Bin Laden's victory continues.
You think the face scans are questionable? --GOOD THING NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE FINGERPRINT DATABASES
It's also amazing how it's not just their victory. Quite a few other parties got exactly what they wanted out of 9/11 too.
Thats what i find funny about this country now "we dont let the terrorists win" yet we do everything now out of fear of terrorism. Look at France. Theyve been fucked up the past couple years and still hold their head high. The old fragile men running the US have lost their balls in place of coins.
What's the point? They have my passport photo.
We have forgotten about the millimeter wave scanners already.
You assume they are fearful, rather than taking advantage of an opportunity to extend their control as all authoritarians have attempted to do in the past.
You get a very thorough pat down and a run through the metal detector. I often had to wait a few minutes for a TSA member to come, and they also go through your bags as an added deterrent to people using that alternative. Basically they try to make it a pain in the ass.
And they know where I'm going and for how long.. they also know my dob, address, and ssn.
Judgemental people discriminate against other people for nonsensical reasons. Our bill of rights was written to ensure that these abuses would not happen again. We have a real motive to not allow this. Surveilance nation is not a free nation.
We already have passports and passport photos. This is simply a method to introduce face scanning an normalize it. "As long as you're not doing anything wrong, you should allow law enforcement to search your car, your house, your phone, your computer..." NO!
I do not do illegal acts, I do not consent for anyone to search my home, car or other devices. I do not consent fingerprints taken without warrant. I do not not allow DNA samples taken without warrant. If you want to scan my face, get a warrant, prove probable cause. Legally crossing a border is not criminal.
I opt out every time for myself and so others see that it is an option, but yeah no one cares
Shut up, you're going to fuck up sailboating for everyone.
Now, where would I acquire a sailboat for say, $15?
"Congress has agreed several times to extend face scans on foreign nationals leaving the US, but critics say that lawmakers never intended for Americans to also become subject to the new measure."
Remember when we first heard about the NSA spying on people's phone conversations and email and the right said, "Don't worry, the NSA is only interested in listening to foreign nationals. American citizens aren't part of the data collection." Do not believe them when they say only certain people are part of the surveillance. EVERYONE is swept up in it. Everyone.
You get a very thorough pat down and a run through the metal detector.
I refuse the scanner every time, and by recollection, they've never run me through a metal detector; I just get the pat down. You remain behind the scanner until a TSA employee opens a gate to the side; you walk through, then you get your Freedom Grope. Usually they do some chemical testing of their gloves, too. But no metal detector.
they also go through your bags as an added deterrent to people using that alternative.
I haven't had that happen.
Terrorism is the excuse, not the reason.
Bin Laden lost, the American people lost, the American government won. If you read any of Bin Laden's writings he specifically wanted the western presence out of the middle east.
And they know where I'm going and for how long..
You should buy a sailboat, they have no idea where you are going, or for how long. And they don't care. People spend years sailing around the world, or hell even just the Caribbean. It's really pretty simple.
The best part is with each terrorist attack, we find out the perp(s) were reported multiple times by family, church, neighbors, or were known when they crossed the border the first time.
All that info and they still couldn't stop them (assumption they're trying). Obviously the answer is even more data!
Eat some viagra before going to the airport, or while at the airport depending on how long it will take to reach the pat down. If they find something solid between your legs they'll have to spend some time giving it extra patting to make sure it's not a weapon.
Cheapest handy of your life.
Do you then just go through the metal detector and get patted down? Curious.
Yep, they don't give a fuck, they have private security n shit
A marina. Bring paint and brush to change name and bow number. Yarr harr fiddle de dee.
Time to find a new gym
Your gym is not storing your fingerprint. When they read your fingerprint it is translated into what's called minutiae. These are the locations of features and such that can be used to make a positive match, but it is impossible to recreate your fingerprint from the minutiae.
The actual minutiae information is encoded/hashed and stored in the database. It looks just like random data. It's not an image of your fringerpribt and it's impossible to recreate the fingerprint from this data.
The reason your gym is doing this is so 1) you don't need your membership card for enterance, and 2) makes it basically impossible to share your membership.
Source: have worked with similar systems.
Companies involved with the U.S war economy, weapons contractors, etc..
It's disturbing to think how many Americans profited off of 9/11.
This is it exactly. Remember the Patriot Act how it was supposed to be temporary? Yeah...most of the provisions are still in effect. The TSA, though proven multiple times to be completely worthless and incompetent, Is still around and gaining more power.
I'm proud to live in the land of the kinda free.
Legally crossing a border is not criminal.
It's a catch-22 because now crossing an international border legally requires a face scan. So not submitting to one and crossing would actually be criminal.
