This is how you get people like my father who switches internet providers every 18 months.
Yes, because your loyal customers should have to play tricks and games to get the same price as a brand new customer.
Cable companies are scum of the earth.
I learned the trick to this from my coworkers at last job. When the promotion ends, you call the 800 number and push the buttons for canceling your service. That'll get you the people who are empowered to give you the promo again. When they ask If there is anything they can do to keep your business, tell them you want to keep the rate you had before.
If you talk to the regular sales people, they say no. But the "oh shit, they're canceling" people will say yes. At least its worked for me so far.
your father likely isn't a heavy internet user + American because if he was, very few places actually have competition as far as what you can actually get.
If they gave everyone a small discount for being "loyal", that would just be the market rate. So you would still have a promo price to get people to switch and a market rate that is higher.
You haven't solved your problem
I consider myself lucky that I have 2 available broadband providers in my area. Att with 45/5 or now charter with 60/5. While neither are great companies, nor do they compete that much with each other. (it's more a one raises a price and the other follows suit), at least we can get new customer pricing all the time.
You think it's funny? AT$T's max speed where I live is 3mbps. Not joking. And they want minimum (no discounts because you threaten to leave) $45 US. Welcome to America where the govt wants to destroy regulations on ISP's because "it stifles competition" and prevents expansion (yeah, that's bullshit and everyone knows it. They wouldn't expand anything, there's no money to be made in rural areas so they aren't paying for something they get no returns.)
My other alternative is Comcast where for the first four months this year I had almost no service. Random outages for hours a day. I literally had to call daily and start logging conversations to use against them to cost them so much money in sending techs that it would end up being cheaper to fix the problem than to ignore it. And I pay $70 US for 25 mbps.
Internet has zero meaningful competition here. Meaningful is an important word, they only technically have competition because you might find two that serve an area but they will absolutely not compete. Get in a big city and it's often different but most people live in suburbs or rural, not in the city itself.
The town I live in is fortunate enough to have both Verizon and Comcast so like pretty much every year we just switch between the two of them in order to get the best deals.
Everyone here is talking big companies like cable giants, but I'd like to speak up for the small business owner. I appreciate my loyal customers and I give them the best service and value I can and still make a decent living, but I'd also like to grow my business, and I'm willing to take a cut in profit or even a loss for that. I can't afford to extend the new customer promos to everyone. That's not how it works. I do occasionally get a regular repeat customer who gives me a hard time about it, and it puts me in the awkward position of either giving them the deal and taking the loss, or potentially losing them as a customer.
I wouldn't use the word fortunate
They want more customers. They've already got you in the bag.
those are minimum speeds?
This has worked for me:
"Hi. I'd like to cancel. ""Why?"
"It's too expensive. I see you have a package for $<VERYLOWAMOUNTOFDOLLARS>. Is that available for me?""No. New customers only. "
"Ok. <YOURCOMPETITOR> has the same offer, and it even includes more stuff. I'll be switching over.""One moment, please. ... ... ... Guess what? The offer is now magically available to you, but just this one very special time. Here you go!"
Rinse and repeat.
The reality is, most businesses are looking for growth, and most employees want to be able to say things like "we came up with this thing and it got us one billion new customers! Promote me!", which will have a bigger impact than "well, hey, we spent all this money and only lost 10 customers this month. Promote me??" Silly example but you get the idea. Shiny new is naturally attractive.
You'd rather just have one of them?
You're definitely the exception to the norm. I live in one of the biggest cities in the country and I have literally two options, and both suck. I pay more than you do for 1/10 the speed.
75 dollars for 25 mbps a month? Is that a joke? I pay less than what would be 40 dollars for 250 mbps in Europe..
It's called retention.
American here. Lucky to have 3 ISPs in town, plus Google Fiber in a nearby city. Can get 1 Gb up/down for $70/mo.
They literally base discounts based on whether or not your neighborhood has competition. To a T.
