I just told my parents that I'm not a muslim and it was my worst decision ever.
I'm a 19 year old Egyptian guy living in the Netherlands, I've been raised a muslim, but all hell broke loose when I told my parents last night that I am in fact a non-believer. I am an open person respecting all people who make the choice to pursue their faiths, but boy would I lie to y'all if I told you I don't hate religion with a burning passion. It destroyed my life and it seems like it will keep on destroying the rest of my life
I've started to realise I might not have been a religious person by the time I was 12 and started lying to my parents about whether I would have prayed or not. While fasting I would sneakily eat some snacks when my parents were not watching and everytime they told me to read a little of the Quran I would act like I did and play video games in my room. I've always hated the rules and traditions of this religion and the moment I realised that I was living a lie (even though I was young) was the moment I started to realise that I am not a muslim. In fact I didn't believe jack about the things I've learned about this religion. The things I read in the Quran, the things my whole family have been feeding me, the things my Imams said to me, the things they were saying on television...
I knew this was a secret and I just had to take this secret to my grave, but it got harder to keep it a secret as I grew older. I must have been 15/16 when I really started to become a teenager. I got into smoking weed and drink alcohol from time to time. These were the things that I truly enjoyed, I didnt care about the fact that my parents would never be okay with that, I am a man that just does whatever he pleases and no one can restrict me. As time passed by my parents started to realise that I am not that holy. From time to time they would find things like lighters, rolling papers, condoms etc in my room and I always just took a scolding followed up by some promises that I would never do it again. But this week I got caught with the worst of all things. A bottle of whiskey. God that was so dumb to even bring into my house but all right they found it, I knew they found it because it wasnt in the place I hid it in. Along the whiskey, a joint and a condom.
Yesterday I heard my parents arguing about me and shortly after that my father wanted to take me for a drive. I got in the car and my father brought me to the mosque and we'd start praying (me pretending to pray of course) and after that at 9 PM he brought me to his store a few miles away to have a talk with me. The whole 30 minutes drive was awkward as fuck and we didnt say shit to each other, I just knew I was fucked. We went to this room and he told me to wait. I waited for what seemed like forever and eventually my dad came to me with a box. He emptied te box on the table and the box contained all the "bad" things they found. Condoms, rolling papers, that stupid bottle of whisky and many more things. That was the moment I knew I just had to tell him. I've been living a lie all my life and I dont want the lies to eat me up. "Why is my son like this" he asked. He started pointing at a joint "Of course you would tell me that this is from one friend" and then he pointed to the bottle of whiskey saying "and that one over there is from your other friend. But I know it is a lie. Your mother wants to believe it but I simply can't. Tell me... why is my son like this?".
I told him the reason why it didnt matter to me that I did bad "bad things". I started telling him everything, about how I am not religious and I don't believe in god, never did. How I just always acted like I did in order not to break the hearts of my parents. I told him there was no saving me and I stood by my choice, I know no one will make me believe in a god, its just the way I was. He was shocked, he asked me "and what now...". To which I replied "well of course having said that, I know you will never accept this. Thats why I kept it a secret all my life and I see no other choice than us to part ways since no atheist could be living in the house of a religious family". He said that I took the words out of his mouth. But it was stupid, I am stupid. I just thought this was a way of freeing some load, but it was way worse than that and I realised that as the discussion proceeded with my dad. I am stupid because I have no back up plan, and I never did think of a back up plan. I recently became un employed, college is not going wel and I have 300 euros saved up. Enough to bring me exactly no where. Anyway back to the story, after I told him everything he told me that he was a failure as a dad and that I am his failure, he said to me that he will tell everyone in the future that he has just 3 kids instead of 4. And I accepted all that, I always kinda hated my father anyway. However that was not it... I had to tell my mother and brothers. 30 minutes went by, we were back home and my father just gathered everyone around a table and told me to tell everyone my little secret. I told them...
