I would much rather watch Gandalf vs. Dumbledore than Batman vs. Superman.

I would much rather watch Gandalf vs. Dumbledore than Batman vs. Superman.

They'd just get stoned and make up words

The White Wizard and the Dark Knight sounds like an epic combo definitely

I think Gandalf and Batman vs. Superman and Dumbledore would make a nice tag team fight

What about James Bond vs Jason Bourne or red whacky inflatable arm flailing tube man vs blue whacky inflatable arm flailing tube man?

I'm just waiting for Dumbledore vs Grindelwald...

We all know Gandalf would win

It really depends on who's universe's rules dictate the battle.

If HP rules apply to both of their magic, Gandalf wins hands down. He's basically an angel in LOTR.

If LOTR rules apply to both, it'd probably come down to a fist fight in which I think Gandalf would still win as he seems the more physically apt fighter.

If they wash retained the rules from their own universe separately, Dumbledoor would mop the floor with Gandalf as Gandalf powers are restricted while Dumbledoor's are not.

Edit: angle->angel.

Edit 2: something that I just thought of, does anybody know if Gandalf was able to defeat the balrog because it was the balrog, or because it was directly interfering with man?

We see Gandalf get his shit stomped by Sauromon(sp) almost uncontestedly. He barely makes it out alive. I'm wondering if, since he wasn't directly interfering with man, if Gandalf was still stunted in his abilities?

Leads me to believe that if Dumbledoor meant no harm to the party, Gandalf would still be stunted in strength, giving a huge advantage to Dumbledoor.

Edit 3: I've enjoyed all the discussion going on below. Been a blast :)

If you haven't, check out /sub/whowouldwin

Tons of stuff like this there.

But, me personally, I would score this battle something like this:

w/HP rules: Gandalf 10/10. He loses the Miair holding him back and becomes stronger than anything we know to exist in the Harry Potter universe.

w/LOTR rules: I'm going to give this to Dumbledore 7/10 times. I feel his variety of magic is much more effective. Sure Gandalf has Glamdring and his own staff, but I feel that, being restricted by the Miair, Gandalf's magical ability isn't up to par with Dumbledore's barrage of spells.

Evenly matched: let's say Gandalf is held back by the Miair and Dumbledore is sporting Marvalo Guant's ring, I give this to Gandalf 8/10 times. With the handicap, I think both wizards are equally matched in terms of magic. This is where their secondary weapons come in. Being a Gryffindor, Dumbledore has access to The Sword of Gryffindor whenever he needs it. This is a super powerful sword, on par with the more powerful weapons of LOTR lore. Gandalf has Glamdring which, in all honesty, doesn't really gain any advantage from its abilities here. Regardless, this still goes to Gandalf for being the far superior swordsman.

Overall: In the end, I would put Gandalf as being victorious 7.5-8/10. His mastery of the sword outclasses anything when we look at both characters as equally powered in terms of overall strength.


He's basically an angle in LOTR.

Damn, I gotta brush up on my LOTR lore game.

What kind of angle? Acute , right, obtuse or reflex?

Also, The Man of Steel and The Man with the Steel Hair

You're a Kryptonian, Harry.


I gotchu

Or maybe Magneto+Gandalf vs Saruman+Count Dooku

More powerful than other wands =/= infinitely powerful. The entire plot point around the Elder Wand was that you could defeat the one who wielded it.

Fist fight ?

Gandalf has Glamdring and Dumbledore would maybe summon that pussy ass sword of gryfindor.

Gandalf still wins.

I haven't seen fantastic beasts but after the 7th book I imagined their duel more as a conversation between them late at night in a couple of easy chairs. Where Dumbledore persuades Grindelwald that what he is doing is evil.

Edit to explain: Dumbledore says several times in the books that love is the most powerful magic of all. What if he used the Love between them to win the ideological battle between them? Maybe that is where he learned that Love can conquer all, even an unbeatable wand. An act like that might make some one worthy to posses and to hold the meanest of the Hallows.

What kind of angle?


John Wick over Bond and Bourne! Place your bets!

Gandalf is LotR's version of an angel. There's a pretty fair chance that Avada Kedavra wouldn't even work on him.

This Kryptonite arrow is pointy.

Gandalf would totally destroy Dumbledore

Dumbledore vs The Board of Education

Doesn't matter when Gandalf is the vastly more skilled swordsman and chops dumbledore in half on the second stroke

He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. ''Saruman, your staff is broken.'' There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet. - The Voice of Saruman

I think Gandalf's disarming ability is a bit bolder than the HP version.

Batman is the ultimate justice boner. It's the ultimate "bootstraps" fantasy, where a boy with nothing more than billions of dollars and a sense of impotent rage could, without any repercussions whatsoever, beat the ever living shit out of impoverished mentally ill people cluttering up "his city".

