Paul Ryan says mental health reform is "critical ingredient" in stopping mass shootings

Paul Ryan says mental health reform is "critical ingredient" in stopping mass shootings

Just thinking, but maybe perhaps, one way to improve mental health is to ensure it is covered under healthcare insurance plans...

He says it's a "critical ingredient," not that he is willing to fund it.

Where the fuck are these "mental health reform bills" he's churning out? Who is supposedly blocking/voting against them?

As he votes to take healthcare away from 1/6 Americans

Here's funding for mental health: it includes a tax cut for corporations, addition tax increases on 51-90% income percentiles, decrease spending on women's issues, and some pork for back home.

What do you mean you voted against mental health?! Have you no decency!

He's right, and he lays out his argument in this editorial:

This Shooting Isn’t About Gun Control We Refuse To Pass, It’s About Access To Mental Health Care ...

Then stop voting against treatment and healthcare you evil fuck.

It's Paul Ryan. He thinks it's great as long as the market determines that it's great. "If it's important enough then insurance companies and employers will be forced to cover it" is probably what he'd say, as if anything in life is actually that simple. Why have government interfere in every aspect of your life, including the thing that helps keep you alive?

-proceeds to do nothing about it-

"If it's important enough then insurance companies and employers will be forced to cover it"

Biggest problem being that many of the mentally ill struggle to maintain an employer.

NYTimes just did a great story on homeless winding up in jail over and over and over again rather than getting treatment.

It's expensive to keep people in jail - much more expensive than treatment over the lifetime of a person. But rather than doing both the humane and conservative thing, Ryan and his ilk would rather just have taxpayers foot the enormous bill forever.

I think you got a little confused. Healthcare is 1/6 of our economy. The proposals would like remove 20 million from having insurance. The US has 323 million people so that would be ~6% of Americans not 16.6%. Still not good.

More likely, they're talking about having people's medical records subject to review by the FBI.

It's probably cheaper and it seems to fit their willy a little better.

Has the onion finally given up on satire?

Now they are just writing about reality, it seems.

The other is to ensure they are not covered for anything and hope they eventually die out.

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.

One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.

The other, of course, involves orcs."

- John Rogers

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.

One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.

The other, of course, involves orcs."

- John Rogers

The GOP has done everything in their power to curtail and stifle tax-payer funded mental health services, going back to Reagan.

But that's not really fair I suppose. They've done everything imaginable to remove funding of nearly all critical public health services, not just mental health treatment facilities.

Asked by CBS News' Nancy Cordes if it was a mistake to make it easier for mentally ill people to get a gun, Ryan paused and moved onto another reporter's question.

Mental health is drastically overlooked in our country so at least that might get some needed attention.

negative income tax

It's the demise of true fiscal conservatism and a belief in facts. If people were truly dedicated to economics and proper policy many of the things that the less extreme lefties push for would be bipartisan issues. There'd still be quibbles about implementation, but from a pure economic standpoint:

It makes sense to treat mental illness and drug abuse through preventative healthcare and social measures rather than after the fact. It makes sense to provide a solid basic level of healthcare to all because it reduces the costs of absenteeism, and by focusing on disease prevention rather than treatment the country saves money and the people lead healthier and happier lives. It makes sense to provide an education (state university, not expensive for profit universities) in order to produce a skilled working class which can compete in an increasingly skill intensive world. It makes sense to not fight progress and to push for retraining programs which can deal with loss of jobs caused by free trade and a changing economy. I'll even throw a universal basic income on the pile, be that as Friedman proposed a or in some other form (automate everything related to taxation, simplify the taxcode, remove loopholes, stop wasting national resources on tax lawyers and the IRS).

The vast majority of people with mental illness are only a danger to themselves. They are far more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators. That's just fact. The kind of people with psychosis who are mentally able to formulate a plan and actually carry it out are not the kind of people who either seek out mental health care or would be detected by the average mental health worker. Sociopathic people who carry out crimes like this are too smart to get caught up in mental health screening.