They wipe their gloves with a little cotton swab, then put that into the drug/bomb chemical testing machine. I believe the theory is if there is any residue on your clothes, it transfers to their gloves during your Freedom Grope and then the machine can pick it up and save humanity.
So when do we start reporting our neighbors for "unamerican activities" to our local Stasi branch?
My fucking gym wants my fingerprints on file now... I've been telling them to pound sand for months, but when my contract is up they'll def want them
This is getting ridiculous
"Cheapest handy of your life"
I gave you an up vote, but you've obviously never had a prescription for viagra. 6 pills costs me $130 and that's after insurance.
There is no more useless gov't agency than Homeland Security. That's saying something.
This is legitimately the worst part about it. It has been proven ineffective over and over again. This To me means that it has never been about homeland security, but about mass surveillance.
they do some chemical testing of their gloves, too.
They grope you then sniff the glove?
I hope this goes up. He was motivated by what he saw as invasion by the US and specially want the Americans to ask why 9/11 happened and eventually see that it's their government's fault. Of course it didn't happen the way he wanted.
To be fair the Coast Guard will fuuuuuck you up if you ever get checked.
I also assume some marinas check numbers? I dunno. I'm a redditor, not a Coastie.
Your gym?? What the fuck? Does your gym require you apply for a security clearance as well??
The goal is to have a record of who physically got on the plane. There is nothing that prevents you from going through customs then deciding to not take your flight, and leaving the airport.
This allows people to seem like they complied with their visa restriction; so ICE believes they've left the country. But they haven't.
A photo at the jetway is a much more reliable record that you actually boarded a flight leaving the country.
Yep, I refuse every time too, and have never gone through the metal detector. Somehow, I am ALWAYS asked to go through the scanner. Since it was implemented, I've never not been asked.
Always get my freedom pat down and they sometimes use a metal detecting wand that they wave over my body. About 50% of the time, they've gone through my bags after they go through the X-ray. Whole thing takes about 10 extra minutes.
Well how else are we supposed to ensure national security with nothing more than the FBI, CIA, DEA, Secret Service, Customs & Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Marshals, Coast Guard, the Military, DIA, NSA, State Police, County Sheriffs, City Police, etc? Not having the DHS would be letting the terrorists win! /s
Homeland security; "Fuck you, we're a better monopoly than Cable"
That's really quite in the spirit of the book. Having been in the military, Catch-22 sure could get me fuming for a humor book.
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he were sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to, but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
Correction - how many Americans are fucked over by the few hundred or so who have profited from it..
It has been for the last 15 years. Now it's gotten beyond ludicrous.
Agreed, this is something that has been stated over and over since before 9/11 in regards to things like the War on Drugs. An assualt on one person's civil liberties is an assault on all our civil liberties.
Yea seriously, you think our leadership is afraid of terrorists? We're the United States for crying out loud, our leadership is more afraid of not fully sucking out every oppertunity to turn the fear of terrorism into more authoritarian control.
Maybe instead of scanning peoples faces at airports they could just make some some kind of photo sharing website people could use for free. They can upload their pictures and share them with their friends, even make comments about those photos. Then they could use all of THOSE pictures to train machine learning algorithms for facial recognition. It'd be like an online photo book. A book of faces so to speak.
Speaking as a European, I've travelled to China, North America, Australia, Oceania and Europe. Only ever been fingerprinted in the US
Unknown as they went through literally no medical certification process, but they still emit a form of radiation that can penetrate at least your clothing.
Cronyism. I hope it doesn't happen but I wouldn't be surprised in 20 years to find out that the TSA gave shitloads of people cancer.
the TSA was never meant to actually provide protection. It was meant to provide the expensive illusion of protection to the average Walmart frequenter. It has achieved its goal
A government that treats its citizens like criminals and guilty until proven innocent should be abolished.
Not to mention the cost of the plane ticket.
Not actually correct.
Now they do what they want and blame terrorism. Nobody with half a brain believes the security bullshit at airports works. It's been very conclusively proven not to.
At this point it's as much an excuse to continually encroach on liberties and rights, as it is about anything else.
What happens if you exercised your second amendment rights while wearing the clothing sometime in the past? Do they finger your butthole?
Hiroshima worked because Japan couldnt fight back against A bombs, all Bin Laden did was kick a hornets nest.
I so wish that after 9/11 happened we had stood up and dusted ourselves off and said to the world that we've been hurt so we will mourn our dead, heal our wounded and rebuild our buildings, and we will hunt down and butcher those who done it. But most importantly, we will NOT change anything about how we go about our lives.
