They were in an impossible position. They were supposed to put on a dog and pony show investigation and find nothing, but the corruption and collusion of the Trump team is so pervasive and sloppy that compelling evidence is being thrown at them from all sides and they can't find a reasonable way to ignore it all of it. The only thing left for them to do was get off the train tracks and keep their heads down in the hopes that people will forget about them because of how spectacular the crash will be.
My question to these asswipes is this: Was Trump worth it? Was Trump really worth destroying your career and ruining your name (such as it was)?
That's a great summary. Exactly the way it appears.
Total train wreck, and the biggest political scandal of our lifetime....and we're gonna have to wait 20 years for Comey's book to learn just how big a suckers we were, and just how they somehow avoided transparency and justice.
in a way, this is WORSE than Watergate
Huge understatement there.
Watergate was the Republicans stealing secrets from the Democrats for political gain.
The current situation is the Republicans selling out the country to the Russians for political and financial gain.
Recovering from this will require removal of the PoTUS (and much of his cabinet), possibly the disintegration of an entire party, and writing far-reaching laws no one ever dreamed would be needed.
Watergate can't hold a candle to this.
Seems Chaffetz may not even finish his term.
BREAKING NEWS: @jasoninthehouse tells KSL's @DougWrightShow he might not finish his Congressional term. Updates now http://ksl360.com/radio
Update: Thanks to u/UnnamedArtist. We may see his resignation as early as tomorrow.
I don't know, not if we get another "All the President's Men" type situation. And, in a way, this is WORSE than Watergate in it's implications.
Watergate racked the country for two years over exposing a filthy, underlying political apparatus of Nixon's own creation (or tacit acceptance). It amounted to dirty politics against his opponents and the cover-up was so badly botched that it led to his resignation.
This situation? It was bad from Jump Street. Fuck, it was bad before the election and it involves being in bed with a foreign superpower and literally undermining our democracy.
I don't see how this can't end with impeachment or resignation. The only thing that'll save Trump is that the spineless Republican majority will be willfully ignorant of the borderline treason that's occurred.
Something must have really rattled him. He spent years going after Clinton and didn't behave like this.
Trump isn't doing super awesome in Utah right now. Chaffetz is stepping aside because he might be beat by a Female Democrat. He also said some things that are going to send his career up in flames when they're endlessly repeated come election season.
Nunes was removed from his spot because even the GOP was aware that having him in charge was a lose lose. If the committee found no cooperation, then his position would taint that and it would never die, if they did, then well, GOP loses anyway. He was pushed aside because of the optics, but I'm sure he'll run again in 2018.
It's not like "investigating" trump is the kiss of death, these guys were kicked out because they were too partisan, too corrupt, or too inept to do the job and it was making the GOP look bad.
Maybe it wasn't for Trump, maybe someone has dirt on them and is forcing their hand. Some of their actions truly are illogically stupid for any other explanation.
Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
I'm fairly certain Chaffetz and Nunes are both protecting the Republican party above all else, and since that seems impossible in their current position, are stepping aside to save their skins.
The "giant deficits of Red states" is a hallmark of Republican control, because the Republicans work for the very wealthy and the very wealthy have an agenda that this serves. They want an economically pressured populace that blames the subgroup below them for their condition and never looks up at who's really pressuring them.
As the saying goes, Fox News is "the wealthy paying the rich to convince the middle-class that the poor is the real problem". In other words, it's called "punching down".
Since the Reagan era, Republicans have going about the business of destroying the middle class while simultaneously screaming that they're all about being "for" the middle class.
It's a scam, and a very pre-meditated one.
They've attacked unions, the education system, environmental efforts, alternative energy, a living wage, civil rights, equal pay for women, on and on. Everything they do is designed to suppress the middle class and create division and strife so that they'll blame minorities, immigrants and the poor and clamor for even tougher and more draconian politicians to "save them".
I once talked politics with a guy that had served a long prison sentence and he told me something that has always stuck with me. He asked me, "How do 30 guards control 3,000 prisoners? Restriction of resources, punishment of tiny infractions and dividing them by race. The groups are much too busy fighting each other over scraps and avoiding punishment to ever join forces to overtake the well-armed guards. They can't trust each other so they just keep their heads down and survive as best they can."
