Can't help but notice the FSB's neat little trick here... "your opponent Hillary is being helped by the Russians, don't YOU want to be helped by the Russians at the very least to expose her being helped by the Russians?! Also, we have no evidence she's being helped by the Russians."
Ha! Yes, I loved the bit about "this might be happening but you'll have to do more research."
It kills me that these chumps think they're "winning" when the Russians have been playing them like a fiddle this whole time. I'd say this is "Sad!" except Americans will continue to lose until these clowns are no longer in charge.
This makes sense. We knew the meeting wasn't a lobbying effort for Russian adoptions, because Putin himself blocked adoptions, not the U. S. The meeting was a demand to lift sanctions in exchange for Clinton dirt.
Oh look, here's a report from Bannon-headed institute published about a month later, alleging Hillary was receiving illicit funds from Russia.
And what a coincidence, Breitbart picked it up and ran with it two days later.
Credit to usawasfun and Gorgonaut666, but can't u tag them.
DJTJ said she started going on about adoptions, and mentioned the Magnitsky act. That is a Russian sanction that Putin hated so much that Russia banned Americans from adopting Russian children. Jr. screwed up when he decided to make something up for what they talked about, and then said that, which may well be the partial truth.
They brought the dirt, they talked about sanctions, and the only evidence we have that they didn't go through with a deal is because the guy who's lied every step of the way says so.
I want people to consider the absurdity that a country with less than 25% of our GDP is succeeding at influencing the most powerful and wealthy country in the world.
Here is the AP story that it seems to be based on
Less than 25%? It's like 5% of our GDP.
Is this a credible source? I've never heard of it.
"She then changed subjects and began discussing the adoption of Russian children and mentioned the Magnitsky Act," he said.
He even said the FUCKING NAME OF THE RUSSIAN SANCTION. He's a fucking idiot.
Edit: Not shouting at you, shouting at Donald John "I'm a fucking moron" Trump Jr.
I'd like to point out that the information being described here sounds an awful lot like the 'exclusive investigation' report Steve Bannon's GAI issued the next month, From Russia With Money (pdf link), which, of course, Breitbart ran with, too.
Don't forget the first statement Junior released that mentioned adoptions was signed off by Senior. The word is Senior and White House aids worked on the statement on Air Force One returning from Europe.
As soon as I read the statement, all I had to do was google "Russian adoptions" and read for 5 minutes to know about Maginsky etc.
You know Trump doesn't realize the access we have to information now. He thought he could pull something over by hiding behind "I was just helping kids". Every aide would have told him that was a terrible idea, if they weren't sycophants and yes men/women.
Edited for clarity
Here's a fun world map with countries resized by GDP. Hard to even tell which little sliver is Russia.
I think this is how the Russians staged it. Just them evening the score.
Because anyone who has known anything about Trump for more than five minutes can see that his ego controls him and it would be very easy to say, "Yes, you're being screwed. Wouldn't you like to get even with them?" Now imagine what a foreign intelligence agency could do to the idiot when they spend months profiling him, meeting with him, pumping him for information, and generally learning everything they can about him. Trump was out of his depth in New York real estate, let alone when he's trying to play global politics with professional spies and people like Putin.
Russians have been playing them like a fiddle [balalaika] this whole time.
I have been of the opinion that Trump genuinely thought the election was rigged for Hilary. A lot of his actions make even less sense than usual if he didn't
I think this is how the Russians staged it. Just them evening the score.
There's a reason the FBI is investigating links between Breitbart and Russian Intel. operatives.
William Marshall, Vonetta McGee, Denise Nicholas
Director: William Crain; Writers: Joan Torres, Raymond Koenig
IMDb user rating: ★★★★★☆☆☆☆☆ 5.6/10 (4,333 votes)
An ancient African prince, turned into a vampire by Dracula himself, finds himself in modern Los Angeles.
Russia's basically Mexico with nukes.
