I don't think it can be denied that Russia is doing it's best to foment disorder in the Western system right now. Given this, I'm all the more convinced the Obama White House ran a pretty tight ship and was relatively on the up and up because I'm sure any Obama dirty games would be target #1 for the Russia / Wikileaks mechanism. If Obama had any dirt it would have been spilled already.
On Morning Joe today, Joe Scarborough said Judge Andrew Napolitano probably read about Obama asking GCHQ to wiretap Trump from a fake Russian news report. Judge Andrew Napolitano then brings this up on Fox News. Then Sean Spicer references Judge Andrew Napolitano from Fox News. Then Donald Trump references Sean Spicer.
TLDR: Fake Russian News -> Judge Andrew Napolitano -> Sean Spicer -> Donald Trump
I don't think I need to watch House of Cards this season. Fuck House of Cards, the Trump show is 100x more entertaining.
They aren't just trying their best, they have succeeded
Trump is the foremost champion of trying to discredit real news as "fake news" while at the same time he is prolifically influenced by actual fake news. It's a strange dichotomy.
Unarguably, yes, they have. Compared to the resources they must have expended (marginal) the result is tremendous. The one thing that they failed in was keeping it buried. I'm sure they hoped that any suggestion that there was some kind of organized effort would have been labeled as tin hat but it's actually a pretty accepted issue that's getting a reasonable amount of attention.
I believe something will come of this. The big question is will Trump be tied down to it and allowed to sink? My guess is that congress and the IC will choose to say "going forward, these are the precautions and here are the rules". Unfortunately I don't think they'll go after Trump unless they have evidence that sells itself.
Trump is a Russian tool.
Move over Reagan, Putin won the cold war...with the help of the GOP.
The so called President pushes Russian propaganda on the American people.
GOP: This is fine, just fine...
Truth. And, if the Trump investigation goes away; nobody indicted, everyone in the clear... There will be scads more "fake news", and leak after leak after leak, until the issues are settled.
1) The rest of the world and IC will not stop investigating. Global stability depends on Russia not pushing their agenda further west. (Not to mention investigative journalists, they're just getting started, and the information is coming to light.)
2) Russia has been at the propaganda/disinformation/disruption game for hundreds of years. The only way they will destabilize democracy and expand their power/wealth is to continue to sow disinformation and distrust, turn the people against their governments. Anyone complicit in any illegal activity Russia knows about will be used for blackmail or leaking information and upsetting the apple cart.
This is a war, fought in a non-traditional way. Until someone stops the aggressor, it will continue.
I tried to post this article yesterday about NATO and cyber warfare, but it was deleted as "not on topic".
Due to gaps in current international law, there is no set standard for how states can respond to attacks, and there's no agreed upon definition for what a "cyber attack" even is. Some interpretations say there must be a "use of force" for a cyber action to be a "cyber attack," while others say it must be an "armed conflict."' .
Why doesn't someone clarify what's legal? It's strategic, according to Dunlap, who told Axios the "U.S. and other countries may not want such a norm to develop because it would obviously restrict their own activities."
We're in seriously dangerous territory here.
And they're not even behind it in the sense that they did some high-tech, cloak and dagger coverup shit complete with a roomful of computer hackers and a sexy spy in a black dress seducing some low-level engineer at Langley to get his keycard or whatever.
They just started some fake infowars type websites and put random shit on it, and the President listens!
Its a perfect storm of a complete dumbass conspiracy theorist in the Whitehouse coupled with a country that is excellent at spreading propaganda (Russia).
I don't know that Trump was complicit (I think its likely), but Russia did find their perfect idiot.
One good outcome of this thing could be that Fox won't let Napolitano on air again...
And Trump, along with Brexit, is hindering further efforts in other countries like the Netherlands. So that's a plus at least.
Of course Russia is behind it. As well as the "gaffes" against Germany. Putin's goal is the destruction of NATO.
Not even once has that been "proven".
And 20% or more of our country is joking online with an equal amount of Russian trolls doing there part to destroy the country because "those ivy league librulz called me names."
"No member of the Trump campaign met with Russian officials"
Oh well except Carter Page, Roger Stone, Jeff Sessions, Mike Flynn,.Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner....
