Wait, what's bad about virped? I just looked, and it seems to be a community that aims to help pedophiles (as in the attraction, not the molestation) live healthy lives whilst controlling their urges. Doesn't seem bad to me?
Question: What precisely does virped.org do? If it's a support group for helping pedos NOT act on their obsessions, and generally not break the law, then maybe, just maybe, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Them seeking help controlling themselves is a good thing.
Can't make that connection with TOR, sorry. It's a ridiculous assumption. Granted, paedophiles use it for sharing cp, but them and many others use it for many other things.
Nothing. I don't understand this either.
Members share the belief that sexual activity between adults and children is wrong and always will be.
I have to downvote, not because I support anybody mentioned, but because I can't support witch-hunting and guilt-by-association tactics, even with good targets.
It's very tempting, because that's standard operating procedure for the people mentioned, but I still think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Galvez has more than enough to condemn him by his own words and actions, we don't need to condemn him for the words and actions of others.
Just my 2 cents.
That Max guy even says: "I do not act on that attraction. I am not a sex offender."
I really don't see the problem here. Seems like he recognizes pedophilia as a problem and obviously does something to not become a molester or whatever. I hate that Nyberg asshole who publicly defended sex with children and made creepy posts about how he wanted to fuck his 8 year old cousin. But going after pedophiles who get help and don't act on their urges is a bad thing, because it discourages others from seeking help. That's how you create child molesters.
That may be the logical conclusion, but there is this thing called evidence. Everything else can be tied neatly together, though.
"We're just trying to start a conversation about children in porn." - SJW's in a week.
Don't forget Kirtaner, pedophile and owner of 420chan, which hosted child porn (and raid/harassment) boards until they were scrubbed and moved to 12chan (and guess who used to post there?). Naturally, he's friends with the usual suspects and can be seen conversing with Lifschitz, Zoe, Wu, Nyberg, Randi, Katherine Cross, femfreq, Iggy, Spacedad and so on. Must be a coincidence that all these harassers and pedophiles know each other and are covering for each other though.
Which brings up the question why the fuck is this dude defending Nyberg.
There is a point to the argument that simply being attracted to children does not make one a bad person, however. Sexual attraction is not a choice, and condemning someone for a condition that they were born with is unhelpful and small-minded, IMO.
All people will experience temptation in their lives, but it is how we behave when these temptations are presented that should define us, not the temptations themselves. Honestly if there wasn't such immediate, automatic hatred for inactive pedophiles they might feel more encouraged to seek psychological help.
The way this sub has acted regarding pedophilia concerns me- first back in the day when everyone condemned Gawker for what was honestly a pretty well-written and sincere piece on people who feel an attraction to children that they refuse to act on, to now, where people who are honest about their attraction are being attacked for it.
I hope I'm not the only one troubled by this.
But going after pedophiles who get help and don't act on their urges is a bad thing, because it discourages others from seeking help. That's how you create child molesters.
Precisely. This pedo hunt is ill conceived. It's better for people to come forward with these issues, and ask for help. If people can't see how that is a good thing, I don't know man...
They are sick disgusting fucks.
Can I just point out the irony that we're condemning people for who they follow on twitter now?
You know, like the guilt-by-association block list we spent 6 months decrying?
"No one is talking about making Pedophilia ay-okay!" -- SJWs in a month
"Listen guys, we're focusing way too much about pedophilia when we should be focusing on racial wage gaps." --SJWs in Three Months
"Are you SERIOUS?! What right do you have to condemn people just because of who they find attractive? Stop being so discriminatory!" -- SJWs in half a year.
"#AgeIsJustANumberMovement" -- SJWs in four years.
This does not seem out of character for them.
it's a reasonable assumption, but it's still an assumption, and you shouldn't take actions based on assumptions.
Unless you're assuming that a man is a rapist. In that case, you should jump happily at the chance to go off half-cocked.
The Internet is trying to kill me.
What a fucking drama queen.
Fuck this, man. Having sites/groups like VIRPED is EXACTLY what pedophiles should have access to. I'm very disappointed with how this has been discussed. Being born with pedophilia is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Now, Butts didn't seem to give a shit...but there is nothing wrong with trying to seek out other pedophile for support in an attempt to wrestle with these urges.
Edit: If anyone hasn't read the piece NPR shared, You're 16. You're a Pedophile. You don't want to hurt anyone. What do you do now?, they really should.
I don't think anybody disagrees that he's likely using TOR for child porn, but that it's not enough evidence to accuse him of it.
That's fucked up and people who support Nyberg should get flak for that.