Republican politicians condition their masses of voters to and Progressive goals through Right Wing pundits like Rush, Beck, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, and all the AM radio drive-time screamers that hit all the rage buttons they can in their listeners.
When a Bernie Sanders comes along with a Progressive message, they release the hounds. The message of unity, fair play, truth, a healthy environment, universal healthcare and responsible governance is something the guards will fight to the death to keep from the prisoners.
Republicans want us poor, scared, sick, hungry and fighting amongst ourselves. That makes us easily herded and too distracted to join together against them.
Why do you think they're so against net neutrality? They killed the Fairness Doctrine and look how much ground they gained... they want an internet where they can throttle down to a trickle any message they don't like and open up an 8-lane highway for the message they do want.
What? But I thought he loved investigations!
The Siberian Candidate
He built his career screaming at and about Democrats. Now that Republicans run the government he has literally no idea what to do or even how to act.
Holy shit damn. This should be higher up. He scared?
Are they just hoping people will forget about them when figurative heads start to roll?
He will be replaced by Romney, who will take over Chaffettz's position on the oversight committee. Romney will lead the impeachment of Trump. This will all happen well before the 2018 elections, saving the GOP from the blue tsunami.
Loved them so much he will even be investigated himself!
Being old, I remember the Watergate hearings vividly. It was an amazing show, from supercilious ass-clown Erlichman, to John Dean, the revelation that everything said in the Oval Office was recorded, the missing 18 minute segment of the incredibly demoralizing Nixon recordings - what a show.
Sadly we don't have the likes of Sam Ervin, Archibald Cox, Sam Dash and others with a zeal for the truth and balls of steel available to prosecute this investigation. And that's what worries me.
Don't forget Jeff Sessions.
Don't underestimate 1) the democrats ability to blow it and; 2) how moronic most of the electorate is. I mean seriously.
He could try doing his job without partisan blinders on, but I suppose that's too much to ask.
Not seeking re-election is one thing, resigning mid term is another thing. He's in deep
Chaffetz is not running for reelection, thank the fucking stars.
Chaffetz is thinking about resigning. I agree they are trying to save their own skin, but in this scenario they are trying to stay out of jail.
I doubt it. Everyone Trump touches ends up getting fucked. See Michael Flynn, Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, Carter Page, Paul Manafort.
I'm hopeful this means that the obvious crimes of the Trump Administration are so heinous that they realize they'd be committing Republican Party suicide for bringing down Trump and his cronies.
It means it'll be an easier case for someone else, but Chaffetz and Nunes should be held accountable for what amounts to depraved indifference.
Catching Russian fever twice in the back of the head while locked in a dufflebag at the bottom of an elevator shaft on a sunken ship is typically an unnerving prospect.
Donald Trump is a good fellow. He is said to occasionally wave as he passes by in his chauffeur driven limousine. "The common man is revolting" is his favorite saying.
If it's one thing that has to happen after all of this is said and done, real laws need to be put in place for it to never happen again. Much of what Trump is getting away with was never done based on principle, respect for the country and our democratic institutions, and tradition, not because it was specifically illegal such as tax returns and divesting from a business. We've found out that when you install a bunch of greedy, corrupt, narcissists into power, anything that isn't technically illegal they will just ignore and do anyway without thinking twice.
I've seen Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan ignore facts on live TV for years without a hint of irony.
I don't think Chaffetz or Nunes have morals and are stepping aside because of evidence. I think they are stepping aside because they don't want to end up in jail, and I think every American should be aware of that. These fuckers know they did something wrong and probably illegal.
In the words of the Republican party, "You don't do stuff like this unless you did something wrong."
As someone who hates Romney, I would still feel sympathetic pride for him if he directly lead to Trumps impeachment after Trump fucked him so hard during the transition.
My gut tells me they saw the tip of the evidence iceberg and jumped ship.
Do you think they are fine with what happened because they're super rich? Roger Ailes shaped the political opinions of 40% of the US population for a decade. That power was taken from him. Bill O'Reilly was the most popular "journalist" on TV for like ten years. That was taken from him. Michael Fynn was finally in the room for high level national security discussions and given an influential voice on policy. He lost it.