Instead, we did more to harm ourselves and our way of life than terrorists ever could have done. They have been smirking at us ever since.
I can't even begin to imagine the result if we suffer a major attack (or disaster of any kind, really) with clown ruler Trump in charge.
Free or $3.00 copay for male members of Congress under their Insurance plan, I heard. ;)
They first said the machines weren't even capable of saving data... they are. Then they said they weren't capable of transferring data... they are. Then they said they're not storing the data or keeping it beyond its immediate usefulness... they are.
Every car that drives into DC has its tag recorded. Did we think the government wasn't going to use the technology that is created? And when we pass bills with names like The Patriot Act where we give away our freedoms what did we expect would happen?
We get the kind of country we deserve. And since most Americans are too busy shopping to care what their government is doing, we will soon get there.
Yes and no. The original backscatter machines pumped out a lot of radiation that was dangerous to pregnant women. When this was confirmed with testing, the machines were replaced.....but not before TSA had ridiculed the press and scientists for even asking and it came out that the scanner companies themselves had doubts but rushed the machines to production anyway (also, the scanner company was owned by the immediate families of Congressional Republicans, who by golly, didn't understand all the fuss over Freedom Scanners).
I opt out whenever I fly for business because I don't trust TSA about their machine safety and I enjoy making uncomfortable eye contact with TSA agents during the whole pat down security routine.
There is a better reason to be opposed: these face databases are training a big computer somewhere for ever more efficient face scanning. It will be deployed on highways, schools, grocery stores eventually.
The only reason I am opposed to this is because it adds hassle, and literally will cost me money through both my ticket price and taxes. They already have this information, so whatever on that front. But adding pointless hassle to my life for something that I have to pay for. Not a fan.
The probability of being caught up in a terrorist attack is so small that spending much time worrying about it is silly. If you're an American, you stand a far, far greater chance of dying in a traffic accident. Yet we don't really talk about it at all.
No, its an opportunity to turn giant piles of tax money into profits for the defense and security contractors.
"See something, Say something"
American foreign policy in the middle east has basically caused modern terrorism, but bring that up and you're a traitor.
If we just let the world deal with their own problems and focused on ourselves, then we could save a ton of money and enjoy peace.
Same here. USA has the most rigorous checks I've encountered.
Yeah but kind of like a rub and tug, just leave the tip on the table and be flirty but casual.
We should call it Bookface
Software engineer here, enjoyed this post
I count 3 new zeros
I travel quite a lot internationally... never been fingerprinted as a citizen.
Can't they just see who boarded the flight?
Actually, if you're an American you stand a far greater chance of choking on your own food then dying in a terrorist attack, but if we don't allow the TSA to strip search you on a whim then the terrorists win.
Every app on your phone wants your first born son. I guess the gym wants a piece of that Rumplestiltskin gold. Jokes on them, I've already signed him away about 100 times.
Holy shit. It never occurred to me that it would be expensive medication, I guess that explains all spam and ads over the years for alternatives or presumably bullshit products. I guess I just figured it was discretion thing, not a logistics one. 130 bucks for six boners is pretty steep.
Jokes on them. I'm part of the working poor and I can't afford international travel.
You might find this amusing: Every time I get the scan, the machine's picked up something on my left side. The pat me down, obviously there's nothing there.
I got a CT last year, and it turns out there's a benign 2" cyst near my left kidney.
Exactly this. I'm so sick of the pathetic use of the word "patriotism" to keep the masses in favor of the military. It's more patriotic to storm Washington enmasse and hang every last politician than support the oligarchy that's in charge.
Wait. Is there really no other way to verify a boats identity?
You probably get more radiation from flying than the machine though
I certainly didn't. No one I know wants this surveillance state.
Here's a news flash, the American government doesn't represent the will of it's people. In recent sentiment polls Hepatitis scored higher than the US Congress. The words biggest buffoon lost the popular vote and now he is the damn president.
Americans happen to be too busy working multiple jobs paying off massive medical bills to protest in the streets every day.
Hell, heart disease is still the number one killer of Americans. 24% of us die from heart illness in some fashion, yet we're not spending billions protecting citizens from fried foods and implementing mandatory exercise programs in all 50 states. Not that I'm in favor of those solutions, but they'd at least be statistically relevant instead of arguing over which desert tribe is pointing AK47s across the Atlantic.
No, it's most definitely the scanning. Without the scanning, the rest isn't an issue. If they're doing it, you can't prove that they're not keeping the info.
People who take nitro pills for their heart/diabetes set off these chem sniffers as well. My 90 year old grandmother went through a 4 hour ordeal because her Amigo scooter had "TNT" on the handles.