The talk I had with my father was mild, he kept saying mean things to me but I didnt care. But as soon as I told my family, lets just say they reacted bad, really really bad. I could shoot myself in the head and they probably wouldnt have cried as much. My oldest brother, the one I talk to once every month even though we share a room, just went to our room and started crying and destroying stuff. My mother was devestaded, I tried to calm her down but she didnt want me to touch her. My sweet mother, the mother that has been so loving to me. That was the first time I saw her look of disgust. She hates me now. She told me that she will not leave me, that she will bring me to Mecca and bring me to the best imams in the world and all that stuff, but I just told her that that wouldn't work out. My father just brought me family pictures and a scissor and told me to start cutting. They all hate me, I brought sadness to this family and it will take a long time to heal. My parents gave me an ultimatum and I have till tonight to decide. Either I try to get religious or I can never show my face again. I will never be able to call my mom asking her how she's been, and I will never be able to see my brothers again. One of the 4 being my best friend but he has down syndrome so it will be hard to keep touch with him. I just regret my choice to come clean, I really do... I whish I could have taken this secret to my grave. Yesterday was litteraly my worst day ever. I just dont know what to do, I cant make this choice, fuck this choice.
I am very not okay at the moment but I just wanted to share my story and it felt good to type it out. English is not my native language so I am really sorry if I hurt your brains.
Edit: Thank you all for your great advices, I really appreciate it! This is what I needed to keep me strong
EDIT2: Wow guys, this blew up. I have a lot of messages to read, and after that I'll let you know what I will do. I appreciate all of you motherfuckers and you are so great. Many many many want to financially aid me, that's really kind of you guys I appreciate it but you guys really don't have to. I love you all <3<3<3 I will try to reply to as many replies as I can
Edit 3: I have no ways to describe how thankful I am to you guys. If anyone wants to talk to me about relatable experiences you can always message me. And even if you just want to have someone to talk to about anything else, you can message me. From today on you are all my friends <3 Many people have been skeptical about this story so I linked my facebook to a mod.
Edit 4/Update: About my situation right now, I still am locked up in my room and haven't seen my father since yesterday. I told my mother that I'll need some time to think about what I am going to do so she is giving me a little time. My father probably isnt okay with that but we'll see tomorrow, he didnt knock on my door yet so I have not been thrown out of the house yet. I am pretty sure I will move out but I dont know if I'll do it now or when I have a stable income but that means that I will have to lie a little longer. Ill keep you guys up to date. I have a lot of schoolwork to do tomorrow so it will take a while for me to reply to all your replies, but I surely will!
Edit 5: I feel like I need to clarify a few things: First of all I didnt use atheism as an excuse to do bad things, my father asked me if I was okay with disrespecting Allah and Islam and my Atheism was the only reason I could think of. I truly am a believer of the evolution theory and believe there are no greater beings, just us. I used to smoke a lot of pot but now its just once in a while so I calmed down a little, might quit for good after some very good advice. I also only drink on special occasions and the whiskey was the only time I brought alcohol in our house. I agree to a lot of people that I should have never taken these things into this religious home and that I should have respected the house rules. What I actually meant with school is going bad is that I have a lot of work to do and I just cant keep my head straight and cant concentrate at all for the time being, I am not failing school just yet. I became unemployed litteraly 1 week ago and I left myself, it was not like I was planning on staying that way. (I say this mainly to the people calling me a loser) Thanks for the donations, I still feel like I cant accept it so I'll just promise that I'll return every dime of it if things work out fine with my family. And even if I move out, I'll return the money once I am doing fine again
Also I removed the part where I said fuck Islam, I am mad about what the religion did to me, but a lot of Muslims on here were really helpful to me and I am so sorry I disrespected your religion by saying those words :(
What kind of God would accept the way your family treated you? That's what always gets to me when I read stories like yours.
Your mother and father should provide love without qualifications.
Good luck OP. Keep your head up, and keep moving forward.
Edit: Just needed to add this. Look at all the love you received when you reached out looking for guidance. As of this edit, more than 1500 individuals came to show you compassion, through upvotes and comments, proving to you that you are truly not alone.