Carter Page and Paul Manafort are actually just political hacks without any obvious sense of pride or ideology, willing to get in bed with even the worst in order to make a buck, so of that least they're probably two people who legit don't give a fuck. But the rest of them got everything their egos said they deserved, attained positions of unambiguous influence and power and fucking lost it all thanks to Trump's stupidity (and their own general shittiness). Rich people don't play for money, and once you make more than $70,000/yr it doesn't affect your happiness. Homeless and destitute is a little more than we can hope for with people that rich. But disgraced and marginalized ain't bad. The punishment has to fit the person, and the worst punishment for an egomaniac is to be stripped of power and influence. The only person in Trump orbit whose ego would be more damaged by poverty is Trump.
As a Utahn, I really hope that if he resigns, he isn't replaced by someone even more extreme.
He's got the scowl and just woke up, distant yet pissed off look down pat.
Unfortunately, TLJ projects silently an air of intelligence and humility.
That is exactly what they are hoping for.
That would be fucking hilarious if Romney took down Trump.
Don't forget Jeff Sessions.
...and Jeff Sessions.
I know people hate what's happening now but it was very very necessary and, quite frankly, the world got very lucky with Trump. Imagine if someone with a treasonous, monstrous agenda rode the populist wave he did into the white house and proceeded to actively de-establish the country...except effectively. Or discreetly. Or intelligently.
Trump is an utter imbecile and a complete piece of shit (as are his children and his administration)...but the problems he's revealing are in the system itself, both Republican AND democratic. It isn't just Chavetz and Nunez, it's also Wasserman-Schultz and McCain and McConnell and Ryan. It's the whole thing. They aren't just revealing their own crooked characters but the cracks in the system that need to be shored and sealed up.
Yes this sucks but I think this is a very very good thing and as an atheist, this is the most convincing argument that there is a God out there watching over us. We got SO lucky with Trump. Now we just have to follow through.
Like I said – he literally doesn't know how to do that
We've all seen Trump's hands - there's no way he'll ever be hung. Hanged maybe...
At least not reelection to the house. Probably try for governor in a couple years.
Gary Busey would be perfect.
Apparently, Chaffetz just said in an interview that he may not finish his term (!).
I won't be satisfied until the orchestrators of this stupid scandal are hung.
Treason is punishable by death. I think perhaps we should remind people why you don't sell out your country for personal gain
Have you seen the giant deficits of Red states? These people aren't interested in doing anything difficult, being shrill opposition is easy
*had to get one for himself
If the Russian investigation is what it looks like it's the biggest scandal in United States history (I won't say the world, that's too US-centric a line of thinking). Watergate will look like Martha Stewart's insider trading empire.
That sounds like the most reasonable explanation but it's still surprising that they have so little integrity that when confronted with all that has transpired, they basically quit and run away.
I only hope one of these days everyone that was involved starts trying to make all kinds of deals, then have the IC say "You can't tell us anything we don't already know."
the missing 18 minute segment of the incredibly demoralizing Nixon recordings
Don't forget his secretary's absurd reenactment of how the segment got "accidentally" erased. Saul Goodman didn't have a secretary as willing to spew bullshit for her boss as Nixon did.
I didn't realize he was possibly resigning. I thought you were lying and had to look it up (only because its too good to be true, didn't want to hope). Holy shit, at this point its hard to not think there's something big coming. They're doing everything panicked people who knew they were about to get caught would do.
All I'm saying is that our culture is really bad at actually punishing celebrities or otherwise rich/powerful people who do evil. I have no idea what's going to happen to these men going forward, but I could fill pages here with names of rich people who did terrible shit and then came back to being rich and famous and beloved after being quiet for a few years.
It's some weird kind of amnesia. But if someone remembers and brings up the fact that "Hey isn't so-and-so a rapist?", they get told that was FOREVER ago and he's super nice now.
People like you (I assume) and I would have our lives absolutely destroyed for doing anything remotely as bad as some of our more famous counterparts.
starring Tommy Lee Jones as Donald Trump
Chaffetz is stepping aside because he might be beat by a Female Democrat.
Utah-3 will not elect a democrat, no matter how bad the republican option is. It's MUCH more likely that Chaffetz was told he was going to get primaried heavily and saved face.