Remember folks... business is making this possible, the government asks for it, and business gets the award. As government privatizes, this will accelerate. Government is lost without industry but you keep being upset with government alone.
Well, it's final. If they build that wall, it'll be to keep us in the country. East Germany, here we come!
I don't trust the government scanning my body. More biometric data for the federal government should be the last thing anyone wants.
They say the "discard" it, but I trust that as much as I trust the NSA.
Dammit gym, I'm a doctor not a criminal.
Yeah, we just have a keyfob
As much as I despise Bin Laden, I can see that from his point of view that might have been like Hiroshima, killing innocents to save many more innocents. He might have overestimated how much people were gonna think of the causes of 911.
California required me to register my motorcycle as "non operative" vehicle while it was in storage not being used. I got a $900 fine for failing to do so because I assumed, "if I'm not riding it around what's the problem?" Nope, you have to prove to them you're not breaking the law. I thought it was their job to pull me over if I was driving with an unregistered vehicle?
Guilty until you prove your own innocence. Fuck that, I moved.
Soviets were doing the same shit in the middle east so dealt with the same blowback.
Brits... oh god the fucking Brits colonized half the fucking world. Of course they dealt with blowback.
India's problems come from de-colonization of the Brits.
So yeah if you want to be Imperial you end up with the problems of Imperialism which include blow-back from people in your colonies that don't like being controlled.
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
That said there are the bullshit random ISIS attacks, but you can 100% count on if we had modern reporting in England and the USA was trying to escape from under the crown today, it would be portrayed as insurgents and terrorists. Once the insurgents and terrorists win, they get to write the history in which they stood up to an oppressive and tyrannical and illegitimate rule that was forced down their throats.
Much of everything is perspective.
Countries that didn't colonize others or park their armies overseas for decades tend to not generate the currents which lead to blow back by entities that turn to terror because it's what they have that can work.
Bin Laden was an evil man and we as a world and as a species are suffering from shit in which he took part, but he did say, if I hated freedom we would be attacking Sweden or something along that line. That people use the line "they hate us because we are free", anyone who is using that line, is trying to control you. Nobody hates someone because they are free. Hate is a long complex thing involving misunderstanding, ignorance, and sometimes rightful anger. If you fucking bombed my village and killed all my people and I escaped without legs, I will hate you. I don't care if you pretend you're free or what color flag you fly or what skin color or sky spirit you worship. I don't are if you say sorry but you're collateral damage or else scream and celebrate the obliteration of my village.
I don't care.
I will hate you because you wiped out everyone I loved and I have no fucking legs.
That's why people hate.
If you played pattycake with our local tyrant because we had oil and my people were not free for half a century so you could enrich yourself on our resources, and we overthrew that asshole against your special forces, your intelligence agents, your spies and your propaganda, all in place so you could fucking milk our country like a fat cow of every dollar we had and then after this you sponsored another country to fight us and ruin both countries for a decade killing hundreds of thousands of people.... no I wouldn't hate you because you were free. I would hate you for what you did.
That people go through that and come out the other end not hating is amazing and shows what people are capable of on the good side. That some will hate is an understandable reaction to the events they were buried in.
Of course if you want to have your own head buried in the sand, someone else can come along and give you carte blanche to do that by giving you the easy to swallow blue pill of, "Don't worry friend, they hate us because we're free."
"If you don't like our laws stop being born here."
I think you're missing a few zeros, buddy. It'll cost you at least $150.00 for a new boat.
Now it's gotten beyond ludicrous.
Homeland One has gone plaid?
Homeland Security says Americans who don't want faces scanned leaving the country "shouldn't travel"
American says government workers who don't want to abide by US Constitution shouldn't be free. They should be locked up, and then extradited to Russia which they love more than America.
Been boating and spending weekends at marinas since I was a very small child. There's nothing else. Some states have state tags, but only idiots title and register their large sailboat in the US. Most have Caribbean registrations to avoid taxes and fees.
Yeah I feel like you just gave advice from watching CSI or something
I'm still waiting on that peace and prosperity we were told about
I was like WTF does a clothing store have to do with ooooh. My bad.
There are some people on here that defend corporations to their death. America is fucking lost. I don't understand how people are so loyal to entities that would literally kill you if it meant they could make a buck and get away with it. Brainwashed idiots
Please don't say stuff like that. We are in a permanent state of emergency. We aren't allowed to demonstrate in the streets. Police and soldiers armed with assault rifles are everywhere. The authorities can do whatever they want to a person on suspicion (no need for proof) that they're linked in some way to terrorists. It's getting more opressive every day. Government officials are using that.