-proceeds to actively work against it-

Or maybe reality has given up and became satire. 🤔

50 million didn't have coverage before ACA. Paul Ryan supported repeal, no replacement.

You know, people might actually take this seriously. Poe's Law is extremely applicable to some Republican political positions.

Ah but see, he's not looking to reform mental health care, just mental health itself. Under his comprehensive 90-point plan:

Narcissism = confidence Pathological greed = compassion Prayers = treatment

And so on! The GOP's new mental health reform will reduce America's mentally ill by 80% (by reclassifying them as healthy)!

Easily fixed with birth contro--- oh.. Never mind.

It's expensive to keep people in jail - much more expensive than treatment over the lifetime of a person. But rather than doing both the humane and conservative thing, Ryan and his ilk would rather just have taxpayers foot the enormous bill forever.

In general I'm in favor of "smaller government" but at some point shouldn't we just do what is practical? In other words what ends up costing less to everyone as a whole? That's what I can't understand about the position that people should just be in jail which ends up costing taxpayers more. It makes no sense to me.

There's zero indication that the Vegas shooter had untreated mental illness. Certainly not any of the more routine (and crippling) ones like schizophrenia that tend to show up in youth. He certainly seemed to be in command of his faculties enough to methodically plan an execute an elaborate mass murder plot over the space of at least months if not a year or more.

I don't think there's any amount of mental illness screening that would have prevented that. Not to mention, he probably did have multiple screenings as part of his pilot's license. Nor would banning guns (as if you even really could) have stopped someone who was that determined and methodical - he could have just rented a truck and re-enacted the Nice attack, which had a higher kill count than Vegas.

None of this is an argument against providing expanded mental health services. It's simply an acknowledgment that there will always be people willing and able to kill for ideological, personal, or unknown reasons.

It’s an issue with people who want to become pilots. If you have ever seen a psychologist, you have to put it in your medical record for piloting. It then goes for review for a few months, you have to dump out several hundred to several thousands of dollars for follow up evaluations to deem whether you can be a pilot.

Or you can refuse all mental health and instantly pass the medical even if you are a psychopath.

Basically the more they try to force mental review of people as a restriction for a job or for things, the less mental help people will go get.

And to those who say “well a pilot can kill a plane full of people”, I would rather have a pilot who has a regular psychologist to help out with whatever in his life vs a pilot who refuses to get help because the faa and society will be up his ass. Police also have this issue. The news just loves to jump down it. The moment a person is noted to see any type of mental health profession, they are deemed as crazy, having a mental disorder, or bashed. This is less of a fault of regulation and more of a problem if American society.

Same with people and guns.

No matter what, either is capable of killing a lot of people in a very short amount of time.

I am all for expanding Medicaid, particularly for the mentally ill but I have reservations about tying it to safety or crime, as it perpetuates stigma that the mentally ill are inherently dangerous.. research does not back up that claim. We don’t need to help people because we fear they may become dangerous, despite that being a potential symptom of a disease. We need to help these people because they’re sick and will get worse without care. Quite frankly, anyone with a serious medical condition that’s not being treated and symptoms are exacerbated can be a safety concern - a diabetic going into insulin shock while driving for instance. Food for thought.

Right so we need to cut taxes on the rich and fit Obamacare to force these people to get jobs with insurance.

It’s so clear.

You are just talking about big events. People with mental health problems are more dangerous to themselves and are likely to be victims of crime. Just because you can point to a few instances does not change stats, most gun crimes are made due to other reasons, not mental health.

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html

Myth: People with mental health problems are violent and unpredictable.

Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population. You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities.

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Public-Policy/Violence-and-Gun-Reporting-Laws

Most people with mental illness are not violent. In fact, people with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence.

http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php

Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent.

Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between mental illness and violence.

Fact 3: Inaccurate beliefs about mental illness and violence lead to widespread stigma and discrimination:

Fact 4: The link between mental illness and violence is promoted by the entertainment and news media.

It took me all of 5 minutes to find this shit, do you research.

"Now, if only all those mentally ill people would pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get meaningful jobs so that they can actually afford mental health services, then we could have this all solved."

-Republicans, probably.