The story is citing AP, Reuters, and Agence France-Presse, all of which are top-tier news agencies.
Go home bot, u drunk.
Russians aren't stupid, they know that a conman like Trump think everyone cheats because they cheat, so cheating is fair. That is Trump's mindset, and Russians played him like him like a fiddle.
That could be us in a few decades if we don't clean ship.
They're not because of Mueller. I'd bet everything I have that the editors and him have been in direct contact about what to withhold because of the magnitude and how sensitive the info is. This is Russian counterintelligence, conspiracy, espionage, treason, etc. tied to POTUS, that goes beyond clicks. They fully know what's at stake.
Plus very sensitive and classified operations and those a part of them could be compromised unless the proper precautions are taken, which they obviously can't do themselves.
If they really want to bring him down, which we all know they do, they know Mueller is the best way to do that in this moment.
Trump was there too.
holy fuck, JAPAN.
Damn. There were so many statements on that meeting we need to be more clear. I think the one you linked was his second or third. This was his very first statement, before he admitted to the Hillary info.
Donald Trump Jr., July 8 statement: It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time and there was no follow up. I was asked to attend the meeting by an acquaintance, but was not told the name of the person I would be meeting with beforehand.
My theory: everything we suspect about this meeting is true. The Trump's and campaign were idiots for taking the meeting and Russia took every care to document it's existence, events, etc.
Trump and Putin meet at the G-20. Putin demands fall of sanctions, Tillerson stands up for the US opposing this for obvious political and technical reasons. Trump gets shut down instead of promising.
Russia then carefully leaks information for the NYT report confirming reporter suspicions with evidence and sources. Russians agree to talk putting pressure on Trump jr/Trump himself letting more info out each day to keep the story rolling. Trump jr. releases emails to try and stop the leaks but doesn't comprehend how much info Russia has on it all.
Much of the reports line up with the Steele Dossier because, shocker, it is mostly true but lacked the precise details and sources we now have. This entire effort is another act by Russia to influence US politics following through with a threat to Trump/Tillerson at the G-20 after Tillersom refused. Trump probably new something would happen but, being wholly incompetent, did not see all this coming. He has now taken it personally and will defend his son in every way we have seen and more probably not even giving in if Jr goes to jail.
Putin doesn't care who leads the US as long as he has dirt that can help paralyze the government and people sowing chaos and leaving him to do his own thing. He cares about the sanctions and would love to have them raised (and so would Trump for personal benefit and no more leaks) but is also happy to continue sabotaging things.
This is further backed by Flynn who probably had similar dirt held by Russia that could be used to compromise him. In this case Tillerson stepped in and stopped the president from directly committing treason to protect his son to the benefit of the us public with this story exposed.
It doesn't end here. There will be more about this meeting and other contact. At the time jr/kushner/manafort/etc didn't understand this was, even if beneficial to the campaign, a giant counter intelligence move to gain blackmail material.
Trump and his administration (and imo gorsuch) must step down immediately not simply recuse themselves. All appointments must be held and those already confirmed resign. Mueller must drop all info to show corruption by other actors like Paul Ryan if it exists forcing the GOP house to select a new speaker and follow the order of succession.
Here it is in Time.
I could believe that. They fed him lies about Hillary and then he fed them to everyone else.
What a perfect stooge. I mean, I seriously can't think of anyone else they could have chosen who would have been more easily manipulated. And who lies with more gusto? Un-fucking-believable.
i don't think GDP has anything to do with it. when you purposely keep the bulk of your population poorly educated to make it easy for you to control; it also makes it easy for pretty much anyone else to control or influence.
Wasn't the NY Times writer who originally broke the story supposed to reveal the name of the eighth person "shortly"? What happened to that? I've been checking this place religiously since then, but I haven't seen anything yet.
Oh man. That really does fit with... just about everything.