Edit 2: 10,000 compassionate individuals. Take this love and spread it.
Like many who replied and commented, I have found myself too often despairing over the vitriol in our current collective experience.
THIS gives me hope.
Perhaps you "came out" a little too soon without a plan but what's done is done. You live in the Netherlands, you're surrounded by atheists who, like you, are not fans of religion so you're not alone. Also, I can imagine you're not the only "fake believer", there are probably a ton of (young) people faking it to avoid conflict. I'm 39 and I still hear complaining from my Christian parents for not wanting to attend church even on Christmas, but I've stood my ground long enough that they don't bother trying to convince me anymore.
Your family should stand by your lack of belief and they won't. They're the ones with the problem.
They strongly believe that their faith comes before their family. Now they think that they are the sinners for having not done a job proper as a parent. It really sucks :/
Also, DO NOT GO TO ANY MUSLIM COUNTRIES WITH THEM. DO NOT GO TO MECCA. Atheists can be jailed and killed there.
I feel for you bro, and heed my warning here. Watch yourself. I've had a few experiences with other atheists who were previously Muslim coming out to their family. Be careful for the next few years. You may not think your family capable of doing you harm, however they may snap. Religious people, doesn't really matter what religion, may harm or even kill family members who abandon their "faith".
So be cautious and careful moving through life, and try to find yourself a safe haven.
'Proper job as a parent' in this context sounds a lot like trying to program a robot.
Damn man, I feel for yea. I can't imagine what it's like to choose between yourself and your family. But it sounds like your family will never change their ways, and unless you want to fake being into Islam for the rest of your life, I see no other option but to head out and begin your life on your own. To me, I can't see how your family would cut you out forever, and I hope they, maybe just your brothers, or your mom, or someone will eventually come around and accept you, but it sounds like they are fully committed, and don't see any other option in life besides their never wavering belief. That's my advice man, I hope it helped a little. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle now, and if you try and fake it, they will likely be watching your every move, because they now know you have been lying. I say cut, run, and begin your life on your own. Hope that one day your family will come around, but also be prepared for the worst case scenario: that you are now on your own. Well, except for us, we are here for you brother.
What in tarnation?
Everyone is offering this guy support and he needs it. I think he went about this the wrong way, everything came to a head over alcohol, pot and sex. I think the coming out as an atheist was just the push over the cliff. What could have been a conversation with his father about the consequences of his actions turned into the reasons why his own rebelling is okay.
Good on him for being honest with himself but there was probably a better time to "out" himself.
My father just brought me family pictures and a scissor and told me to start cutting
That is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard, I can't believe anyone with a brain would do that to their own family.
The only organisation in the Netherlands I can think of that at least occasionally deals with young adults who are (at risk of being) made homeless is the COC, they might be able to help you if feel like living with your parents is being made impossible, or you could ask /sub/thenetherlands if they know a better organisation that can help you.
I wish you well and good luck with whatever decision you make.
I have friends who are Mormon, and faced a similar situation: Stay in the church, go to University in Utah, get married, have kids, and you get to stay in the family. If not, you are out of the family. Two different friends had this choice, one decided on getting married. He has three kids, and is fucking miserable. He's not allowed to do anything. No alcohol, no friends who are not in the church, and a very limited diet. He was able to come camping with us once, and was excited because he got to drink a 6 pack of Vanilla Coke. He's 28. My other friend, decided against the church and left and went off on his own. His family disowned him, but within a few months his mom begged him to come back, and now he has a great relationship with them, and he's not forced to participate in the religion. I know his situation is different from yours, but it is possible. If you are forced to stay in your religion just so you can be around your family, what kind of life is that for you? Would you truly be happy? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.
Don't beat yourself up. It just happened. It's easy for these guys to be judgmental, but they weren't in the same position you were in. Who knows what they would have done.
If the mods can verify this, can we not start a GoFundMe? If religion divides families and puts a 19 year old on the street, I'm sure humans as social beings can help bridge the gap without being related or theist or otherwise.