Blame the mentally well people. They keep giving birth to (later) mentaly ill people.

1/6 Americans

There hasn't been a proposal yet that comes anywhere even remotely close to this number. Seriously, where do you get this nonsense from?

He should've said no because violating civil liberties is not the answer.

This is the legislation in question: https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

This is one of those questions democrats love to use as a 'gotcha' moment with republicans even though it's one of the items that republicans and the ACLU agree on.

Believed it until I saw the domain which is the equivalent of the winky face. Although it is a more reasonable opinion than the one Paul Ryan actually expresses.

From the main article:

Following a closed-door meeting with the House GOP Conference, the Wisconsin Republican, said, "One of the things we've learned from these shootings is often underneath this is a diagnosis of mental illness."

Republicans, Ryan noted, spent years working on mental health reform, passing a bill proposed by Rep. Tim Murphy, R-Pennsylvania, last year that was signed into law by President Obama.

"That's why the House of Representatives passed landmark mental health reform just a year ago. That law is now being implemented," Ryan said. "It's important that as we see the dust settle and we see what was behind some of these tragedies, that mental health reform is a critical ingredient to making sure that we can try and prevent some of these things from happening in the past."

Then...

Asked by CBS News' Nancy Cordes if it was a mistake to make it easier for mentally ill people to get a gun, Ryan paused and moved onto another reporter's question, which also focused on the same issue.

Same with the pyongyang/Washington D.C. conversation about shooting nuclear missiles.

Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, San Ysidro, UT Tower shootings were all mental health motivated shootings.

He's right. Have read both, Atlas Shrugged is garbage.

If this isn't the goal, it's a happy byproduct for them.

End result is fewer people seeking help though.

I'm someone who read Ayn Rand as a teenager/young 20-something.

Atlas Shrugged is unreadable, but The Fountainhead is a very good book, IMO.

So, she literally fled from Communist Russia. With its ideals and philosophy countering most ideas of personal agency. She fled to the West and fell in love with the idea of an extreme opposite - 'The Virtue of Selfishness', which is the name of a philosophy book she wrote and serves as the basis for her novels.

I judge her by who she is, the life she lived, and how she shaped her philosophy. It's basically a polar opposite to Soviet Communism. All about being independent, and not part of a mindless collective.

She was also a staunch atheist and treated religion as another soul-quenching collectivist movement.

What's ironic today is that she's been co-opted by conservatives, who are all almost always Christian. They're somehow both Objectivist (the name of her philosophy which rejects gods and religion) and Christian at the same time. The champions of Ayn Rand today are the most conservative Bible-thumpers. I could make an argument that Ayn Rand wasn't even conservative at all by today's standards. She's certainly anti-big-government, but to me, that doesn't mean 'conservative' but 'anti-authoritarian'. I didn't find anything in her books that I read that meant she's against positive social programs. She was all about opposing systems of control that would reduce the individual.

I don't think she was a bad person. She certainly didn't have bad intentions. I don't agree with her on many things she said - I've settled on Stoicism as a personal philosophy, which is a virtue ethic system, and hers is rather deontological. But I am glad I read Ayn Rand, because I do think she has useful things to say about establishing a sense of self that is immune to ANY system around you. If she had restricted her writings to merely her thoughts on identity and independence, she'd probably be revered by most today. She makes a great case for not letting the masses influence you, and standing against a false consensus.

But she took it too far, probably in direct opposition to her upbringing in an ultra-authoritarian Soviet state. Therefore her writings were exaggerated, philosophically, and I don't blame her, as it's basically an 'opposition philosophy' to a bad situation - but it's now invoked by the right-wing. Which is fucking weird considering it's now the 'religious right', and she wholeheartedly rejected ANY notion of gods or supernaturalism.

I would recommend The Fountainhead to anybody. It doesn't go into her deep philosophy, it's very readable, and it's about a man who maintains an identity in a world that wants to diminish it. I can't wholeheartedly recommend Atlas Shrugged or her various philosophical writings otherwise except for the purposes of study.