"Oh hm let me check and see if we have any discounts in your area" = "let me see if we're a complete monopoly in your area." I pay that full full price.
Also, what qualifies as "loyal"? Should your price go up after your initial onboarding rate for a few years and then come back down once you're loyal?
You're really nailing the issue on the head. Its two sided and both the fault of the consumer and the business.
The business decides to take a loss to get new customers. Its expensive to grow. Acquisition of a customer costs more than retention. So you give the new customer a break to entice them.
Now as a consumer you don't see that loss the company took. You see that "loyalty" ( come on do you really think 6 months counts as loyalty???) is going to cost you more! The outrage! The company should value your business more than the brand new guy! Here's the thing though, you got the same deal. You knew what the actual price was and that you were on a promo.
Now that's not good enough for you Mr. Loyalty so what do you do with all that loyalty? Bully your way to getting a double helping of that sweet deal. You threaten to leave, either this company will give you what you want or you will leave.
This company will lose either way. They either give in and you get the deal, or they have to replace your business with someone else.
No businesses are not altruistic. I'm under no delusion that all prices would immediately drop if we all agreed to not be new deal hunters. I do know that this deal hunting behavior has driven pricing up. When you take a loss or just break even on the front end you got to make that up somewhere.
No. In America, the minimum speed is zero for any provider. Those are the speeds you can get UP TO and in the contracts for that service, it'll usually state the ISP doesn't guarantee that, either.
If you think about it, existing customers higher rates are effectively subsidising the discounts offered to new customers.
One thing to keep in mind when a rep says x and then turns around after you say y, the rep has to go through those steps, they NEED to hear you say y or Z before they're even allowed to consider giving you what you asked for. If they just flopped over and gave it to you right off they'd get coached and/or fired.
There are times when I wanted to get a polite client over to retention for a better rate, but they never said anything close to what I needed them to say to call over.
Also health care, also education.
Last month I had to call ATT because I would go from having a ping of 40 to having a ping jump from 1200-2500+ for minutes to hours at a time. I reset all my settings and turned off all devices but one. Made sure every other program was closed when I ran my tests. I told the tech something was wrong. He came to my house and said "is there a red light on your modem?" "No, because the data is still getting across, it's just taking 2 whole seconds to send literally a byte." And he says "well we can't promise speeds"
I don't expect to get 10 Gbps every second of the day, but I also shouldn't have the internet speed test page time out on me because the connection is bad.
Right, exactly. Usually new customer promos are not profitable for the company and rely on either a time commitment to earn back that profit or the forgetfulness of people to not cancel after a certain time.
That worked for me once. The second time the Comcast retention folks said they already helped me last time. Problem being at that time was I didn't have another good option to switch to and they knew it
This company will lose either way.
None of this applies here because the cable companies are still making massive profits even with the promo prices.
I once worked phones for a webhotel, and sometimes people would call in and demand a discount currently up for new customers. I had to calmly explain that it was for new customers, and if we gave it to everyone the company wouldn't exist for long. These were invariably entitled assholes who would shout and sneer to get a damn discount, and talk about fairness and so on. It's a business, dude - a customer is loyal if the company earns it. That doesn't mean the customer earns something by being loyal, for staying with a company they think provides a good service.
They're like any other company. You'll pay one value, why should they give you service for lower than what you'll pay? #capitalism
It's customer acquisition. That's how business works.
You go to the mall and the Chinese restaurant offers you a free piece of orange chicken. If you went to the mall every day and ate lunch in free samples and bought a drink, you'd technically be a loyal, retained customer.
The problem is that people think that marketing rates and market rates are the same thing. The marketing rate is to get you to try the product and once you like it, you keep it at the market rate. No different than a free sample.
I just keep switching my account between my wife's name and then canceling and I'll open it up in my name. Fuck them, I can play games too.
Edit: I should also mention that I told him I was going to do this, and within two days they had a senior customer retention person called me and begged me to not cancel, which I had already done. They went through so much trouble to try to keep me as a customer when they should've tried to not lose me.