I agree with you. It was very stupid
That bit about having only 3 kids is especially frightening. I don't want op to be an honor killing victim.
There is absolutely no way to pretend like that would be safe for you to do. If you need to, contact your government and demand asylum to prevent it.
When I came out as atheist to my Christian parents after pretending to be religious for 5 years, my father threatened to kill me, saying that he would rather I die now than "live a life of sin." My mother chased me with a knife until I slammed and barred the door in the attic and called the police.
They are not who I consider my family. Blood makes you related, loyalty makes you family. Anyone so deep into religion and who rejects you is poisonous to you. It doesnt matter how broke you are, there is no security worth your sanity and freedom. Give me liberty or give me death.
Things will get better. You should leave now and find an atheist friend who is willing to take you in immediately. Apply for scholarships with your story, contact atheist groups or Freedom From Religion for help. Your country's version of child protective services can also help. Also ensure you find a library with access to a computer so that you do not get cut off from the internet.
Religion, not even once.
After starting my career as a software engineer, i was sitting in on a meeting where all of the senior level guys were designing the architecture of this new system we were about to start working on. Being new as inexperienced, i didn't have much to contribute by comparison, so i took notes asasked questions and tried to learn. But by the end of it, i was unsettled by how often i thought about how systematically logical as planned out my childhood had been, growing up in a super religious household.
There are definitely a lot of parallels to designing a deterministic system and raising a religious child. It all comes down to inputs as outputs.
Wow. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine disowning any of my children just because they choose a different path than me. I'm atheist but if either of my kids choose a belief system that is mono or poly theistic... well that's their choice. (I may tease them ... lol... but that's our relationship). I'll still love them.
I won't pretend to be able to solve your problem but right now you need someone supportive who can help in the moment. Do you have a safe friend or family member you can stay with, even temporarily, while you take some time for yourself, father your thoughts and figure out what to do next?
OP, You are very welcome at /sub/exmormon. There's also a /sub/exmuslim you might want to crosspost to. There are soooo many parallels between these fundamentalist, controlling religions. I lost most of my friends and relationships were very strained with my Mormon family after my husband and I told them we no longer believed. They asked us if we were sinning or who had offended us... they couldn't imagine it might not be true. Sorry, man. Living authentically is hard but has been worth it for us. The last 3-4 years have been very toUgh but life is getting better. Find som one to talk to in real life, a therapist or other professional, if you can.
Sure. But, they didn't talk to him, they threw psychological decompensation tantrums.
You are a great parent for that. I can stay at my best friend for 14 days but after that she'll be moving back in to her family. Might be enough time though. Thank you for your comment
American southern middle west.
And this one does not.
I realize that is how I came across. Atheism aside, pot alcohol and sex are good reasons for a parent to want to talk to a kid.
This. Definitely ask /sub/thenetherlands and hopefully someone should be able to help you out or point you in the right direction.
Any god that would require faith before family is not a god to be worshiped. (obviously)
My family was torn apart by the same belief (though in a Christian context). My mother wanted to change churches- within the same religion, mind you- due to some drama at my parents' church. My father left her, saying that he had to put god before his family.
He ended up in prison for child pornography.
You didn't bring sadness upon your family. You told them the truth and they reacted like fucking children. You don't make people do things. Everyone has a choice over the reactions they have to others. You're responsible for your actions alone. You didn't hurt anyone by living your life as you saw fit. They just acted like you did to make you feel guilty. That's what religion does.
If they want to cut all ties with you for some stupid reason like that, then they aren't worth spending time with anyway. You didn't do this. They chose to not associate with their family member for a stupid petty reason.
From one of the top on /sub/exmuslim. This is basically how it went yesterday :P
As a person who grew up with atheist/agnostic parents, all I can think of your first paragraph is WTactualF.
Netherlands should be one of the better places to be in for such circumstances. I read here on reddit that there are homes for the elderly that let students live there for free in exchange for some sharing of their adventures with the old residents. It may not be near you but a country that conceives of such an idea will have other resources too. Look around, ask around.