It explains his apparently genuine opinion that this is a totally unfair witch hunt, despite him being guilty as sin, as well as his baffling continuing obsession with Hilary. He probably desperately wants to reveal to everyone that Hilary was "working with the Russians". Unfortunately to do so he'd have to reveal that he got that information by... working with the Russians.
He got played so fucking hard.
Yep. He lied every step of the way. Why exactly does anyone believe him now when he says that he didn't follow through and ACTUALLY collude? (Rhetorical, I know they're idiots, willingly blind, or didn't read the article and just trust Trump)
Came here to say this.
The rumours on Twitter is that NYT WaPo and likely nbc all have big stories about the presidents personal involvement, both in the known meeting and beyond. For some reason the news orgs are holding them back - hence the NYT reporter going silent after tweeting about the 8th person.
Back in the 1980s, Japan was the China. They were worried Japan would overtake the US economy.
So, it wasn't just a meeting about adoptions. Even when they say they are being transparent and acting truthful....just shows how above the fray these 1% they are.
I think Mueller might be interested in the contents of that folder.
"No puppet, no puppet..."
They both were poisoned (if you believe the Russians)...is it just me or did Team Trump just walk right into the old Princess Bride trap?
A few decades is way too short of a time frame. There's one simple reason: the US dollar. There's 10 trillion dollars of long term debt (20-30 years) denominated in USD. This effectively means that the rest of the world is at the mercy of what we do with our currency. Even with the current level of governmental ineptitude, it will take 100 years for the US to not control the world economy.
Months..... it's been years. He first went in 1987.
This is what wikipedia says:
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) is a United States government-funded broadcasting organization that provides news, information, and analysis to countries in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and the Middle East, where it claims "the free flow of information is either banned by government authorities or not fully developed". RFE/RL is a 501(c)(3) corporation that receives U.S. government funding and is supervised by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, an agency overseeing all U.S. federal government international broadcasting services.
So, in essence, I'd suspect it's US propaganda in those named regions.
Well...they are winning for now. Which is sad, frustrating, horrifying - you name it.
Trump won the Presidency, his businesses are having money funneled into them given that he is now the President which should horrify and anger us all. His children are benefiting from his Presidency, his donors are thrilled, the GOP seems content given that Trump is stacking the judiciary (and will continue to stack the judiciary) just the way they like it. Worse comes to worst for the GOP, Trump is set up to be the perfect fall guy so that none of the other GOP, the "family" as Paul Ryan liked to say, gets harmed in this potentially.
Trump's making coin for himself, his family and friends and he's the President. He's definitely winning. The question is...for how much longer?
I'd think of it more NPR, or as the BBC is to Great Britain. They have a West centric pro democracy bias but work to report factually to the area. Propaganda might be a bit strong.
"Adoptions" is shorthand/plausible deniability about sanctions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dima_Yakovlev_Law
I think probably looking through the eyeholes on one of the pictures scooby-doo villain style.
Except the reason they're good at THIS is precisely BECAUSE they have such shit GDP.
The entire active measures campaign for the fifty years or so that they've ran it probably costs less than the fucking F-35 they're building.
They lost the cold war because we outspent them and collapsed their economy. So they change the paradigm. Why fight a military war, when you can fight a psychological war?
Meanwhile our geopolitical dominance has made us weak and soft domestically. Our voting system is ancient and stupid, but it doesn't behoove politicians to update it, so they don't, and we don't give a shit so long as we're safe from turrirists, so we don't ask them to.
Where have I heard this before?
There may have been millions of illegally cast votes, we have zero evidence, but well have to do more research.
A great effort
No basis for believing anything any of the participants say happened in the meeting. Need to get them in eight separate rooms and then compare the stories.
This is my favorite part of the article:
The Russian government has denied any involvement or knowledge of the meeting. Asked Friday about Akhmetshin, Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters: "We don't know anything about this person."
...you never go full Mariah, ya dumb Kremlinistas!
I think Manafort just forgot that he can't do the same shit in the US as he could in Ukraine.