Yeah, I'm very disappointed with how this has been discussed. Being born with pedophilia is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Now, Butts didn't seem to give a shit...but there is nothing wrong with trying to seek out other pedophiles for support in an attempt to wrestle with these urges.
"Age is a social construct while age of consent laws are discriminatory based solely on that construct and a perception that maturity comes from age rather than exposure to Bell Hooks."
Thanks for saying this. It's important that we exercise our freedom to disagree in this sub and don't become a monolithic bloc.
8chan isn't GamerGate no more than Reddit is GamerGate.
Both of these are merely platforms for many different individuals, you can find same variety of topics discussed on youtube, doesn't mean that because group A and group K both post there, that they are allied.
However we may feel about these people, I don't believe that anyone can choose to be attracted to children or not, and hating or shaming someone because of that attraction, regardless of whether or not they've ever harmed a child, is illogical, cruel, and small-minded.
I might be in the minority here but I don't want a movement which I otherwise praise to appear monolithic on this issue.
The whole pedophilia witchhunt has gone out of hand. The problem isn't pedophilia (this is usually considered something one cannot change), it's about whether a child is in danger or anything damaging the the child has been committed. That's the whole point of the moral wrong of child molestation - it's about the safety of a child. In case of Nyberg, there's evidence of obsession about a child who was within his/her potential reach, so there's certainly plenty of red flags. Going after pedophiles in general and anyone associated with them with pitchforks and torches is irrational to say the least. Consider it sexual abnormality, or illness if you will. We can't condemn them for being ill or for wrongthink, or in this case involuntary wrongthink.
I hope the sane minds prevail here.
Everyone in this thread is fucking retarded - what the fuck happened to fact checking and source reading? The Virtuous Pedophiles site is a site that 1000% supports the PROTECTION of children, you fucking morons, no one on that site says anything like "Age is just a number" or the other straw mans in this garbage thread. There are people who ACTUALLY MOLEST CHILDREN, and THEY ARE THE BAD PEOPLE - not the people who say "I'm attracted to children, but I won't do anything about that because it's reprehensible". You're all fucking idiots.
Edit: There's a bit more sanity in this thread now, when I first wrote this comment it was a cesspit of hatred against the wrong group of people
Shhh, don't get in the way of the moral panic with facts and logic.
It's actually an interesting case since it shows "feels > reals" from the other side.
this certainly sounds like what agg says about 8chan.
Not necessarily virtuous, but better than those that do
GamerGate's has only had the success it's had because we've turned the rhetoric and tactics of SJWs against them. If they're effective, use them.
This is essentially "There are no bad tactics, only bad targets".
Who the fuck do you think you are?
OH SHIT! I HEARD THERE ARE PEDOS ON REDDIT!
QUICK! DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT!
Or just accept you're a fucking hypocrite
Normally I would agree with you, but when someone admits to being a pedophile, well, what do you think they need Tor for?
Oh so you ~outrank~ me, huh? Oh, excuse me, sir, I'll just be shutting the fuck up now. /s
No. Fuck you. Elitism has no fucking place here. The entire philosophy of GamerGate is based around a capitalist and democratic approach to intellectual thought. If we dogmatically followed the leader and never spoke up about issues we have with the establishment, then we'd be no better than the SJW's.
Independent thought and the freedom to challenge one another is absolutely vital to everything we stand for. Your pathetic fucking internet posturing means nothing to me, and I honestly have no idea how the fuck a person like you ended up here.
This whole pedo thing puts me off GG a bit, it isn't exactly what this sub started out hoping to find, it's a bit scary.
But this Max personal we'll be a pedophile who controls his urges, is that really something to insult? It's really weird to make publicly available but those attracted to children but fully aware of how bad it is to act on such urges and not acting on those urges may have it a bit tough.
I don't know what to say but was it ever pedophiles that were the problem rather than the things they actually do? (Btw Sarahbutts on the chat logs did do some things that seem deserving of jail time)
Do you ever stop fucking lying? We don't defend pedophiles, you do. We defend 8chan from the accusations that it's a CP haven which is complete bullshit.
I think you just triggered her remotely by capitalizing her name.
No, it wouldn't Remember: SJW's are merely a modern day reincarnation of the previous generation of puritans, censors and thought police. Freedom of all kinds will always be under attack by these people.
It's really nice to know that there are others within GamerGate who feel this way. Thanks for making yourself known.
I hope so hard that this is right about pedo being the next SJW push, I would LOVE to see them die on that hill, I mean seriously, that would be THE END of SJWs, period, instantly.
I know more than one person well who has a thing for minors, one of whom was jailed for attempting to purchase child porn (bad thing, because children are involving in the manufacture of that).