I think that despite all the support you're getting from this subreddit for leaving and standing up to your family's religious beliefs, you you should consider your own safety and situation, first.
They strongly believe that their faith comes before their family.
Doesn't their faith tell them you should die now? Please be careful.
Kid, I feel for ya.
Good notes in the comments. I don't have much to add.
Just this - please be cautious about conflating the things you choose to do with your freedom with atheism. They are not the same thing, and one does not lead to the other.
You got caught smoking weed, drinking, and having sex, all as a teenager. These behaviors are risky for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.
Alcohol can be dangerously addictive and impairs judgment. Teens (including you) need all the sobriety they can get anyway. Weed is mostly innocuous, but it's illegal to use as a minor in most places, which could land you in a lot of shit. It's damn near impossible to stop a teenager from having sex anyway; but are you prepared for the responsibilities that may hit you like a freight train if your b.c. fails you? There are reasons why parents - atheist or Muslim alike - ask their children to refrain or to proceed very carefully with these things. If your parents are cutting off support for you, please consider giving up some of these distractions for a time on your own. You have work to do, and cannot afford to get drunk or high. Stay very diligent about practicing safe sex.
If you were engaging in high-risk behavior because you were acting out against the oppressive religious atmosphere in your home, I get it. But atheism isn't about what you can and can't do. It's about what you believe, or specifically what you don't believe. I think it may be important, when you talk to your parents in the future, that you separate your atheism from the mere fact that you happen to like to do certain things.
Anyway - about your family, and where to go from here.
It sounds like you've never really believed in any gods. What you've lost more recently seems to be the cultural belief that faith has value.
Your family is living under the dangerous and sad delusion that religious faith is necessary for someone to be good. This will make it very difficult for them to accept you for a time. It is not their fault that they think this way. They were indoctrinated into the faith just like they tried to do to you. It is OK to continue loving them from a distance. They are likely enough to come around someday.
Ordinarily, this sub will recommend to people in your position to fake it until you have a degree of financial independence. If that ship has sailed, the next best thing is to find some support. Ask around in your family to see if someone sympathetic can be found who will help you get on your feet. You're unlikely to be the first in your family to have given up religion.
You might try reaching out to an uncle or grandparent. One script that might help you find who you're looking for is, basically, this: "Dear [relative,] I've been going through a crisis of faith. My family thinks that I have given up on Islam, and they have cut me off. I need someone to talk to who has gone through this. Can you help, or point me to someone in the family?"
I suggest you frame this as a questioning period to those relatives, and not as if you've become certain. This will be more likely to get you some help and support while you look for a like-minded relative. Look also for humanist organizations and support groups in your area.
Good luck to you. It'll be OK.
I don't know many details about the Netherlands, but the things I do know would lead me to believe there's probably some help there for people in his specific situation
Focus up. Bust your ass at school. Pass your classes. Get a useful degree. Find a passion. Have fun, but not too much. Sex is great, unplanned babies aren't. A little pot is fine. If anyone ever offers you heroin, you laugh at them and say "not a fucking chance". Seriously.
And, try not to hate your parents. They're brainwashed and broken. They DO love you and it WILL crush them to disown you (if they follow through).
It wasn't stupid. You were backed into a corner and you decided to tell your father the truth. They're religious, but not dumb. He knew there was more to your behavior than just "holding whiskey for a friend" and he wouldn't have just let you off the hook if you'd lied.
You made your stand, now you have to stand your ground. Give your father some time to cool off before you broach the issue again. This won't be the last time you discuss it, just remember to stay cool, don't blame them for anything, don't become defensive, try and be as mature as possible.
Also, and I'm not judging, I just think it'll make things easier, keep the weed, alcohol, and condoms OUT of your house completely. Your parents don't need to think "no god = our son is a drunk, criminal, drug addicted sex fiend" anymore than they already have. Any time you have to defend yourself because they found a joint or something will now make them view your lack of religion negatively and make everything harder. Keep that shit out of their lives, completely. One issue at a time and religion is a huge issue for them.