Depends on the company. Many companies is many areas nowadays don't even care. They just go ahead and cancel you.
You are so correct! I understand that the promotion is to lure in new customers but how about they reward our loyalty?
Nope. $100 for 60mbps here, and it's a ton better than where I used to live.
America is great for everything except internet.
The problem is when they bill for just your internet connection. Threaten with Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix et. al. all you want, but if you don't have the connection to GET to those, and no one else in your area is competing but dial-up or satellite, and they know it, you're boned.
I mean, it's not a "new customer promo" if it's offered to existing customers. I worked in telecom customer service, including billing. And I loved my job, right up to the day they took away my ability to offer promos to customers. If I can't do anything, then there is no reason for me to be there. So I left.
It's called price discrimination. The idea is you charge each person the most they are willing to pay. Existing customers will pay more because it costs time and effort to switch away.
This is "normal" business everywhere. Not just American cable scumbags.
That would make it the price.
This actually doesn't make any sense. You're basically just asking companies to lower their prices.
The only comment here that's not backed by entitlement. Otherwise my mind is blown by how many people think they deserve something more because they chose 1 business over another.
Not a joke at all. Better yet it would be more expensive but instead of renting their modem for $8 a month, I bought one. I'm frankly shocked I'm still allowed to bring my own modem since we can't buy a cable TV box and I'm sure they'd love to force us to rent the modem as well.
1 gb... I feel like i'm back in the 90's and you are telling me you just got a 20 gig hd and i'm like "WOW!, HOW COULD YOU EVER FILL THAT UP?"
I think Comcast is intentionally throttling or disabling non-leased modems. I have a Tp-link 8/4 that works flawlessly on RCN's network (75 down consistently) and I move to a Comcast building and my modem doesn't get above 3 down. Plug in a leased modem, it gets the full speed. Wtf??
My mom doesn't even go through that. She just calls them and asks what promos they have this time. Somehow, it's worked for a long time. They finally increased our price this year because I guess they got sick of our shit.
Because you get people like me and my wife, who though we aren't millenials have told the cable company to go fuck themselves.
I'll pay for a VPN, extra fast internet, and still save $100 a month.
Thanks to reddit I can see any sports I want, and everyone knows how easy it is to download new TV shows. Add a borrowed Netflix password and you're golden.
This is what my girlfriend's dad does to get insane deals. Every two years he switches between dish network and direct tv. Plays the two against one another. You'd think they'd catch on but apparently in his situation they don't. Wouldn't work if you're a huge NFL fan though since only Direct TV has Sunday Ticket.
Have a solid long term business plan and product. Set your prices accordingly and be prepared for fluctuations. Tech companies, especially, have a hard time because of advancements in the industry, and supply + demand can be a nasty beast to tame. That, and don't have greedy, mindless people run the company. Sustainability is key. Customer support and competitive prices go a long way i think. Yeah, thats the ticket. That kinda sounds like i know what i am talking about... Used a couple longer words and broke it up into some sentencez.
Best working anti-immigrant policy ever.
I think the difference is that at this point, internet access is practically a utility. Add the monopoly power of ISPs in most areas, and it gets pretty absurd.
I don't give a f--- about new customer promotions at a hotel or flowershop or whatever. There's 1,000,001 hotels in most areas and I can always find the one that has the right balance of comfort and price for me. But there's a single ISP that services my neighborhood, and their pricing is messed up.
not dish network called and asked to talk t the retention people. i had them for around 10 years. said i didnt want to pay as much as i was or i was canceling they said i could get less channels and i said no. i dont want to lose anything but i dont want to pay as much as i am. they said there was nothing they could do so i said fine cancel it. best thing that has happened to me money wise i only watch netflix and youtube 99% of the time. i can log into my sisters cable if i need regular tv or just use putlocker for the really rare time i need some thing else.
after i cancelled dish keep sending me officers to sign back up, i never would again now so they lost me forever just by not giving a deal
So a few months ago we were going to cancel our Sky because it was just so expensive for TV, phone and broadband (and it wasnt even that good broadband). So we asked for a discount. They said, "Sorry, there's currently no deals we can offer you."
