Someone did a study about it. There is a treshold above which more money doesn't increase your happiness anymore - but until you reach it, it certainly does. We all instinctively know it if we ever lived on a lower class income. Constant worrying how you're going to make ends meet, physical exhaustion from working long hours, sadness when you can't buy your child the birthday gift they dreamed of... You feel immense relief when your financial situation improves and you lose this burden.
No, money can't buy friends and family, but it helps you appreciate those you already have and spend time with them in a meaningful way.
If hazy memory serves, in modern America the threshold is around $74k per year. Varies with region due to cost of living, but it's approximately the point where you can afford food and shelter, insurance, provide for a family, and have enough of a cushion of savings to be able to handle whatever life throws at you without significantly affecting your lifestyle.
Hey hey hey now, let’s not go about redistributing wealth too hastily now... let me tell you about this reverse-funnel theory called “trickle-down”... /s
I saw recently if you split the wealth in the US evenly then every houswhold would get >200k a year. Don't remember the exact numbers but yeah we could do it immediately without doing anything to other countries.
“Money can’t buy happiness” says literally every capitalist doing anything they can to become as wealthy as possible
Money can’t buy happiness, but it can buy you options. And that’s the crux - when you have options, you have a greater shot at happiness. When you have none, you’re miserable.
Well, shit, sounds like we're long overdue to fix some crap, then.
How feasible would it be to get every person in America to that threshold without kicking a bunch of people in other countries down?
Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you out of all sorts of miseries
One thing to remember is that lifestyles in the West are only affordable at current levels due to exploitation of the third world. If everyone in the world had an even split of the total global income, we couldn’t all afford to live the way we do in the West. At least, not until there’s more automation.
I don't know why millionaires complain about anything. I could and would retire if someone deposited a million dollars in my bank account. How hard is it to live off that? Buy an RV to live in, invest a little, and live modestly. I'd never need another dime in my life.
Crying because you cant afford spaghetti and rent after 40 hours a week.
Oh this person knows my pain.
it'd be a great world if only the rich had to worry about users, predators, and con artists, but poor people have to worry about that shit too.
To quote the great Kanye West:
“Having money’s not everything; not having it is”
The people would never go for it... would they? /s
Not really when it's contrasted against "Food or electricity?"
I have the guillotine theory where the blood of the corrupt instead tirckles down T H E S T E P S O F C A P I T A L H I L L
I wish people would stop using "baby boomer" as a code for "bourgeois". It just creates confusion.
Dem golf plated toilet seats tho
Lack of money generally brings starvation and homelessness so if I have to choose between:
a) being poor, starving and homeless
b) rich and in some sort of pseudo-philosophically nebulous "pain"
I'll take option "b", please and thank you
I think it's only said by people with money.
Money is not sufficient for happiness. You'll need a lot of other stuff that money can't buy. But money is certainly required for happiness. You can have everything else but if you don't have money thenyou don't have safety, food, comfort, peace of mind, health, etc.
Money can't buy happiness, but it will serve as a down payment.
"Lifestyles in the West" seems like way too big of a generalization. I've worked 50-60 hour weeks for two decades and can't afford medical or dental care. People do better making a quarter as much in "shittier" places. I have a good friend in California who drives deliveries 20-30 hours a week and lives in the same car, hoping every night he won't be fined for sleeping in the wrong place. We shouldn't have to get any worse off for others to get better.
Yeah. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to improve the material conditions of the first world poor, but part of the process has to be recognising that true justice would be international, not just in one country. Otherwise we run the risk of cementing structural inequalities across country boundaries where they’re even easier to ignore.
Yeah I don't really want to see what >$100k worth of piss would look like, thanks.
Poverty causes depression and money cures poverty.
Not really the point you don't have to think about it anymore. It's more the point when you can stop worrying about it constantly.
It's only said by people who never had no money.
And let's be honest a second : It's more comfy to cry on the sadness of your life in a brand new BMW M6 that on a bicycle.
If it can't buy happiness, then I'm sure all these wealthy fuck monkeys won't mind taking a pay cut to ensure their front line employees can afford food, housing, and healthcare without having to work more than 40 hours a week. But if they aren't willing to give up some of their pay, then I can assume money does actually buy happiness.