People who aren't native English speakers pick up random slang here and there. I mix stuff like "y'all", "bladdered" and "blimey", and call chips fries to the great dismay of my British boyfriend.
That's the entire basis for Abrahamic religions. God told Abraham to kill his son, and he was down with it.
Seriously, these are the reactions of the mentally insane.
Off the main thread topic but related to this point - you are completely right that when learning to develop systems you understand deeper and deeper just how systematic the entire world is...
Fuck, maybe we all are just in a simulation. (lol)
Yes, this. Read the FAQ on coming out, and ignore the idiots who think this is a good time to make a stand.
It sucks, but now it's time for you to make a quick and rash decision. I would lie (pretend you're trying to be religious, Fuck it) to give me more time and start working to save more money. They are now a means to an end. Then leave when you get enough money. If you still feel empathy for this behavior to express towards you, leave them a note, and don't feel bad to pass the blame to them as they were not hesitant to do it to you.
I wish you the best of luck, I really do. But you have to stop the bad habits. Quit smoking. Quit drinking. Quit doing drugs. This is a huge time of transition and you can't Fuck it up, or it will catch up to you and kill you. You're not religious, but you should still hold your body with respect.
Different country, different laws.
From what it looks like, your family values religion as a core aspect of what makes your family...family. I don't really see any kind of acceptance of your atheism judging from the extreme cases I've seen here.
If you have some friends whom you can depend on, try staying with them until you find a job. Just try to find any job to be able to live by yourself.
Thus my warning...
It's all so fucking dramatic! His family lacks appropriate coping mechanisms.
Thanks for sharing. That's a really fucked up situation!
In the future build a family of your own and do it better than your parents did.
Ye, but it's not exactly a cheap hobby and OP could use every bit he can save.
The original 'jk lol'
The same kind of god that commands that family to kill him for rejecting Islam. He actually got lucky.
Yeah, exactly. I don't live there either but it's Europe and most countries here are not too keen on seeing other people getting bullied for their beliefs or lack thereof.
It's a good question and I totally see where you are coming from. Also I don't think you are doing anything wrong.
There's a national church tax where I live, but you can opt out of it if you're not religious / not of that persuasion. I opted out around 12 years ago even though most people around me didn't and still haven't. This wasn't some teenage rebellion. I truly don't believe in gods of any kind. So to sit in church, even for an hour is to make a mockery of my own beliefs / lack thereof. An older woman said to me that I was denying myself the spiritual joy of the church and when I said that I get the same joy from sitting at a bus stop, she got pissed.
I don't hate religious people at all, I just think they are some kind of cosplayers in a rendition of a very old play.
Now they think that they are the sinners for having not done a job proper as a parent.
I think they did their job properly since you managed to think for yourself and escape Islam. I went through a similar path but mine was a lot easier than yours. Good luck.
Sleep is just a software update.
The most dangerous drug if taken in large doses. It might not kill you, but it will do far worse.
I'm still scared for him. They made him cut his own picture out of family photos today. Think about their reaction a month from now when they realize this isn't a phase. Honor killings happen all the time. If I was him I'd get the fuck out of that house asap.
smoking weed is hardly considered "doing drugs" these are perfectly normal and acceptable things to do as a person of OP's age. maybe not from a financial standpoint, but ethically theres no harm in what theyre doing. If you take out the religous aspect of the story, then it sounds like every kid that I went to highschool with
My father was in line to become a deacon of the church. We studied the bible thoroughly, and he would often cite Deuteronomy 21:18–21 when he beat us.
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear."
Coupled with a Tiger Mom attitude from asian influences, they were very strict.
They did not believe that children could think for their own, saying that the number of years in exile from the promised land for the israelites was how long it took to kill every adult who could actually be held responsible for their actions. Based on this, they believed I was a rebellious son who would not listen to their command to be christian and that my young age meant they were entitled to absolute rule.
