And really this doesn't even come close to conveying the extent of the damage that slavery and segregation caused.
Some people think since we're in the "green" zone everything is fine now, which blows my mind.
And that green zone actually needs to start in the 70's which is when our government finally gave us the Equal Opportunity Act for hiring practices.
Segregation did not just end cleanly in 1954.
It’s crazy how hollywood slavery movies make it seem like this shit happened a millennium ago.....
Questionable if the green zone even really exists considering the lasting impact of housing discrimination
Here's an interesting tidbit: until 1972, Hispanic students were legally considered white, so some school districts in places with large enough Hispanic populations would send all the Hispanic kids and black kids to one "desegregated" school and the white kids to another, essentially enforcing segregation in schools for more than 18 years after it was ruled unconstitutional.
Weird how this mentality of “if you don’t like it, don’t fucking move here” is OK in this instance but not if someone implies people who move to America should learn English or adopt American/western culture 🤔
the problem that i have with "dont come to this neighborhood and change it" is that, the people saying that, likely moved into the neighborhood and changed it from something else.
Crown Heights is Caribbean and people are afraid of losing that. Understandable, but it was Jewish and Italian before it was Caribbean. Flushing was dutch, then German, and only now it was Chinese. Harlem was dutch English before it was black.
Lower east side was English, then German, then Italians, then Jewish, then Puerto Rican.
Stop pretending only the most recent history is what is important. Shit changes.
Exactly. I think Mississippi had legal school segregation until like 5-10 years ago. Other places practice it in the form of gentrification, white flight, etc. New York has the most segregated schools in the country. Segregation was made explicitly illegal, but still allowed to implicitly thrive.
And Y'all Queda has the gall to compare Black Supremacy to White Supremacy. I've even seen someone say the Root was worse than Breitbart on Reddit and have >1k upvotes.
I don't think minorities should hate white people. I love my white brothers But the historical justification for disdain of whites by blacks is totally different than groups like the KKK and Alt Right who dislike blacks solely based on race. Shit, Ruby Bridges and the woman that accused Emmitt Till of whistling at her are still alive and I learned that shit in history class.
Gentrification is still a thing too, kicking us out of our houses to this day.
The most frustating thing to me about gentrification that how in the everloving fuck do you willingly move into a neighborhood and then complain about the very things that make the neighborhood what it is.
If you don't like the fact that the bodega has a cat that has crawled over 110% of the items in the store, fucking move.
If you don't like the fact that block parties are a thing and more times than not, there's gonna be a hydrant opened or 4 older dudes blasting Fernando Villalona and playing dominoes until 3am, fucking move.
When you realize America wasn't a country til 1776
Boston still had segregated schools until like 76 i think.... let that sink in for a sec...
edit... did a bit of research and didnt know, but it stems from a 1965 Racial Imbalance act that had an impact on bussing that apparently didnt get resolved until like 1988.. segregation officially existed, on record, in a major NE metro until almost the 1990s... let that sink in.
I grew up in the super redneck part of Florida (which does not narrow it down) in the 1980s and there were literally two small neighborhoods where black people lived, and they were known by a pretty fucked-up, predictable name
Mississippi officially ratified the 13th amendment in 2013 lol
I've seen the tesla picture on reddit before, but this really drives home what we've accomplished in the past century. Truly astounding
Well technologically speaking, 200 years ago is more similar to 1000 years ago than it is to today.
When will it have been long enough to stop being salty about it?
Because a lot of white groups got enslaved too, and most of them don't really care anymore.
It's like you guys forget that white people also killed a lot of other white people. Or how blacks owned and sold slaves. OR any of the thousand shitty things every race of humans has done to every other race of humans.
Not exactly.. Michelle Alexander has a great book about this called The New Jim Crow and the first paragraph or two tell a different tale about the start of the US. My family has been here since 1608 and several came as indentured servants, so they worked for 2 - 3 years to pay passage, then were given land. This also applied to Africans or anyone else with a brown skin tone. Things didn't start to change until the indentured servants, or for lack of a better term, temporary slaves, started to revolt. So those in charge decided to put the lowest white people in charge of newly arriving black slaves, to keep the white slaves in charge of black slaves made them feel empowered. We still see this today in the Republican party in places like Alabama where they keep white people financially enslaved but tell them "at least you're better than black people!"
It's a very sad history because there was a path to freedom for all initially but it was hijacked by the rich and powerful. The end result is everyone lost, but some lost a hell of a lost more. Anyway Michelle's book is awesome if you're interested in the history from 1600 to now.
All you all do is complain that everybody is racist
"Why don't you people get over it already. Shit happened years ago, generations ago. Y'all livin' in the past..."
Yeah the recent fucking past!
Chances are you wrote that on a hand held screen that can answer almost any question you have.
This sub is actually retarded
The green section: mass incarceration
British colonies, not American.
lmao you tried to give Boston the benefit of the doubt and it was even worse
The first person killed during the revolution was a black man. The first person to shed blood for this country was black, yet in that same city i couldnt get an equal shot at getting into a public school in 1987. And im supposed to stand for the flag, smh..
oh fuck I'll go put the tea on this could take a while
Is that why they have the kids self-report their race/ethnicity? (Which I always thought was fucked and I never answered because fuck you government)
How about people who are going to be phased out of jobs because they aren’t bilingual?