We don't. We just think that people shouldn't feel compelled into slavery in the name of someone else's bottom line.
Meh. I've recently found out you can be poor as shit and your "friends" are still parasites. Except they want emotional energy and investment rather than straight money.
If I had the cash I'd pay for fair-weather friends. Fuck yeah, lets go have a few laughs and a few beers, no commitment. It's like casual sex, only more fun.
Close, but not quite. I believe the threshold you're thinking of is around $75k. You DO still get happier when you get more money (someone who makes $200k will generally be happier than someone who makes $100k), but the returns SEVERELY diminish after that threshold.
Totally true! I took the question to just be asking about the current state of things in the US.
There's someone in africa thinking the exact same thing about the american minimum wage. "I don't know why americans complain about anything. If I made $20,000 per year I could live modestly in health and comfort".
Turns out there are plenty of ways to be miserable, even if your finances are sorted.
That amount of income needed would also be lower if we had things like universal healthcare.
The median family income is under $60,000 in the US. Making above $200,000 household income would put you in the top 4-ish%.
The people who work the hardest work multiple jobs and/or in the fields.
Many times the people who make the most, work the least, they’ll just make bigger decisions.
Yes, as we all know, Jeff Bezos literally works millions of times harder than the workers in his Amazon warehouses. The meritocracy works! /s
Exactly. If money is more important than people then this will happen.
That’s fair. A more accurate way to say that would have been “upper middle class lifestyles”. I don’t really like using middle class because pretty much everyone thinks they’re middle class, but I’m talking about the lifestyle that people have when they have 200k annual income.
Jesus Larry, when I said, "Tonight, we're going to paint the town red," it was just a figure of speech!
Wasn't already in the sub that I saw when I posted it. If there is another post of this here, this one is more popular currently. I have not downvoted you. I have no reason to be salty.
It's more the point when you can stop worrying about it constantly.
Good god yes. It feels better to think about what I would like to eat that night for dinner, rather than eating the cheapest calories I can find while worrying about how much power I'm using to cook... so on and so forth.
Money can't buy happiness but it can remove sources of unhappiness.
This is false. I don’t have any links on hand, but I remember a recent study found that the vast majority of wealth is inherited. Only a tiny, tiny percent of wealthy people can say they came from “rags to riches”.
Pretty much. It's the point where you don't really have to think about money anymore.
The expression predates the birth of the first boomer by a couple of generations, so it's not accurate, either. (It's annoying enough to be blamed for all the faults of some members of my generation, without being blamed for 1920s nonsense too.)
$20,000 in Africa buys a lot more than $20,000 in US.
GDP per capita is about $56k per person, every man, woman and child; so a family of four is definitely about $224k a year.
The flip side here is that in seven years the cost of living has gone up every year while minimum wage has not.
Well no, that's actually the point here- once you're past the point of $74k you've resolved all the life stressors that can be resolved with more money. There are certainly other sources of angst, and research has shown that beyond the point of having a stable, reliable financial footing more money does not make you more happy.
when people talk about meritocracy, ask them how they feel about a 100% estate tax
This is something I had to learn recently. Once I started putting my foot down and telling them I couldn't help them with their problems constantly, they walked. People knew my shoulder better than they knew me.
Truer words were never spoken. My wife and I struggled for many, many years. A recent bump of 30% household income COMPLETELY changed our lives. We are not by any means wealthy, but not getting behind or living “check to check” has made every aspect of our lives better.
No one working full-time in America should have to worry about homelessness or hunger, and on one should have to worry about education or healthcare..
Um, where do you think a lot of that wealth comes from? If you don't share it with the world, you're just continuing to steal from them.
I believe that's Trump's end goal for the US.
Plus there are bourgeois of all ages, generational thinking is such an old concept there were ancient Greeks blaming the previous generation for their current flaws.
Medical debt, spending hundreds a month paying for prescriptions for a chronic illness, specialists "out of network" paying for your aging parents care
no one should have to worry about any of those things, whether they work full-time or not.
And GDP is only a measure of income, not wealth.
Lets see, latest one hundred thousand dollars divided by PissPrice, ounces to gallons...
(100000/(69/5.5))/128 = 62.27 gallons
Really not that much it seems...
I've pissed away millions!!! What a fool I've been!