"Look at this cake, most beautiful cake you've ever seen. Let 'em eat it, it'll be great, buh-LEEEEEVE ME"
(R) + Mormon? They love him. Same reason they love Mike Lee who whats to get rid of federal public lands. Same reason they love Hatch who ousted his predecessor on the platform of 'Senators should have term limits'.
Utah- the "It makes no sense" state. (Source, I live here, shit's crazy)
How many of those people are still absurdly rich and/or doing business still?
I won't be satisfied... until the feckless American electorate learns its lesson as to who you should trust to hold its highest office. I get the feeling American actually want things to suck.
Somehow they will both come out on top. They will be rewarded in some way for loyalty to Trump.
The reverse Midas touch: everything Trump touches turns into shit 💩
With an attitude like that you're certainly helping to normalize it.
It was reported last week by Louise Mensch that Chaffetz had been compromised, and I actually disregarded it when I saw it. But seeing him back off of re-election makes me think twice. I'm guessing he could get re-elected in his district if he tried. He waffled a lot on Trump after the Inside Edition Tape, and yet he was re-elected pretty easily. I think there's more to him not running again.
Nunes was part of fabricating intelligence to create a fake scandal (Susan Rice Unmasking), and Democrats and some Republicans are now saying there's nothing there. He's taking a lot of heat for this, as he should be. And it's bad optics, so he's out.
Both are cowards.
Why do you hate Romney? Out of all the republicans, he really doesnt seem to have much "grime" on him other than just being a rich mormon that doesnt really connect with the electorate at all.
It's surprising they have no integrity?
Honestly, after the recent election, I find it hard to joke about idiots running for President. Who knows what the fuck our fellow Americans will decide to do in the next election. I'm not sure i can rest easy during the 2020 election if we have any joke candidates running that year.
Don't worry, I believe another thread has been submitted on this. I saw this tweet before I saw the thread. And yeah, I hope he is scared.
I can't believe this is the top comment. These guys aren't stepping aside because of Trump's numbers or because they would have trouble winning elections.
They are stepping aside because it has come out that both were blatantly colluding with Trump and - directly or indirectly - with the Russians. Clearly the FBI and the congressional investigations are aware of their collusion.
Yea, that's the shocking thing about the GOP, is the complete lack of integrity among the entire party. In the face of an existential threat to our democracy, the GOP rather play partisan politics. I just feel if the roles were flipped, while democrats wouldn't be rushing to call for investigation, I think in the face of all the evidence that has come to light they would had long ago agreed to a select committee.
McCain and Graham, they may talk a big game, but so far they have done nothing to impede the progress of this Manchurian administration.
Many I know who voted for trump were voting for the disintegration of our system. Yes, some voters were (and are still) rooting for the system to suffer irreparable harm.
and then tries to dismantle the two term limit.
I'll be dead before I see that happen, and I imagine millions of Americans agree with me. That would be an open declaration of civil war by Trump and the GOP and we will organize a physical resistance if necessary.
This, absolutely. It's all I've seen the Republican party do, and I have no idea how anyone can fall for it. Even the slightest amount of research and critical thinking can debunk their platform and show them for the frauds that they are.
It really upsets me, and has me fearing for the future for this country.
Yeah, I mean, I understand a certain level of disagreement and animosity and even out right hostility in politics but I sort of felt that once a serious external threat (like a foreign entity trying to disrupt our entire democracy) that one of them, just one, would stand up and say 'Enough, I'll do my job now and take this seriously.' I guess not.
The GOP would have to be completely dismantled and conservatives will have to re-form a new, rebooted party grounded in old-school ideals with the evangelical and Tea Party hardliners excised like a tumor. I would greatly welcome this.
Unfortunately, assuming the Dems sweep back to power, they're going to have to hold independent panels for years. There's a very real danger we'd have a McCarthyist situation brewing on Capitol Hill.
Everyone thought a blue wave was going to hit Congress hard in 2016, with a Republican congress having blocked a Supreme Court nomination for almost a full year, threatening to axe Obamacare, and having a majority in Congress since the middle of Obama's first term.
I admire your optimism, but you shouldn't hold your breath.
Hah! Good to know he might offer his neck up on the political chopping block for his constituents to finally sever permanently.