"Death makes you die. It makes my brights brighter." - Gandalf in epic rap battle.

Actually, magic is one of Superman's major weaknesses.

pussy ass sword of gryfindor

You mean the one that can inflict poison damage from basilisk venom? Along with who knows what other substances that it's come into contact with in the last 1,000 years?

I completely forgot their weapons but that only helped Gandalf. As far as I can tell, the only properties Glamdring are ones shared by any other chunk of metal.

His powers are nerfed so he can't directly have massive influence in Middle Earth. As Dumbledore is not Sauron nor has any affiliation with Sauron Gandalf can definitely go full power in LotR rules.

I'm assuming the specific thing he's talking about is that in LOTR, Gandalf is apparently unable to fully unleash his powers in Middle Earth. He's apparently ridiculously powerful, to the point that Dumbledore would have no chance at all if he went all out.

This is the story about how the Boy Who Lived died.

As far as I can tell, the only properties Glamdring are ones shared by any other chunk of metal.

You're kidding, right? Glamdring is a millennia-old elvish sword that can pierce balrog flesh -- and balrogs are essentially giant demons/fallen angels. It even glows when goblins are near.

Grinderwald, I've come to bargain.

Wick. He is chosen one

Gandalf will probably insist on fighting with a sword and not use the magic that he knows, like he does in every other fight

"You! shall! not! pa..." "Avada Kedavra"

So how does Gandalf win exactly?

I mean... I know from a hipster perspective we'd all love Gandalf to win. But I'm not sure how he can compete with the instant death spell, instant stun spell, well the whole range of instant spells that can be unlimitedly used in Potterverse for immobilising or killing people.

First problem, you're basing this off the movie. Gandalf admitted to not having a 100% airtight plan, and didn't constantly lie to/withold massive brainfucks from Frodo unlike Dumbledore. He took on an ancient demon who was almost as old as Sauron, and you brush it off as "levelling up" this wasn't some game, he was prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice to save the Fellowship. He could not have flown Frodo into Mordor, as the Eagles had some limits, and Sauron would have seen them from miles away and got the Nâzgul to fly over and attack them. Oh yeah, Gandalf was, in layman's terms, an angel, literally on the same level as Sauron, with a couple limitations, not a talented, aged wizard.

Gandalf has battle experience with his sword and easily the reach advantage too.

The advantage of Glamdring is it's size.

Don't know if dumbledore has ever been stated to have that kind of experience.

Who is Samantha Stevens?

Doctor who?

I would rather watch red whacky inflatable arm flailing tube man vs blue whacky inflatable arm flailing tube man than Batman V Superman

Perfect moment for Epic Rap Battles of History, they've done this exact battle

In a conversation Grinderwald setup, possibly to confront him about his sister and drive him to madness, possibly to convince him to join forces again.

Did one of them kill Neo's dog?

This is correct. The wizards were only restricted from using their full strength in confrontation with Sauron. See Gandalf vs. Balrog for more details.

Remind me who played Magneto and Gandalf?

And yet the wand changes owners when the owner is beaten in a duel.

Gandalf is basically an angel.

This cootle is so dring...

Well it's magic so he'd be Chris Angle

Gandalf could hold himself in a 1v1 with master swordsmen, it would be a pretty weird thing to give Dumbledore that kind of skill...

You are a man of unquestionable good. Bargaining is beneath you. It is in you to do the good before you, without compromise. Why then compromise on the greater good? Muggles are living in a dark world unlite by magic. We are driven to the darkest corners of a dark world without even the opportunity to share our powers with those who could benefit from them most. You can change that! We can change that! Together, as we once were. As we once were, my dear, dear old friend. Join me. Please.

Gandalf dies and comes back more powerful. Dumbledore dies. Pretty easy to see who'd win

Gandalf isn't allowed to use his full powers openly against Sauron or his forces. It wouldn't be fair. That's why he has to chum around with the regular fantasy dudes. Gandalf wrecks Dumbledore in just raw power.

You clearly don't know anything about Gandalf, what he is, or just the whole lore of middle earth.

What about Gandalf vs Dumbledore vs Magneto

I see you've copy and pasted your comment. 

However, this one still says Gandalf is an angle.

I see you've copy and pasted your comment.

However, .

Gandalf vs Dumbledore. Epic Rap Battles of History #11 [2:10]

Nice Peter in Music

50,902,993 views since Jul 2011

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Meh, Gandalf is basically an immortal super-being. Dumbledore is just a guy who knows some magic spells.

They'd probably just make out, soon turning into gay wizard porn.