So.. the talking point a few days ago was:
No information was gained from the meeting, therefor not illegal!
Now we know that they received information on Clinton. What will the defense be this time? Where are they going to move the goal posts to?
Don Jr is like Edward Snowden. Sure, he broke the law. But he broke it to shed a light on Clinton's illegal activity!
"I didn't even GET the information from the meeting"
"We have evidence that you did actually get that information"
"Yeah but...I wasn't smart enough to know what it was"
I see in that article them mentioning she brought a folder containing information but it doesn't say that it was handed over to DJr and that he left with it. So now they'll just add a 10th amendment to their statement: "She did bring oppo research but it's not like we actually took it. So NBD still!"
the link is coMING FROM INSIDE THE white HOUSE!
For some reason the news orgs are holding them back
I've heard that they've been asked to hold off on certain stories until Meuller gives the okay. Then again, I heard that on reddit so take that for what it's worth.
The really big question, to me, is what the fuck Manafort was thinking. He's not a "political novice" and knows what is getting extremely close to "black edge" information. And if this doesn't directly count as black edge, it's clearly uncomfortably right on the line.
Has he gotten so used the no holds barred Eastern European campaigns? Wouldn't he even have a inkling of a Admiral Akbar moment? Was he clueless? Was he brazen enough not to see how the optics would play out if found out?
There's something really fucky going on here.
If your curious go over to /sub/askthe_donald . I was lurking there all morning and it's astounding how much the goal post have moved.
I literally ended up having a conversation with someone who said JR never lied. When confronted with quotes that show he lied his response was "jr has no legal obligation to the media, so it's not illegal".
It's not illegal is pretty much the only response they have left.
We're out of useful things for bots to do so now they troll.
Yup. He's said many, many, many times that he loves to "get even" with anyone who "screws" him, no matter what it takes.
This was already reported. See upthread links to Time and AP.
I read that document when someone else posted it the other day, and while I know very little about this stuff, it struck me that the cautions about partnering with Russia on cybersecurity turned out to be a bad idea as warned, and despite the best of intentions on the 'reset', Clinton and the DNC got played as much as Trump seems to have been. Putin really did a number on us.
Id be INCONSOLABLE. shit thats not it...
It is pretty ridiculous that a country that shouldn't even bother us is somehow succeeding at influencing us. It'd make far more sense if this WAS CHINA, not in the bottom ranking of the G-20.
The Kremlin isn't dumb. They're really smart in that they're using a regime in another country for financial profit and to gain power. They set it up in a way to where they have a "fall guy," with that guy being the Trump administration.
It seems the primary goal is just to sow distrust and doubt in American (and other Western) institutions, to undermine their credibility and basically create conflict and chaos. So.. mission fucking accomplished, there.
I'm sure they'd love to get other things out of this (like removing sanctions or getting other beneficial policies put in place or what have you), but that's probably more icing on the cake than anything. Plus at this point it's pretty damn obvious what happened - at least in a very general sense - so there's probably not much sense in trying to hide anything. Maybe better to just tank Dorito Mussolini and create even more chaos.
Don't forget the first statement Jr. released that mentioned adoptions was signed off by Sr. Word is Sr and White House aids worked on the statement on Air Force One returning from Europe.
It had to re-read this several times before it made sense. I kept trying to figure out who this Señor Word guy is.
Don't forget the first statement Junior released that mentioned adoptions was signed off by Senior. The word is that Senior and White House aids worked on the statement on Air Force One returning from Europe.
This is what you are saying, right? I swear I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting your point correctly and not trying to be a grammar nazi.
Right?? It's legit bothering me. And it's bothering me that no commentators are even probing the question, I mean we know Kushner and Jr aren't the brightest... but Manafort? He delegate whipped some three or four GOP Presidental conventions, pretty much started the modern lobbying industry, and has a huge network of fundraising outfits.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
I didn't want to do the proper calculations so I thought about the number and found a percentage it was less then, but that's still Less than 25% :P
I see this every other day or so now but never from a URL that I recognize. Anyone else have another source? This says it was cobbled by AP and Reuters, surely one of the big papers has an article on it?