Gentrification “destroys lives”? What are the other options other than moving to more affordable neighborhoods? Nobody moves to Bushwick NY because they want to. It’s the only place they can afford to live.
Yep, Mexicans had to have their own version of Brown vs Board, I forget what the actual court case was but that whole "Mexicans are white" thing came from racist Texans trying to get around the racial segregation thing.
When equality is actually achieved in practice rather than just in principle?
"Stop bringing up all those things that happened, it's so divisive! It's much better for me for you to just ignore all the ways you've been perpetually fucked by this country so please do not talk about that. By the way, I voted for Trump because I think it's important to loudly express how much I think I'm getting perpetually fucked by the country"
Are you equally as mad at the African kings that sold other Africans to white people?
There is a really interesting podcast, I think it was This American Life or Radiolab, I really can’t remember, that discusses modern day school segregation. In many areas school are just as segregated as they were pre-Brown v. Board, it’s just for the reasons you cited. And then in some places schools have tried integration programs that have been really successful, but the white parents HATED the programs and they’re back in decline. This is like, within the past 15 years.
I definitely recommend if someone knows what podcast I’m talking about!!
We can overlay a lot of stuff in that time period.
For instance, we went from no planes, to people on the moon in less time than the segregation period.
White guy here. Is it more IMPORTANT to consider how black Americans have BEEN treated or to consider what can be done NOW to change current situations that affect black Americans? The major dividing line in America is money, not race. Poor white trash hates blacks because they are ignorant. Poor black trash hate whites because they are bitter. Rich white Americans just don’t give a fuck about either group. As an American in 2018 I would be far more concerned about what the black community is doing to itself internally. Too many young black Americans being murdered in the street. Too many young black Americans turning to criminal enterprise to get by. And for those of you about to say there are no jobs for black Americans, I make $15 an hour as a single white dude with no kids and get by ok. Where I work it is at least 70% black. Same with where my mother works and where her husband works. I have to believe that if I were black, I would be way more concerned about my race having children they can’t afford and my people killing each other at epic rates. I would be far less concerned about what my great grandparents endured to get us here, and be more interested in what should be done now
That graph is all kinds of out of scale.
Not to mention the wars on crime and drugs. Those were just an extension of Jim Crowe and have fucked us for another few generations as well.
Do you ever get the feeling that racism is something that we'll just never stop?
It won't. Putting people into boxes and making stereotypes about them is something are brains naturally want to do -- it's a result of fundamental and beneficial cognitive heuristics. Almost all of the time, putting specific things into general categories and making blanket judgments about them helps us navigate the world (e.g., you can walk into a room, encounter a glass you've never seen before, but already know you can put water into it and it'll break if you drop it). But when these same subconscious shortcuts apply to people, bad things happen.
So it's not something that'll ever be "solved," it's a natural human tendency which will need vigilance and deliberate effort to fight against for the rest of human existence.
Isn't any form of racial supremacy a negative thing for everyone not part of the supreme race?
‘American’ slavery started in 1775/6. British slavery was the period before. And it can be argued that ‘segregation’ can never be fully eradicated on a social level, only a legal so thats ongoing to a certain degree.
I love how everyone focuses on American slavery when the African slave trade was done primarily by the British, French, Spanish and Germans. And before that Portugal and Denmark. And waaay before that the two Islamic empires the Abbasids and Ummayids. And all in between those times were from various African countries such as they kingdom of Mali, various Egyptian empires, the Songhai, and about two dozen others. Not bitching or anything just laying out several 1000’s of years worth of timeline.
Yeah perpetuate the anger and hatred. That's probably the right thing to do.
So then, what do you want? What could I personally do?
It's still somewhat contentious whether slavery ended in 1865...I don't recall where, but I read an article years ago arguing that southern states used the lax laws regarding prison chain gangs to effect slavery by proxy for years afterwards.
If you want to go before 1776, you should continue back until humans first traveled to the Americas, since several Native American tribes kept slaves, either opportunitistically, or as a matter of course (Aztec tributes for example).
Depends on how you define black supremacy. Most groups are just anti-colonialist rather than anti-white. They just don't want western influence on black communities, and some are willing to be violent to ensure it.
There are actual black supremacists who think black people are superior to all other races and that whites are evolved rodents etc. However, these groups are usually tiny, and hang out in psychic bookstores, believing in insane theories that they're Egyptian Gods and descendants of Mansa Musa. However, they're so inconsequential, they're basically crazy cults that have no actual platform to negatively affect the lives of non-blacks.
The problem with white supremacy isn't just the idea, it's the power behind it. The point I was making is most "black racism" wasn't based on actual race, but history, in relation to white racism. There is no power behind black supremacy, at least in the US.
^ somehow not racist
What dumb shit did I say? I'm trying to learn your side of the issue so I can be more empathetic.