Don't think you fully comprehend what Gandalf actually is. Dumbledore is mortal, Gandalf is not.

I'd like to see Hermione vs. Samantha Stevens.

I'd rather watch Jason Bourne flailing around trying to have a fist fight with either wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tub man.

Gandolf was also caught unaware, and was still at the "power restriction" of a gray as opposed to a white.

If you're going to pick and chose the "hamstrung" version of one or the other to fight, or work off of plot armor..

Then let's go with Gandalf the White vs prenatal Dumbeldore.

I like screw attacks methods for dealing with these things: Both heroes at their peak, their default gear, and moral restrictions removed: IE: heroes that don't kill, will kill because otherwise this conversation is pointless.

And just because one hero would most definitely kill another hero (IE: Superman vs majority of fictional people) doesn't mean they're "better" so fans shouldn't take things personally.

Dumbeldore vs Gandalf only seems like a good matchup from the outside.... Once you dig into it... They're not really on the same playing field, Gandalf being an immortal divine being and all.

Dumbeldore vs Merlin would make more sense.

In all seriousness, you don't seem to understand how powerful Gandalf really is.

Wait, Patrick Bateman?

I'd like to see John Constantine vs. The Doctor.

superman vs everything and superman still wins, so what's the point?

Fighting to allow black magic into schools.

And then ressurected. And got a spin off comic in which he went from magician to special agent.

Superman is just a really old school hero. Been around for ages. Over time people started liking some edge to their heroes. Super man is Mr. Perfect, which is pretty boring now.

Why are there two different John Wick references in this thread. Am I missing something here

And Dumbledore has an infinitely powerful wand given to him by Death. There's no angel blocking that.

He's the most badass, I don't understand the appeal of superman to be honest.

the '90s cartoon

I'll give this a fair go. I'm not a huge fan or anything, but he's one of my favourite of the 'super'heroes for the following reasons:

He doesn't have actual super powers. Sure he's ridiculously rich and a genius, but people can imagine them being like Batman themselves as opposed to an alien like Superman, or being bitten by a magic spider. Coupled with this is that he often uses his brains as opposed to special powers to defeat his enemies.

He's just cool. All in black, husky voice, cool gadgets, and more importantly: cool car.

He can go after criminals that the authorities can't catch. People love a good vigilante story, and Batman is basically the ultimate vigilante.

The atmosphere of most iterations of Batman is a lot different than most superhero stories. Gotham isn't like Metropolis, or whatever other place superheroes usually live in. From the buildings to the cars, there's a sort of retro feel to everything, at least in , which always appealed to me.

Magic costs money.

But we all know - it's even explicitly stated in the books - that Dumbledore is willing to use spells much more effective and possibly worse than death.

Well shit.....

We are past Dumbledore using magic and just discussing martial prowess in this part of the thread

That wasn't a duel, Dumbledore didn't even want to fight Malfoy.

I believe it's tragic when a young girl farts

I believe in magic, in a young girls heart.

Hermione would just use a love potion and seduce her. Add Barbara Eden from I dream of genie and you have the hottest magical menage a trois ever, if Hermione could go back in time 40 years

Dumbledore was human... Gandalf was a superior species. Game over.

Harry Potter rules dicate that you generally require a wand

They lost certainly do not. Dumbledoor is one of the prime examples and earliest seen in the books of wandless magic.

The angel status is what I base his power level on. We never see Gandalfs full power as far as I'm aware but I assume it is worlds away from even the above average wizard in HP.

And Dumbledoor may have surprising strength but I feel like Gandalf is even more apt as he has seen hand to hand combat in actual war. Like, Calvary charging war lol.

Dumbledore can't use avada kedavra since hes a pussy. Gandalf wins — his stick is bigger.

The "bloody history" of the wand is that almost all of it's owners were killed in their sleep or while they were unaware because of the power they flaunted. There is even a pointed tone during the time it is mentioned that Dumbledore bested Grindlewald that hints he may not have beaten him via duel.

If I was immortal and had to wrestle Dwayne the rock Johnson to death for the right to be the toughest wrestler on earth I still would not win. All that would happen is that I'd keep coming round getting killed by him over again and over again whilst he laughed at me.

Eventually he'd die once he was like 94 and I finally take him down. Sure I'd technically win eventually but noone would be impressed.