Since mental health is a safety issue I think that mental health should automatically approve you for Medicaid regardless of your wealth. This will make it easier to move to single payer and at the same time reduce crimes caused by mentally ill people and they have a chance to live a more normal life.

I believe the CBO put the 3 shots to replace Obamacare at around 20-30 million less insured. The third round might have been higher but maybe the CBO didn't mark that one up since it died so quickly. I don't remember any R plan that would remove 50M people. But if you want to correct I'm cool with that.

The problem with some of the gun laws talked about around mental health is that it takes away an individual's right to due process. The decision on mental illness gun ownership should be on a case by case basis if you are dangerous. Just because you have a mental illness does not mean that you are a danger to anybody.

No, we'll have to call them by their full name and list their kill score on international tv.

Any Rand was also an awful person irl.

It's about what makes the top 1% the most money, not the general population

I mean, if you're talking about deinstitutionalization, Geraldo, then sure. Anything after that, though? The left has reliably pushed for increased services, which gets expensive, and the right has reliably pushed for cuts to services, which actually gets even more expensive (more inpatient and ER care, which is orders of magnitude more expensive than preventive and outpatient care). There are obviously exceptions (see Utah's fantastic Housing First programs), but that's absolutely been the trend.

EDIT: Interestingly, the Christian political base tended to align very strongly with the left until Roe V. Wade snapped them to the right. It makes sense if you think about it; religion usually emphasizes peace, equality before god(s), and charity, and a strong safety net and social services play into that version of piety in a beautiful way. As I understand it, single-issue voters got pushed to the Republican party because Republicans used to be unequivocal advocates for States' rights--and in this case, that meant abortion could stay illegal in some places. We aren't as different as we think.

Source: Master's level mental health worker.

All I know is they all for some reason have a big (R) next to their names.

I love the ACLU, but pointing to them as some sort of liberal group automatically opposed to gun measures is wrong. They defend all constitutional rights vigorously. They sue on behalf of neo-nazis all the time, which even as a liberal I love.

And that's how you know "mental health" is nothing more than an attempt to change the subject. It's an empty gesture.

You're running for Congress next year as an r aren't you

Probably uninformed people or worse, misinformed people.

Reddit, can we elect this guy? Strong fundamentals on proper fiscal policy, moderate, sensible, handsome? I'm sold.

I don’t hate gay or brown people. Why would you say such a thing.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

tax cuts for the rich let it trickle down to the poor, poor become rich no more mental health issues because money. I feel like I would make a good republican. O and everyone can afford health insurance now because we all rich from all that trickling.

I see you speak Irish

Sooooo abortions?

You don’t need to be off he record anymore.

Loud and proud brother!

Not even close. The mentally ill have became a scape goat for problems they don't cause. Its absolutely disgusting that people are used as a distraction from what are real life problems.

Bro I got into James Joyce because of my teacher. Now I can't go a day without thinking bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk

To help speed this along, Ryan wants to ensure they have easier access to guns.

Trump repeals Obamacare provision that requires coverage of mental health.

Also, if his username is anything to go by, he knows quite a bit about war. Just in case.

As he votes to take healthcare away from 1/6 Americans

Uhh what

And she was something of a hypocrite.

And him and his party is 100% completely to blame for that.

Not to mention, he probably did have multiple screenings as part of his pilot's license.

The elephant in the room everyone is ignoring, is that a small plane crashing into a crowd (especially if loaded with extra fuel) would have killed far more people.

You are correct. The mentally ill contribute only 3-5% of violent crime, and as you said, are much more likely to be victims of violent crime. Blaming it on mental health is a red herring to deflect from having to talk about gun laws.

What about the retired police officer that shot the man who threw popcorn in his face in a movie theater a few years ago?

Why is it that mental health in the US is only ever discussed after mass shootings? And even then it's just a way of avoiding conversations about gun control, never actually anything about providing mental health services.

Does that mean when we have mass shootings, we can finally call them terrorists?

The next school shooter will be sponsored by Red Bull.

Ryan, get off reddit!

But then he wont have anything to point to when he does nothing about gun violence.

