you got from that? I'm not sure how I can spell it out so that you'll understand, since you seem determined to misinterpret everything I say. I'm done, so go shitpost to someone else. I hope you are never in a situation where you have to decide if a visit to the hospital is worth it, because you aren't sure you can afford it.

From the article:

The mandate requires every American to have health insurance or pay a penalty. It’s the Affordable Care Act’s incentive for young and healthy people to buy insurance. Without it, healthier people would be expected to drop out of the market, which then increases insurance premiums. The CBO estimated premiums on the marketplaces would go up 10 percent if the mandate were repealed.

All for capitalism, yet you admit it basically fucked up US healthcare. Give me one reason how capitalism is better than a mixed economy like in Europe.

No, everyone should receive Medicare IMO. But until that's in place deductibles, copayments, & premiums are too high. Prescription drug costs are outrageous.

Thousands of Americans would needlessly die every year if it were repealed at this point.

It allows 32 million people health insurance who otherwise wouldn't have it over the next decade, including 17 million who would lose their health insurance next year alone.

In the short term the market could be helped to stabilize by:

enforcing the individual mandate because a lot of money is being lost that is not coming into the system dealing with cost sharing

Our job is to guarantee health care to all, not create a situation where 60 million Americans would have no health insurance.

-Bernie

But it can be and is elsewhere. There are decent countries that have 'free'(yes I know) healthcare that still take less % in taxes from their people overall compared to us. I'd like a little more of my money to go towards helping our own over blowing up brown people