Demonising people doesn't really help anybody. Focus on the bad acts, and make a clear alternative to badness. If a person thinks they are evil no matter what they do, they are more likely to do something actually bad.
Things in one's head alone don't hurt anybody.
Exactly. I think there's a high likelihood it's true, but I won't support witch hunts no matter who the target is.
And if the guy in question is a non-offending pedophile, I'm happier he's out in the open. I didn't look into the virtuous pedophiles group, but if there's help and support for non-offenders who want to remain non-offenders, great. Regardless of how it's classified, I doubt anybody wants to be a pedophile, and people who aren't trying to make excuses to prey on kids don't deserve the same treatment as people like Sarah Butts.
Of course, when the people who claim to be non-offenders or on the side of non-offenders jump to the defense of Butts, that certainly doesn't look good, and it makes me shudder at the thought of what is yet to be uncovered.
You use Twitter? FUCKING ISIS SUPPORTER!!!!1!
That is level of your "logic"
Yeah, if anyone hasn't read the piece NPR shared You're 16. You're a Pedophile. You don't want to hurt anyone. What do you do now?, they really should.
That is an unfair assumption to make. GamerGate has consistently been a voice for the rights of the accused and for opposition to the overzealous condemnation of people based on incomplete or circumstantial evidence.
Our commitments and our ideals should not change simply because a person in question is our ideological opposition.
Yes, we should begin a dialogue. Pedophilia is a real mental illness and those who suffer from it should be able to gain access to the treatment they need without being judged morally for something they have no control over.
Apparently I must be clear here: I am not defending those who molest or rape children- that is a choice made of their own volition and therefore an action that we are well within our rights to judge them for morally, but the mere temptation is not enough for us to define the character of another human being.
You're reaching aGG levels of jumping to conclusions. How about we stick with facts instead of speculations?
Obviously, the community in here is on my side, and sees you for exactly what the fuck you are. An astonishingly irrational narcissist with your head so far up your own ass you can't fucking see straight.
If you're too blind to see that "I've done more for GamerGate and therefore I'm right and you're wrong" is diametrically opposed to everything that this subreddit and this community stands for, then I honestly don't know how you're intellectually capable enough to tie your own shoes.
When you spend 20 hours a day on it, it can, by diabeetus.
potential 8ch ones are anonymous and we have no idea who they are
meanwhile you guys are rallying around one that we all know and trying to deflect
its not going to work
What about them? Must be all the Gamer Ghazi posters looking for an anonymous platform to post their filth. We condemn that shit and also know Hot Wheels deletes that shit and sends information to law enforcement. Unlike you guys who are actively supporting a pedophile what was it that the big SJW anti GG David Gallent said: "oh the concept of childhood is just a Victorian thing"
Anyhow according to your side they might just be being "edgy" so no harm no foul right? Just the "edgy" thing to do : ^ )
Fuck off pedo apologist and lover.
Gotta pin anything they can on us to make us look bad while defending a self admitted pedophile.
SJWs do defend Sarah, when did GG do the same for anyone on 8chan?
EDIT: Correct me if I am wrong, but in general when did GG defend anybody beside people who were wrongly accused or slandered with lies (based mom)? We even "kicked" out certain people from movement who acted like idiots. KOP for example.
Yeah, but you are conflating anons with distinct people. I know your deflector shields are hot, so I won't bother engaging you further. Geh ins Bett, mstrkrft-, du bist betrunken!
Waiting for "Not being attracted to children is ageist!"
If they start screeching about a racial wage gap I'm going to laugh so fucking hard because a few weeks ago I found out that the government actually pays people to hire me because I'm black.
The fact that he has ostensibly "done more for GamerGate" is utterly irrelevant to the conversation. He is patently, obviously implying that his "street cred" makes him more of an authority on what is right and wrong than I am. What's your issue?
It doesn't trouble me.
People don't generally discuss fantasies of raping people, planting terror bombs, assassinating presidents, performing gender or racial or national genocide either.
Moreover, they don't form clubs based around themes like "I want to rape my son's teacher but I am virtuous enough not to", "I want to gas the jews but I am such a great person that I resist it" or "I want to blow up a church in Madrid but I refrain from doing so out of the goodness of my heart".
Basically, in an ideal world people with fucked up dreams and fantasies could perhaps discuss them openly and get help to manage and refrain from them - but in the actual world we live in people are expected to repress it.
Nobody is treated like a brave hero for saying "I wanted to rape that woman but resisted it". It doesn't surprise me that nobody is hailed for resisting the urge to abuse children either.