PS: When people bring up my username, I know that they aren't concerned with having a real discussion. It's sort of like my canary in a coal mine for bad faith arguments. Do you want to have a conversation with me? Because if not, that's okay, you don't have to do it.
Agreed. The reason why Native Americans are celebrated in the US are because they're beaten down to submission. There's no more fight left in these communities. Reservations aren't too far off from trailer parks in the US. Still, whenever they have an issue (like the Redskins), their opinions are ignored and disowned.
I think that's why the new age black Americans are so hated by racists: they're educating themselves about their history, reclaiming their identity and establishing self-determination. Best of all, they're doing it the "white way": going to school, getting into politics and using the First Amendment to ensure the US's racist history is not forgotten.
Nobody said it didn’t. Prior to 1776 it wasn’t Americans, it was the English/French colonies.
You can’t rightly blame “America” for things that happened almost 200 years before it existed.
Just sayin, you can’t title it “Real” and then present a false narrative.
Big difference between 89 years and 246 years. I mean, if we’re gonna just start counting arbitrarily, what about the hundreds of years before that when the Arabs were enslaving Africans? I mean, they’re the same people who sold the slaves to the colonies so why not include those few hundred years too?
Nobody is trying to take away from the atrocity of Slavery in US history, just be real about it. Half truths from either side do nobody any good, the truth deserves to be told plainly without distortion.
It's called 13th. If you're reading this and you haven't watched it, you should.
Nah, the internal combustion engine changed too much for the comparison to work
I apologize. Your original comment came off as dismissive, in the tone of shit I've heard from a number of people before. I'm a Caucasian male. I don't have a "side" of the issue because I was brought up in an urban city in the northeast. I'm not personally affected by it, but I've grown up with who are. I find it aggravating when little Johnny from Gated Community, Vermont has an opinion on when people who have been oppressed should stop being upset about it. To answer your question, there's no amount of time that will get people to stop being upset about inequality. When the last oppressed person has died, that's when people will stop "being salty" about it. As in, until we live in a world where people aren't treated differently because of the color of their skin, people will be bothered by it. It's not simply something people "get over," regardless of whether or not other people in history have been oppressed, or regardless of who was at fault for the initial enslavement.
Logic isn't welcome here my friend!
The term slave has its origins in the word slav. The slavs, who inhabited a large part of Eastern Europe, were taken as slaves by the Muslims of Spain during the ninth century AD.
Hmmm. I dunno, I sort of think I'm right too.
In Canada, Natives encounter similar problems: the dominant white culture is so ignorant that very few people that are aware and accepting of basic facts. At the same time, the ignorant have no shortage of opinions and prescriptions. This contributes to a pretty widespread anger, of which there is also great ignorance.
The crux of the issue is that ignorance is a barricade that must be dismantled from the inside, and members of the privileged culture have little incentive to educate themselves. And decades of dealing with face-palming ignorance about personal and relevant truths will leave a mark on anyone.
Do you ever get the feeling that racism is something that we'll just never stop? We might make it smaller or hide it more by making racists feel bad ,but that there is something fundamental about people that will make it an everlasting part of society?
Not saying we should not discuss it, I'm just saying that we could maybe look into the deeper reasons as to why people become racists and try to combat the disease rather than the symptom.
yall still on that
Obviously it’s a generalization. I am more than happy to hear why you think I “almost get the point” I’m not being cute, I really want to know what you think. I’m not in your shoes, But I am in the same shoe store. I didn’t mean this to seem aggressive. I really like to hear all sides.
The fact that there are some people in America that instead of acknowledging that it happened would rather you forget and not have a problem with they're ignorant philosophy.
Yeah. It's pretty fricken awesome
Seeking advice: I volunteer at a Title I middle school in Florida. On days I’m there, I’m the only white dude on campus. My expectation is that - at minimum - everyone graduates high school. But I’m having trouble keeping some of these kids motivated and focused, especially when met with claims of “institutional racism” etc. My question is, how can I/we parse through an obviously very real historical (and potentially current) problem, but NOT allow them to use that an excuse to lose motivation or resign themselves to a stacked deck.
It’s This American Life, “The problem we all live with”. Two parts.
I agree, it’s a great podcast! Extremely eye opening! Especially since I live in St. Louis, in the Normandy area.
Wow. SLAV is short for SLAVIC, which is an Indo-European ethno-linguistic group.
Well, there's still a ride based on Song of the South
Never forgive people for what their ancestors did to your ancestors
Cisneros v. Corpus Christi Independent School District was the case that said they weren't white.
Yeah man, maybe I slapped your mom across the face, but that was yesterday! Get over it already...
aka: "War on Drugs" :/
Truth is, 400 years ago is far more similar to 1000 years ago than it is to present day.
Im sorry black people cant entertain you.
Electing a black president shook the country so hard that they hired a racist in his place.
There never was a green zone.
I get so sick of being judged just for being a white middle class American man. What the fuck did I do?
Are you talking about real life or on the internet?
Because I’m white and I’ve never ran into the slightest inconvenience on account of being white.
Fuck off playing the victim here, nobody said anything about white people