Players:Larry C. Johnson - retired from CIA 30 years ago; discredited by many news organizations due to previously spread fake story about Michelle Obama referring to people as "whitey" RT - State-owned Russian media Fox News - US Conservative cable news Judge Napolitano - Retired from judgeship 20 years ago; TV judge; talk radio host; Libertarian advocate Sean Spicer - Active White House Press Secretary Donald Trump - Active US President
Events:Johnson goes on RT to defend Russia from claims it hacked the DNC ("a joke") and says it was an inside job by the CIA. Calls US intelligence "stupid". Again on RT, in reference to wiretap claims on Trump Tower, Johnson claims:
“That there was some collusion overseas with Britain’s own GCHQ [Government Communications Headquarters]. That information that was gathered from GCHQ was actually passed to John Brennan, and it was disseminated within the U.S. government. This dissemination was illegal.”Napolitano goes on Fox News and echoes Johnson's claims. Sean Spicer repeats Napolitano's claims about GCHQ tapping Trump. Johnson admits to being Napolitano's source, via a phone call they both shared. Donald Trump defends Spicer bringing up Napolitano's statements, referring to Napolitano as "a very talented legal mind".
Fuck House of Cards, the Trump show is 100x more entertaining.
... except it's way more dangerous than a show.
On the bright side, the left will be rallying against Trump for a solid 4 years before the pendulum swings back.
Russia points to Western democracy to legitimize itself as being "just as" corrupt as other democratic nations. It would make sense that they try and undermine elections.
If it's so normal why did every single person I listed lie about it first? Curious how it only became totally normal innocent contact after they get caught lying and trying to hide it.
Oh by the way it's not normal for unelected campaign officials to meet with officials of a hostile foreign government actively waging a propaganda campaign based on espionage your campaign associates have admitted involvement in.
Whataboutism is a term describing a propaganda technique used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world during the Cold War. When criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Any time you want to discuss the topic at hand (Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election and possible ties to the Trump Campaign and Administration), just let us know.
TLDR: Fake Russian News -> Judge Andrew Napolitano -> Sean Spicer -> Donald Trump
Interestingly, this is exactly what ideological (sometimes violent) groups do online to control information. They source themselves or their sister sites almost exclusively. I don't recommend that you go to Stormfront and click around, but the Scientology website is a perfect example of this. All of their links are internal to their group, even if it has to do with news or external events. This lets them control what information their group members or potential recruits read.
TLDR: Fake Russian News -> Judge Andrew Napolitano -> Sean Spicer -> Donald Trump
A good example of the GOP puke funnel.
If you really think that Obama's foreign policy was bad and his domestic spying was bad why would you vote for someone who wants to go way, way, way, way further?
Contrary to popular belief you can't make things true by repeating them over and over. But if you click your heals together and wish real hard you might make it back to Kansas
Greetings from Germany, the U.K. sure isn't the second largest economy in the west.
maybe the president should back his claims on this first.
So let me get this straight.RT (Russian propaganda) invents a story designed to sow discord between the U.S. and one of it's closest allies, but it's so absurd that only a bonobo would give it any credibility Fox picks it up Spicer proposes it in White House Press briefing Discord ensues
I don't know. I mean, they have already coopted the two largest economies in the West asking with something like 90% of the global nuclear arsenal and military resources. I'm glad the Netherlands is standing firm, but globally it's too late if the Russians really have their claws that deep everywhere else.
This isn't the first time its happened. Trump has reiterated stuff that was only ever on Sputnik News.
I agree. Let's call a full scale investigation yesterday. We'll get to the bottom of whether any claims are legitimate and get to immediately move on
Judging from the expressions and comments of those Republicans and Democrats who met with Comey last week, I'd say it's highly likely that the claim Obama was spying on DT is also a claim that Russia is ultimately behind.
The disappointment on Nunes' face was clear. My bet is the FBI has hard proof of how that claim was propagated through various alt-right sources. At best, the president is weak minded and susceptible to Russian propaganda. At worst, he's in contact with individuals who are telling him this directly.... perhaps Flynn still.
It really hasn't.
All they have to do to win is to reduce the amount of American influence in the world. They don't need to CONTROL America, they just need to reduce her control everywhere else. Simply shaking confidence in NATO pays huge dividends for Russia.
Hahahah he was actually right though
Its not fake news, its PRAVDA!
You know how you can tell when trump hopes to mislead people into believing a falsehood? His mouth is moving. All his words are weasel words.
Its been proven? By who, you? References please you dimwit.
I want to believe that this is what the Never trumpers want, a slow drip that builds the case for impeachment. They know the Dems will support it. I believe it will depend on 2018 midterms.
And probably the KGB or not
This time, everybody has nukes.
It's disinformation laundering. They know it's bad information, but if you run it through a few media sources first, it works just as well as real information (or even better).