Trump is dead. He is the least popular president of all time (at this stage in his presidency) and has the highest disapproval rating of all time. Everyone knows a blue wave is going to hit the house hard in 2018.
Trump can't even wrangle his own party to cut taxes for the rich, which is like their reason for existence.
Nope, only loves investigating Democrats
you underestimate how much of a short term memory people have.
And now here goes Mary McCord, acting Assistant Attorney General, the one who announced the arrests of Russian spies recently- https://theintercept.com/2017/04/19/key-official-in-trump-russia-investigation-will-step-down/
This is far worse.
I used to watch 24 and there was a point where Jack, in his investigation, found out that it was the president himself who was the antagonist committing treason behind the scenes. It was great popcorn material, but when this aired about ten years ago, nobody who watched it thought we'd be living that. Nobody. It was something you smirked at then suspended your disbelief and moved right on.
Those people are idiots with no understanding of history.
I'm smelling the ozone in the air before a thunderstorm...
I've always appreciated the sentiment behind Hanlon's Razor but I reject it's accuracy. Given that almost all bizarre behaviour is explained by stupidity, it allows the intelligently malicious to get away with an awful lot.
For example, the fact that apparently all of Trump's staff were colluding with Russian officials without his knowledge is adequately explained by stupidity. Maybe Trump was so stupid he didn't know that he was being groomed by other people. I rather doubt it.
They are both in serious legal trouble. Chaffetz is most likely going to resign midterm.
we don't have the likes of ...
This is the issue. No one GAF anymore. It's all about "I'm getting mine" and no real sense of honor, duty or truth. Very unfortunate.
Not seeking re-election to Congress also isn't the end of a politician's career, it's possible he wants to move to more local politics or just doing speaking engagements and endorsement. His career still has legs and he probably doesn't want to cut them off at the knees.
Weird... it's almost like... there's something they don't want their names attached to... huh
That was oddly specific ...
A Utah source now confirming that Chaffetz resignation expected as early as tomorrow.
The only thing that'll save Trump is that the spineless Republican majority will be willfully ignorant of the borderline treason that's occurred.
Yeah, unfortunately that's exactly the prediction I'm making, and why I'm saying it'll be 20 years before Comey's book tells the tale.
Certainly a Dem House or Senate in '18 would change things, but until then I just think Repubs are closing their eyes and ears to it.
Far as I'm concerned, it's already happened. At no other time in history would these guys not have already been in a public hearing under oath. Even the most biased American Republican on their couch realizes this.
But "forgetting" that they thought Benghazi was worth multiple investigations "because they said it was a video"....they wryly smile and expect their legislators to make this go away and start deporting brown people.
Flynn's attorney was talking about it, no one took it at the time and I haven't heard anything about him since. Honestly though the way they dropped Flynn like a hot potato might mean he's one of the biggest cogs in this machine and the FBI knows it.
Asking for immunity doesn't instantly mean someone is guilty but when the Projector in Chief himself is saying stuff like this I can't help but chuckle.
"AMMUNITY! And if you're not guilty of a crime, what do you need ammunity for, right? Have you ever seen anything so corrupt, in your life? Have you ever seen a greater embarrassment to our country?
He's just crazy enough. Perfect.
Unfortunately this is the thing. We vastly overestimate the American populace's ability to act in a reasonable manner so we keep assuming they'll see they're so obviously being swindled and shit on, but they won't.
I've been wondering about that Chaffetz kompromat claim myself. Like, what could it be? With Trump and some of the other nimrods in his administration, it's not hard to imagine, but with Chaffetz -- what, he touches kids? Gay on the down-low?
One wonders if his 18-day shift from "I couldn't look my daughter in the eye" to "Trump for President!" entailed some unexpected visit by a Russian spy in the interim.
Well that draws the plan into focus; Utah Governor from 2020-2028 and then a run at the presidency.
I can only assume and hope that the people of Utah are not so stupid as to allow this completely untrustworthy rodent to win the Utah Republican primary in 2020.
I would also point out Bush Jr.'s second term. In 2004 many people thought that "anyone but Bush" was a winning strategy for the Democrats. And then they went and found John Kerry to prove everyone wrong. Hell, the primary requirement for beating Trump should have been a pulse; but, Hillary did a spectacular job of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
That's what Nunes was going on about that night he bailed on his uber and ran for the WhiteHouse.