He believed that I was keeping him from being closer to god and fulfilling his role of being deacon. He would also cite the passage about how it is better to cut off your limbs than sin, and combine that with the allegory of how we are all the branches of the tree of christ. He took this interpretation to mean that I needed to be pruned from the tree to save their righteousness.
Wow, not the ending I expected.
Lite to them until you're financially independent. Tell them that how they reacted made you see the errors of your ways. That Allah must be real and working through them to reach you.
Then stop doing things like keeping condoms, liquor, and drugs in your room so they'll have nothing over you in the future.
Do all of that until you are financially independent. It will suck, I know you don't like lying, but they're forcing you to lie just to survive.
Waiting to donate over here.
Sending love and support from New England.
I understand what they believe. That does not mean their belief isnt batshit insane. Their belief is no less insane than someone who is mentally ill with hallucinations. If anything, theirs could be conceived as worse because they do not suffer from a mental illness pathology.
Yeah I will, I have college so times will be though, but I might try loaning some money until I'm back on my feet again. Thank you for your comment
One of the "core fundamentals" of Islam is killing anyone who leaves it.
So let's hope OP's family is a little bit less than fundamentalist, shall we?
I suppose the problem is that it might be the last time they discuss it. He's been given an ultimatum - pretend to be religious or get out. Personally, I'd start to put on a real good act (keeping taboo objects out of the home as you said) while forming a real plan to gain independence. Tell him that you were just ashamed that you had failed God and that's why you lied about not being religious.
But I'm not an expert, nor have I seen many of these cases play out, so I hate to top level comment. That's simply based on my experiences with parents that would never harm me.
It's a bit of immense luck to have a great supporting family. Many people don't get this lucky. I wouldn't guess the statistics but it's significant. Your family is up to chance, your life is up to you. You can deliberately surround yourself with people who really make your life better and provide tangible support. It's a bit of work, it doesn't happen by itself, but what good things in life don't require work?
You haven't been wise about dealing with your family. Wisdom is not something commonly found in 19 year olds so it's perfectly ok. It's also possible that you subconsciously wanted to get discovered. Entirely possible, since living a lie is burdensome. It's worth giving a bit more thought to charting your course from now on. What happened to you may be the best thing because it will make you tap into your resources of planning and being responsible for your life. You have way more resources than you have used so far and you will keep discovering them. Just don't give up. You situation is far from desperate, it doesn't qualify as a disaster. You'll get out of if better off.
Where in the Netherlands are you? I might be able to let you stay at my place for a while if you need somewhere to flee to.
My thought exactly. Let's show this family that we as atheists have more morality and support for a complete stranger then they do for their own flesh and blood.
Considering I need more of it as I age I think of it as more system maintenance and cleaning.
I thought the same thing. The post reads like it's written by someone in the American southern middle west.
If you haven't already head over to /sub/exmuslim and post this also checkout the sidebar. There are people who will help out those that have been disowned by their families because of religion.
Every other year, I hear about a parent killing their kid in the US. If you make a break, make a clean break and come back in a few years.
True, but expected. Pick a metaphor: Scorpion and the Frog; Leopard's Spots; "You have to understand, most of these people aren't ready to be unplugged".
While their behavior is obviously atrocious by any reasonable standard, one would have to be literally insane to expect them to act otherwise.
Utterly disgusting behaviour from the family.
My personal advice would be to quit pot altogether until u/BasilNoeman has a job and a place. Saves money and allows one to focus, and also makes job hunting easier. If anyone needs help quitting weed, check out /sub/leaves
I will, thank you!
You are a citizen in Europe, you will be fine. Check your colleges social services see who they can hook you up with about getting some welfare.
Yes but at 19 all of those things are legal in the Netherlands.
Methinks a legal change is in order there.
Because sadly, honor killing is still a thing within this religion, regardless which laws a country possesses.