If you're alluding to state facilities and involuntary commitment then it very much was bi-partisan.

...too bad your caucus is doing everything in its power to strip people of the healthcare benefits they need for mental health issues.

Is that a joke? Reagan infamously advocated for legislation that closed mental health asylums, which just pushed mentally ill patients onto the streets to create a homelessness problem.

I feel like if a sociopaths actually talked to a therapist there will be less mass shootings in general. Do any of these mass shooters actually have a recorded mental illness?

Because it sounds kinda like it won't stop anyone from obtaining a firearm unless they have a recorded mental illness.

So you totally hate them but off the record though, right?

Remember now, once born they are parasites and a drain on the system

Ok, people talk a lot of smack about McConnell (turtle) and Cruz (Grampa Munster) but Paul Ryan's face is always so fucking smug I just wish Biden would have punched him in the last SOTU address.

Our society in general would be a lot better off if people were more free to see a therapist and there was less stigma around it. Not just for severe cases like sociopaths, but for all kinds of people that deal with depression, anxiety, various traumas, etc.

I saw one when shit hit the fan and i was going through a pretty shit time in my life. It helped tremendously.

Mental health as a whole is ignored, stigmatized, and underreported...

I'm glad, but it's surprising how rare this stuff is considering how many people live/try to live off minimum wage or in that area.

I didn't point to them as a liberal group, I pointed to them as a group that protects civil rights so the vote to repeal that executive action was in line with protecting our civil rights.

(this phenomenon is known as capitalism for those who don't know)

Those ‘big events’ are the ones gun control advocates start with.

Thanks for bringing this up. It's a pretty common misconception that the mentally ill are more likely to commit violent crimes. As you mention the research on the subject doesn't back up that point of view. In fact the research shows that mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of a violent crime than are members of the general public, and IIRC it's by a fairly wide margin.

While that's true, that doesn't mean that all 50 million of those people didn't get insurance because of the ACA. Partially because of the number of states that decided not to accept the Medicaid expansion and partially because of people who otherwise don't qualify or simply aren't complying with the law.

Here's a quick link I found which shows that pre-ACA, 18% of Americans didn't have insurance, while it's currently at 11%. Taking insurance away from about 7% of Americans is still plenty shameful. There's not really any need to exaggerate.

Several of them had seen a therapist before, but I don't think any of them were currently receiving treatment. And you're right, that's where the mental health requirements fall through the cracks. Even if you require all gun owners to undergo a mental health evaluation, plenty of people- especially sociopaths- have fooled therapists. Unless you're raving and making threats during the interview, it's unlikely mental health screenings will have much of an impact. Think of how many cops who shouldn't be cops make it through their mental health evaluation. My concern is that therapists will become overly cautious and outright deny anyone with a history of depression, anxiety, etc.

nonsense. that's how we solve black people.

People who own prisons are job creators, though. Haven't you heard?

It's even prevalent in a citizens life, too, unfortunately. I FINALLY got help for my depression/anxiety and apparently got a medical suspension on my lisence for my meds and had no idea. Fast-forward a year and I get in a wreck. My car gets impounded even with hardly any damage because of it. Wanna know what's easier? Smoking weed not going and getting prescribed meds or telling anyone abput it has proved much easier in the past. Sad that it's even a deterrent anywhere in a society.

Whats the recipe for ends meat? Is there a special seasoning, or cooking technique? Batter it, and then dredge it, or dredge it and then batter?

Prisons benefit and are often run by corporations, so tossing them in jail may have taxpayer value, but lobbyists run America (or at least bribe politicians) and they lobby for more prisons and longer sentencing. The US prison system is basically slave labor for corporations now - it used to be only the US government could use that labor, but now all sorts of companies use it, from call centers to sewing garments. Many companies say they don't use prison labor but they actually hire other companies that do to wipe their hands of it (Wal-Mart, I call you out).

Durrr but where's his birth certificate?

The first 4 points on your list are already nonpartisan issues in most of the developed world. UBI is being trialled in Finland and has previously been tested in Switzerland, Canada, Namibia and parts of the US.