Gandalf the Gray is approximately as powerful as the Balrog, which is really just a corrupted Maiar (same "caste" of angel as Gandalf), so it makes sense they would be about even. Gandalf the White is about on par with the Witch-King of Angmar until it looks like all hope is lost at the Battle of Pelennor Fields and Sauron's perceived triumph shifts the balance in favor of his forces. "Morale" has a big effect on the strength of the various players in LotR e.g. Songs of the elves leave you feeling refreshed and fulfilled, even if you can't remember the night you spent with them that well, Gandalf overtaking the Balrog in its own domain (another aspect of a being's power in LotR: see Bombadil), among other things. The "battle" between Gandalf and the Balrog isn't only the Balrog roaring and cracking his whip, followed by Gandalf yelling and breaking the bridge. Gandalf's "essence" (maybe aura is a better word?) is fighting the Balrog's from the moment it reveals itself. Evil beings of great power tend to lose their abilities of disguise in LotR, so they look giant and twisted and corrupted because it reflects their mindset. Good beings, like Gandalf, can appear however they want, but you're only getting close to their true form when they reveal their strength. An example is Gandalf driving the Nazgûl back from the fields of Pelennor or charging into Helm's Deep. That bright light that rises around him is essentially him calling on the light and life of Arda (the source of his power) to rise and fight the armies of Mordor.

Also, I would think that the best comparison to a dragon in Harry Potter from the LotR universe would be a really stupid...dragon? Even that's a tough sell, because dragons in HP are reasonably intelligent but otherwise feral animals. In LotR both the dragons and the Balrog are sentient and highly intelligent.

You haven't triggered anyone, you just don't know enough about the lotr universe

Son of a bitch -_-

To quote a post I saw a very long time ago, and to silence all of you Dumbledore fans who think he would win. Disclaimer: This is not my writing.

Gandalf Vs Dumbledore

Lemme break it down for you. Dumbledore is pretty sweet. he runs a school where all sorts of crazy shit goes down. He has a bird that spontaneously com-busts and a pretty sweet office. Oh and he dies helping to save the world. No doubting: Dumbledore is pretty bad ass.

But then there's Gandalf

First, he finds the root of all evil, and lays out a plan to save the world. When he gets shit on by his buddy Saruman, he escapes by TALKING TO A MOTH, so that the moth can go get his buddy A GIANT FUCKING EAGLE to fly him off the roof of Saruman's tower. Then he hooks back up with Frodo and the gang. But wait, HE DIES. It is important to note however that he dies FIGHTING A GIANT FLAME DAEMON with a MOTHERFUCKING WHIP. Now, normally, dying would be a problem for most people.


Gandalf just shrugs it off LIKE A BOSS and comes back to finish what he started. He also decided to update his wardrobe with some pimpin' white robes. Now fully pimped out, he tells everybody the plan then dips for a minute to handle some shit elsewhere, cause that's how Gandalf motherfucking rolls.

Then right when shit starts hitting the fan at Helm's Deep, he shows up WITH A GIANT FUCKING ARMY. Oh, and did I mention he shows up on the KING OF HORSES....RIDING BAREBACK?!?! So, not only does Gandalf have figurative balls of steel, he undoubtedly has ACTUAL BALLS OF STEEL.

Finally, after cleaning shit up at Minas Tirith, he peaces out and lets all the hobbits and humans enjoy a world PURGED OF ALL EVIL.

So, to recap,

Dumbledore: mentors the younger generation, sacrifices his live for the greater good.

Gandalf: Talks to animals, gives death the middle finger, constantly saves everybody else's ass, and then when it's all said and done, just leaves everyone else with all the spoils of war.

Gandalf WINS.

Are you serious? You can't enjoy one thing because there is another thing?

I'm not bent out of shape mate, you might projecting here.

I like both Harry Potter and lotr and feel no need to argue over what's the better story, because that is fucking pathetic.


What are these rules you talk about?

That actually makes the fight much less interesting. Gandalf was proven multiple times to be a more-than-capable melee fighter, even standing 1v1 against master swordsmen.

I like Dumbledore more overall but in a non-magic fight, Gandy would rek him.

It isn't that Gandalf isn't willing to use magic, he literally can't unless something is interfering with man that they are powerless against themselves. In terms of actual power, Gandalf is far and a way more powerful than any wizard to have ever lived in HP.

As far as usability, I think Dumbledoor is the "all-terrain" wizard in this case. He's not held back by any means and can go full power out of the gate.

Problem with that is the Balrog in Moria was one of the original dozen or so Balrogs that were the right-hand demons of the guy who taught Sauron the dark lord business. If we're talking power scales, a particularly nasty dragon would be Smaug who got narked by a well-informed archer. The Balrog is literally some world-ending evil kind of shit, and Gandalf beat it.

In a 1v1, Dumbledore would likely have been a decent match with the Witch King - who was originally a mortal sorcerer. But if Gandalf had permission from Angels Inc. to cut loose he could've won the whole war by himself.

Are you implying that Kurt Angle is not magical?

So by your definition..you win.

Not against magic. He's still completely vulnerable to Gandalf and Dumbledore