I know it's off topic but can you explain your reasoning behind not wanting to attend church with your family on Christmas? I'm an atheist too, I know there's no chance of me ever believing in God again despite being raised and confirmed Catholic and my family's pestering, but I'll still join them at church on Christmas Eve. Christmas is about family and I've never wanted to drive a huge wedge in it because I think all the religious stuff is fairy tale nonsense. Why not just go and be a little bored and listen to Christmas music and enjoy all the candles and Christmas trees and stuff? I go to church one day a year and sit there without singing the songs or saying the prayers, and I'm happy to do it because it makes my family happy.
What the literal fuck is wrong with your parents acting like that? Mine are pretty religious (going to church every week, praying and all) but the worst they could do is being disappointed in me but accepting my choice if I would tell them
Before we start throwing cash at this we need to verify. The guy writes like a college educated American, not like a Dutch Egyptian. I'm skeptical.
God- "Hahahaha!!! Oh man! You were really gonna do it! You're crazy man. You're crazy. I got you so good. I can't believe you were gonna go through with it. For centuries we had just been doing animal sacrifices and that was cool and all, but I say do it with your kid and you are fine with it? Naa man, just kill a goat like usual. I was just seein how far you would go. I mean, I'm God. I can already see in your heart you would do that. I don't need you to actually do it. I just told you to kill your son so YOU could see that you would kill your own son. Haha, enough of this. You are cool Abraham. I like you. You are one crazy bastard, but I like you"
We all make mistakes. Don't beat yourself over it. There are benefits to not having to pretend. Your timing was a bit off, that's all. As KingKnee pointed out, you live in one of the best countries to make that kind of mistake.
Yeah. OP --really-- needs to go to a self-defense course and start practicing. Also, get a new phone, delete your social media and move out NOW.
ANY family that has a collective breakdown like this is very dangerous and capable of murder.
Hardly, you have to understand that they truly believe that he will suffer eternal punishment for his actions. What would you do if someone close to you who you loved told you that they were going to suffer a fate worse than death? Again to them the existence of God is as evident as the idea that the world is round. All they hear is "Hi mom I'm going to burn forever in eternal hell fire because I think the world is flat." Given that you accept the premise their actions are completely understandable in fact to accept the choice of a loved one to leave the religion and not do anything about it that would be insane that would be mental on a psychopath level. You can't expect religious people to stand idly by on this issue, because while people will believe stupid things people in general are not lunatics.
I'm also willing to send a few dollars, with love from New York, USA
All I know is that women in this kind of situation can sometimes be honor killed by family. I don't know what you should do, only you can take in all the facts, but be careful. People who value religion over family will value religion over crime as well.
This - this is why religion is a poison. Because in the minds of OP's parents, he's done something much worse than murdering someone. His parents think he is evil. They think they're good people. And they're probably torn up inside.
I find that for me, as the eldest, my experience was by far the most liberal out of the family. Probably a large part because after how I "turned out" things were clamped down to some degree.
All the same, I was raised strongly religious myself, and I'm glad I didn't stay that way. It wound up being that even when I had stated I wasn't religious my belief simply wasn't accepted, and I was expected to follow through the routine all the same (or be kicked out). Eventually the latter happened.
My 5 younger siblings are more or less fine, academically they do well and they're relatively normal, but seeing the toxic way both parents and even they themselves manipulate each other, particularly towards the younger ones (youngest is 11) to adhere to their religion and go beyond that is really disgusting to me.
People in my family work in different hospitals. They regularly tell how whole Turkish families will start to cry and wail if a member of the family will get as much as an x-ray.
Just an anecdote. Not wanting to be offensive. Coping mechanisms doesn't seem to be a strong suit in Muslim families.
Hang on. Let's be practical. Come up with a Plan B first before you become homeless and get hurt or hunted down by your family.
You'd be better off just leaving them and not saying a word. Their religion calls for your execution now that you knowingly left your faith. Its an affront to their god. In their minds you need to die.
Good for you for getting out tho. I'd leave though. You're brother may decide to take things literally. He already showed a disregard for your property.
Are you kidding? If he puts even the slightest effort in they will make themselves believe him, because that's what they want to believe.