Members share the belief that sexual activity between adults and children is wrong and always will be.
So the exact opposite of sarah
And who are you to say that? Alcohol addicts don't put up a front of sobriety only to go to AA meetings and secretly get wasted. There are people out there who seriously want to manage their urges and addictions.
Being attracted to children sounds incredibly difficult to live with and I imagine there are a great number of pedophiles who really struggle with that side of themselves, and desire to do everything they can to prevent themselves from acting on it.
It's not like they can just easily get help. Even going to a psychiatrist for something like that must be an incredibly difficult step, and they can't talk with anyone else without risking their lives and reputation. Can you imagine if someone found out they were physically attending pedophilia management meetings?
Our society absolutely despises and seeks to destroy pedophiles, and while I can understand what causes that reaction, all it accomplishes is to discourage ill people from getting the help they need, and push them towards breaking. If you tell someone they're a monster enough times, they'll start to believe it.
So if they're turning to each other for help in managing their urges, why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming it's just a front for sharing child porn and planning out the details of how they're going to fuck kids?
agreed on all counts.
A lot of people in this thread are out for blood when it comes to inactive pedophiles. It's ugly.
As divided as your opinion will undoubtedly make people, I agree: The issue should remain with the active participation part, not the attraction part. Pedophilia is stigmatized to the point that people who are otherwise fairly forward-thinking will damn individuals without a second thought.
We shouldn't condemn someone for something they have no control over. That said, yes, we should come down on those that act on those desires. Producing or consuming media that harms or takes advantage of children should be punished appropriately.
Very little of the "evidence" you've linked supports anything that you've said. Almost all of it is simply exploring the causes for sexual attraction to children- which is not something that I dispute. In fact, from your third source:
It is extremely important not to confuse pedophilia—meaning the sexual interest in children—with actual child molestation. Not every person who experiences sexual attractions to children acts on those attractions. People who are pedophilic but who work to remain celibate their entire lives are being increasingly recognized as needing and deserving all the support society can give them.
Did you just google "pedophilia articles" and hope that I wouldn't actually read any of them?
There's no way to reform a paedophile, there's nothing you can do to "help" them and given enough time and chance they will ruin a child's life.
The only possible solution is chemical castration.
I'm sorry, are you a doctor? You sound like a fucking character out of The Crucible.
You've got to be trolling, right?
Who am I to judge someone for what happens, involuntarily, inside their own minds? Are we living in the world of fucking thought crimes here?
I judge people based on their actions, not their temptations.
I'm LGBT. I believe any consenting adults should be able to do what they want without fear of discrimination in the safety of their own home. I don't care how many of you there are or what is between their legs. My only two rules is everyone must be consenting and an adult.
Look at this!
/sub/gamerghazi's biggest fanboy is back again!
I think hes using the internet for child porn.
Apparently some people here are only opposed to thought police when it's their thoughts being policed.
Aren't we the group that spoke out against "preponderance of evidence" standards? What you have here doesn't even amount to that.
There are a few logical jumps in your reasoning.
There's a large difference between the discussion of morality and illegality.
We can say "hey, this person/people are disgusting in that they want to fuck real life kids and share images of clothed children" without saying "and they should be locked up for it when it's currently not a crime".
As well, I would never defend that the pedo users on there are acting morally, but in the same manner I wouldn't call the U.S. government a bunch of pedophiles for their lawmaking, I refuse to call an admin who defers to the US government on content removal a pedophiles for allowing legal material.
I've heard about this site before, so I had to do a little lookup to see if I remembered correctly. Now, from what I'm reading, VirPed is a support site that fights to remove stigma from pedophiles (not offenders), as well as having a very strict "do not offend" policy.
Honestly? This sounds like a much better idea, and a much more efficient tool at keeping children safe than demonizing all pedophiles to the point where the only people they can ever have some kind of social interaction with are other pedophiles who may be offenders and/or more evil themselves. That kind of alienation is what breeds extremism, people. If you tell a person he's a monster long enough, he'll start acting like a monster, and hang out with all the other monsters. (And damn me if I start a whole debate of THAT character on here)
If this guy is actually a pedophile, but a non offending pedophile who does not offend even if some or all his miswired instincts tell him to, then all creds to him, and not something I see any point in judging him for.
I think I saw a tweet from Izzy saying that just because they favorited my tweet doesn't mean I have any connection with them. The total lack of self awareness is astonishing. Izzy does that all the time, but hey I you are gonna defend one pedo, might as well defend them all.
Handling disagreements like adults? No way. Can't we write blog posts about why we're leaving GG and spill spaghetti everywhere instead?