Reminds me of “all you need is love”...sung by young, world famous multimillionaires living in Western Europe.
Living in a one bedroom apartment with three guys is only fun for the first night.
Because we live in a capitalistic system, I always tell my kids, money buys freedom, freedom to do what you love, doing what you love is happiness.
But I would so much prefer to just skip the money part, die to capitalism!
W A V Y
my parents who own 3 high value properties outright arent worried that my generation cant afford a deposit on a house let alone the mortgage because my generation will inherit. they also tell me they want to spend all their money before they die. not to mention all the people who cant afford a house AND dont have anyone to inherit from
Well also we need to keep in mind that a lot of things in the USA are overpriced, like healthcare. Once we have single payer, our society will save about 500 billion every year, right off the bat. Once we look at other things, like housing, education, internet providers, etc., you start seeing that prices are much higher than they need to be.
We'd still be doing all the shit we're already doing to other countries, though.
This is why I sort of agree with the saying. Money can't buy happiness because it implies a society still using money to exploit individuals and ultimately degrading people.
Sort of like saying slavery can't buy happiness, well even I'd it helps you save time and energy if you find slavery immoral and abhorrent then even with all the benefit you might receive your likely going to have some degree of misery.
It's not, but it is feasible to get to get past the poverty line. The difference in quality of life increased much more from $20k-$30k than from $70k-$80k.
Standard of living and lifestyle in the west in general are pretty wasteful and needless though... Think about all the waste of resources and environmental damage capitalism causes in the first place. If the entire world became communist in the snap of a finger everyone could in fact, live comfortably without having to work more than 20 hours a week producing what is needed and some luxuries, without all the waste, exclusion and exploitation. Then people would have a lot more time to devote to actual socioeconomically beneficial scientific and technological endeavors, like spurring a full automation revolution. Profit motive and competition don't produce for the needs/actual wants of people and certainly aren't ethical or concerned about the vast amounts of waste these economic conditions incentivize.
Let's just say if capitalism had collapsed into a communist society at least 50 years ago, we would probably be getting most of our energy straight from the sun or other efficient, scientifically advanced methods for efficiently obtaining more than enough energy.
Capitalism does not want renewable and efficient energy sources... Because that doesn't generate short term, steady flows of profit, both for the energy source(sun, can't patent/exclude people from that, silly) and the tech/equipment.
Capitalism and its dynamics as we know it create the illusion of resource scarcity.
I've already seen this today in this sub. Repost?
Edit: Have I been downvoted by a salty OP? Edit edit: I guess not.
Which we could get by nationalizing the big pharma industries and setting them up as workers' cooperatives, while implementing mandatory price controls, etc?
200k usd per year is nowhere near middle class lol. Not sure where you're getting your low middle class, but most people in the US make less than 50-60k per year for your information.
"Having money's not everything, not having it is" - Kanye "Saint Pablo" West
Biggest understatement ever
Sure. A lot of the cheap labour jobs aren't done in the West any more - they're done in 3rd world countries where labour and environmental laws are lax. The reason a lot of consumer goods are as cheap as they are is because we can produce them with cheap labour and cheap materials gathered with cheap labour. If we had to pay 1st world wages and enforce 1st world environmental regulations in all those 3rd world nations producing our clothes and iphones, they would be a lot more expensive and we would not be able to afford as many of them. It doesn't just apply to consumer goods too, things like building materials are affected as well.
So basically, the only way we in the 1st world can maintain the lifestyle we have with our current wages is by outsourcing our cheap jobs to the 3rd world.
There's been a fair bit of scientific research into this and to my understanding, this is pretty much the scientific consensus. Money CAN buy happiness, but only to a certain extent. After a certain threshold, money just starts becoming useless but when you need it just to scrape by, it's necessary(at least under c(r)apitalism...)
I mean, money doesn't GUARANTEE happiness. You can be extremely wealthy and still INCREDIBLY miserable.
But all things being equal, I think most everyone would want AT LEAST a living wage.
"Instead of complaining about slavery why don't you just buy your freedom?"
Responding to a criticism of society by blaming individuals is weak and dishonest.
I dont think he was talking about how the person who has it feels. But the negative outcome it has on the competition. One man suffers while another man gains.
The only thing money brings is pain.