We switched to Virgin now, and went back to Sky to tell them we were cancelling. Suddenly, a plethora of deals popped up!
Well too late.
Singaporean here, I can get 1Gbps U/D for US$28/mo from 5 different providers, 2Gbps U/D for US$40/mo (1 provider), or 10 Gbps U/D for US$137/mo (4 providers), all with no data caps or traffic shaping. Yes, all of these are residential plans Home broadband is awesome and cheap, but our mobile broadband plans are expensive AF (US$35/mo for 3GB of data...). There’s a new telco in town though, who offers 5GB for US$17/mo and 25 for US$35, so hopefully things get better.
I agree with your assessment of the small business owner. However, if 3 shops opened on your block who sell exactly what you sell, and all 4 of you have a business model of introductory pricing, you don't have loyal customers. You have customers on a merry-go-round running from shop to shop to shop getting the best deal.
I do believe in service and good service costs more, but I recently had my cable bill jump from $154 a month to $253 (because my promo expired). There is no service difference you could give me that would help me reconcile with a 61% price increase. Especially when I can cancel, and call the next guy on the list who will give me the same service for $155.
I tried that with direct tv. I told them I could save $1400 over two years by bundling TV with Verizon. They offered free HBO for 3 months. I told them I don't want more channels, I want the number on the bill to be smaller. Not hing doing. I was switched over by the end of the week.
Ironically, Verizon sold operations to Frontier, who jacked up the rate and lowered QoS, so I'm back on DTV - at the promo rate.
This. When I worked at comcast, if I even suggested having someone call retention for a better rate I would have been written up.
My family swaps to a new member being the owner every X months.
Because, there's no better way for Comcast to treat a loyal customer than to up their rate ever year.
It's all relative, friend
90% of American census blocks have at least two choices for speeds of 10+ Mbps. Some providers only have service in part of a given block, so this probably translates to 70%+ Americans having two or more providers. For 3+ Mbps, 90%+ Americans have 2 or more providers.
For services like phone and cable, there is even more competition.
"Oh you still can't help me?"
"No sir, it's not available in your area"
"Okay, looks like I'm cutting the cord and going with hulu, amazon prime, and Netflix since it will still be cheaper than your service"
See if anything happens then. I got a discount with twc and then decided to still cancel because I realized it was still cheaper than the discount and i still got to keep watching everything I like. I bought HD antenna for the local stations and receive 2-7 letters a week about bundling phone and cable with my internet. Sorry Spectrum but what I'm doing is still way cheaper.
Not always. Worked in the "oh shit, they're canceling" teams or "retentions" and 9 times out of 10 we don't have the ability to give you the same rate even managers can't usually. The prices change all the time and they have to work with what they have available there isn't a magic button that lets them enter in any price.
Also in my experience people who call in threatening to cancel over the price will get as close as what they asked for but people who call in genuinely querying and are nice will actually get a lot more because they deserve it, such as 2 months free if they renew.
I live in a small city and have 4 options.
Heavy internet usage here and in U.K. I change every 12 months or threaten for bettter
Seems like a really shitty system that doesn't benefit anyone except the provider.
What a scam that they want you to rent a modem, over here I think a majority of providers give you one for free because you chose them (atleast the ones I picked) aswell as a heavy discount on your monthly payments for 3 months.
Wouldn't that mean they were giving it to all customers?
It makes sense only to the customer. Most businesses have next to 0 incentive to do that. You're loyal, you're already coming back. They're not charities or clubs, they're businesses.
Yeah, I have two choices and I tried to get a cheaper price on ISP #1. They told me no, that's an offer for new customers only. I told them it was time for me to be a new customer of ISP #2 then and get their deals.
Canada thinks it's cute that you think $35 a month for 3gb is expensive.