Is this a huge scandal, or just the new normal?
It's the first. They'd like you to think it's the second - so you just go about your life and tune out all the "evidence" and "documents" and "collusion" and such. Desensitize you to the whole thing, then you won't care enough to do anything about it.
Make no mistake though, it's a scandal. Problem is, people have a shorter attention span than they did 40yrs ago, and to get to the bottom of a scandal takes time [Watergate took years, and we're only ~100 days into this]. Rushing an investigation just compromises the case when it goes before a judge. It's going to take time, possibly a long time, to get everything together and make an airtight case. The FBI has called in dozens of field agents from all over the country to work on this, so they're not taking it lightly. I suspect there will be a lot more to come; we're not even close to the cliffs edge yet. As more people are caught up in this, some will turn, and we'll hear how deep this rabbit hole goes.
the Shite-us touch.
Democrats break ranks more easily, which is super inconvenient when trying to pass a bill, but the correct thing to do when your presidential candidate is committing treason
real laws need to be put in place for it to never happen again
By "never happen again" you mean "until the laws are repealed". E.g., see Glass-Steagall.
I hate to say it, but I think a lot of American's do. I have heard many conservatives at least, openly call for war. It would allow them to change America to .... something else.... if they win.
Now Chaffetz might not even finish his term: https://twitter.com/kslnewsradio/status/855074319155724288
He's way too talented to play Trump... You'll need to go more mediocre.
Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.
Hopefully the Mercer and Devos/Prince clans are prosecuted as well.
---This is the sort of comment you need to read as fun/not rooted in deep belief, but---
Last Friday the part of twitter that is piranha feasting on the Russian issue reported that Chaffetz was being blackmailed by the Russians to hold up the Trump investigation. They also said the FBI knew this.
You have to keep these guys at a distance, but I tell you, for them to claim they got that on Friday from an anonymous source, and for Chaffetz to make an out of the blue move that surprised everyone yesterday, it's damned interesting.
Makes you wonder, are they looking for patterns and reasoning that aren't there, or are we? My belief is Chaffetz wants the Governorship and that after the Tuesday election the GOP is closing up house, forcing their members to define what exactly their 2018 plans are. The don't want any more multi-candidate races and need to know their battleground districts as soon as they can. But that's just as speculative as assuming Chaffetz is afraid of losing a race to a woman.
Yeah I keep seeing people say the same thing but they don't realize that Chafetz won 73-26 just last fall and his district is very religious (Mormon) and definitely not voting Democrat under any circumstances. No amount of money given to his competition would change that.
I've been partial to The Red Election myself.
I kind of think another civil war is what they want
"Wow, being in government is awesome! Now we can do what we wa.....wait, what? Russians? Treason? No. No, no, no, screw you guys, I'm going home."
I think that number comes from a study. Its a general rule, so people can vary, and kinda surprising. Probably what happens is as people make more they overextend their debts and get more stressed, or buy stupid crap like fancy cars or trips to disney that ultimately does nothing to make them happier.
edit: Here's one of the articles on it: https://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/
Points: 1. It's seven years old. 2. Definitely cost of living needs to be adjusted. 3. Apparently only refers to day-to-day "happiness" versus overall life satisfaction which can still go up with income. So... maybe not that stunning in the end.
At some point a day comes when you realize that even though you occupy the right office to do your bit to delay the inevitable, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable...and you're not even particularly good at delaying it, either--you're just there, the guy in the role, no more no less.
Love your whole comment, but I'm going to politely disagree w/ the $70k per year part. I make just over that, and believe you me, I'd be THRILLED with making more. Wife, kids, mortgage, and car payment eats the hell out of 70k a year.
"Doesn't look like anything to me."
And all too sadly, personal lust for power and greed will win out and nothing will happen. I genuinely would not be shocked if Trump wins re election, and then tries to dismantle the two term limit.
Even people with the best memories can't keep track of all the shit that's been going on.
Yes, Chaffez district is a shit show, they roped in Cottonwood Heights which leans fairly liberal and took Cliven Bundy country. SLC is split into 4 in order to keep Utah red.
No, they could have stood up and done the right thing.