I wonder why we didn't see a larger push on this. Surely they would have milked any info they had on question campaign contributions for all it was worth?
but they sure think we are
aren't we? They flooded the internet with propaganda and a large portion this country (on both sides, the left is not innocent of this either) ate it up and asked for seconds and then we elected a literal obviously incompetent unqualified corrupt asshole that had no clue what he was doing. We ARE that stupid.
U.S....and with trump having a real white trash family , where he can barely string a sentence together it is obvious they vote for the least educated candidate.
AFAIK that rumor started in the Twitter conspiracy camp. It's plausible, but I wouldn't go beyond that.
That's a bold username you have there.
He tried to make something up, and the only thing his tiny brain could come up with was the Russian sanction they actually discussed in the meeting. He's a moron.
Propaganda exists because propaganda works.
It's hard for me to fault people for believing "news" when they never received a solid education about how to think critically (edit: about media). The majority of adults grew up in a world where you got your news from one of the major national papers, and if you wanted to get it from TV you had your local 6:00 news and then the national broadcast.
There wasn't a 24-7 news cycle or the ridiculous conservative talk radio until the '90s. You could trust your sources for news. And there wasn't this incredible onslaught of shady, fly-by-night information sources until really just this past election cycle.
Add to that the fact that Roger Ailes and the GOP worked on creating the overload of conservative disinformation and propag... and you have a recipe for mass brainwashing.
The way that firms like Bannon's beloved Cambridge Analytica work to target individuals and small groups of people with disinformation and deception is the most individualized, high-test propaganda imaginable. That firm bills itself on its own website this way:
Cambridge Analytica uses data to change audience behavior.
And from that last article:
Massingham, who confirmed SCL’s account, told the Observer his company’s focus was about engaging with a campaign’s supporters and tailoring the message to them. “It’s about communicating with them in a timely and meaningful manner, not giving them too much content, and what you do give them is within the lines of what they want to hear.”
A debate is raging. Can behavioural profiling influence elections or is it a hyped technology, albeit with major consequences for privacy? Either way, the industry has come a long way since the 1980s when it first fascinated Oakes. “Behavioural modelling involving big-data analytics has arguably passed an inflection point,” said Dr Simon Moores, an expert on cybersecurity. “Thanks to the growth of predictive analytics, algorithms and big data-mining businesses you can now look forward to a future that’s made up of equal parts Orwell, Kafka, and Huxley.”
And even local news is under assault by the conservative agenda through Sinclair media buyups.
So no, I don't think we're stupid as a nation. Too trusting, definitely. Less educated than we should be, definitely.
If one single thing comes out of this whole mess in terms of educational reform, I hope that once Betsy DeVos is kicked out on her billionaire ass, there is a massive push to educate kids about media literacy, civics, and government. They need to understand that they are being targeted by people with agendas, and they need to be taught to be able to think clearly and critically about the media they consume.
In the spirit of transparency, no doubt
5 is less than 25, 36 is ALMOST 40.
Fun fact, they're legally obligated to report factually unlike Murdoch own networks.
Jr. screwed up when he decided to make something up for what they talked about
I'm extremely skeptical that Junior just made this up since it's very unlikely he knows anything about Russian politics or US sanctions against Russia. I'm betting that the Russians gave him this as a cover story knowing full well that he'd look like a moron if he used it. Trump and all of his people are being played by the Russians and they're just too stupid to know it.
The meeting news all broke last weekend
Yup, or at least on the phone.
I mean, this is kind of SOP for narcissists, isn't it? A narcissist always thinks they're going to destroy a fair contest, so if they're in a contest and they're not destroying it, that means the contest is unfair.