The only way to really combat this is through education. Sweden is taking the massive step to start educating their children in early years to computer code, and "spot fake news"; analyze the information they receive, it's source and content. With a healthy, well-educated population, the diseased information cannot get footing.
Unfortunately, this administration seems to be taking the steps necessary to allow disinformation and distrust to become fully entrenched.
Oh, I agree it's still a net win for Russian efforts, but given all the backlash against Trump, both nationally and abroad, I'm hopeful that that win will be short-lived.
When in reality American politicians meet with foreign ambassadors all the time, including Democrats.
Not in secret, multiple times, right before major policy changes, and then lie about whether the meetings even took place.
You say "Russian officials" like they are the men pulling the strings behind this conspiracy theory. When in reality American politicians meet with foreign ambassadors all the time, including Democrats. Stop trying to suggest that every meeting with a foreign ambassador is this secret collusion to "take down" America.
Did the Russian Ambassador have a meeting with Democrat politicians at the Democrat National Convention? Did he meet with anyone from the Clinton Campaign after 2013? Did anyone from the Clinton Campaign have any suspicious ties to Russian oligarchs? And last, Did Putin, as well as Assange not have a personal reason to want to take Clinton down?
This ain't nearly done. Not by a mile.
The FOX Human Centipede.
Here is the Rand corporation white paper on the Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" method of propaganda that describes their strategy.
It's the republicans in a microcosm.
"HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG" --> is having sex with men in bathrooms.
"MARRIAGE IS SACRED" --> has mistresses
"RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IS A RIGHT" --> denies other religions
"WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION NO MATTER WHAT" -->actively groups church and state, denies right to vote
"PEOPLE CAN AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE IF THEY DON'T BUY NEW PHONES" --> has health insurance paid for by taxes
It's absurd and disgusting.
When I first heard about this story, I did a search of GCHQ on news.google.com. All the news stories it pulled up were conservative fake news sites. They just live in their own little bubble.
Maybe they don't want it buried, maybe they want to show how powerful they are and how stupid the west is and how they can destroy it with the snap of their fingers. I feel like the Russians are greatly underestimated.
all evidence clearly points to that as the only conclusion! /s
i just puked a little in my mouth...
Hey, I'll have you know I look darn good in that black dress
Intelligence Community has confirmed Russia is running an active misinformation campaign on the US with RT.
The argument is Johnson having a platform on RT is no coincidence, and further theorizing can be extending to him talking to Napolitano, a known Fox News pundit.
Russia has always been pulling this crap. The problem now is that the right is so gullible they drink that kool-aid flavored vodka and ask for more. skepticism is dead.
It is not so much about the amount of influence that Russia has. It is about the loss of influence from the US and the UK. I think a lot of people have forgotten their history and have forgotten just how much stability the world has gained from that influence.
I miss the days when Scientology was my go-to for outrage
Russia not so much power, Putin however has complete power and is probably easily the richest person on earth. (so that's something)..
If the goal is to sow discontent in America's democratic process, what better way than to leak clear evidence of high level corruption? Low effort, maybe, but high yield. It's exactly the kind of scandal that Russia needs to convince it's people that "America isn't any better, carry on Comrades"
I think they would prefer to remain there.
with no source or evidence to back it up
See here is your problem. Joe does have a source and his name is Larry C. Johnson, a discredited former CIA agent that has been behind many fake stories in the past. He was the one that went on RT to spread this GCHQ story and has admitted to being Napolitano's source.
You do understand that the abilities of the NSA were enabled through the Patriot Act, a piece of legislation that was fought by the left and was passed by President Bush. More importantly, please explain what Obama did that was so egregious to other countries where we violated their sovereignty and supplying arms to rebels used to down civilian airliners.
There was a portion of the dossier in which was claimed that the kremlin had begun to feel as if the situation was getting "out of hand". Of course we can only speculate on the veracity of the document itself based on other corroborated information, but it is something.
Breitbart is a mouthpiece for Russia just like WikiLeaks? That makes the most sense.
The UK is spying on Russia and everything else in between. They don't have to spy on Trump to potentially get data on Trump. Russia hacked their elections also, they froze RT bank accounts. You can be they are investigating Russia ties all throughout their country and if Trump shows up, that's his problem.
And if it is proven out I assume you will be on board to lock him up?
Well their God-king says so on Twitter, so that's good enough for them.
Yeah that was me haha.
"STATES RIGHTS" --> unless we don't like the laws the states pass
“So if the story comes from RT, it would indeed be part of the fairly standard Russian playbook with which all western democracies at the moment are having to cope.”