You know, the Kotaku article in question is kinda funny. For all the concern about the plight of women in esports, isn't it strange that the author didn't talk to a single woman at all and ask for their opinions? 🤔
Heres a couple things people involved in the actual scene and aren't outsiders looking in are saying:
Kate Mitchell who is the Media Manager of Kungarna
As a woman in esports: Overwatch should be more accessible to women, with more and better tools to combat harassment and toxic players. Then more women would want to play enough to grind to high Elo and join scrims and PUGs.
Overwatch League is fine. No NA/EU woman has come even close to establishing a semi-pro resume. Geguri should find a Contenders team and prove herself there — which is what she’s trying to do anyway! Nathan Grayson’s article was irresponsible and doesn’t address what the actual issues are with women in OW.
Franplayshalo on Twitter https://twitter.com/franplayshalo/status/951452188743753728
If this helps, I have never been denied a tryout for a team because of my gender. Only because I wasn't good enough. That's okay because I am not afraid of failure, for it is the key to success. I'm still motivated and will continue to grind.
Barcode replies in the thread "same"
And what disappoints me is that when the last controversy involving Geguri came out (taken from the same guy OP linked: https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/951556010010869760)
Geguri declined to speak further. Last year after dealing with cheat accusations she tweeted "I don’t want people to use my story as a way to forward their own ideologies". Using Geguri for the lack of women in OWL esports ignores her request & does a disservice to the issue.
Noukky (big community member, and overall awesome)
As a former female Overwatch competitive player and TO I can say this article is hardly representative of our scene. The number of female players on the higher level is too slim to be upset about none of them being in OWL in comparison to the male talent. Its no use to force them
Its a bit unfortunate that this kind of "reporting" can paint with such broad strokes, and I wonder if even if they came from a place of good intent (or just getting controversy clicks) does trying to stir up drama make it harder for people to enter the scene? Does a casual passerby who reads this gets dissuaded from trying the game or getting into pro Esports if they think its already a lost battle? It would seem a bit irresponsible. I do agree with Kate though, if toxicity/harassment was cracked down on further, it'd be an improvement all around
I won't even go into the OWL caster issue controversy too much, because I think making a bigger text block will make people less likely to read this, but check out Goldenboy's Tweet.
and a very well written piece by Jamerson https://twitter.com/JetSetJamerson/status/951673594274131969
Did you go into a Kotaku article expecting good journalism or accurate reporting ? You're silly.
I said this in a comment below but I'll reiterate it in a comment to the main article. The author of the article does seem to imply that Geguri wasn't hired because of her gender but that isn't honestly the thing that was annoying for me while reading the article. That's the author's take and opinion. IMO what made me angry was the circular reasoning given by coaches and managers to why they didn't hire Geguri:
1) Geguri hasn't been on a team so she doesn't have history or chemistry with other team members
2) Because of this lack of history, they don't hire her
3) Because she isn't hired, she can't develop the history or chemistry necessary to play at the highest level
Yes, Geguri should follow the standard path set out by the vast majority of players (Sleepy being the major exception I can think of) and get on a Contenders team to prove herself but if this same set of logic follows when making a Contenders roster, how is she supposed to prove herself?
This doesn't even touch on some of the bullshit hand-waving reasoning the coaches and managers gave in the article about mixed housing, harassment, people considering it a PR stunt, etc...
Another comment listed below I think does more properly articulate the problem for the majority of women in OW. Toxicity and harassment on the ladder discourages women from playing OW seriously and talking in voice. Since fewer women are here in the first place and fewer women are willing to grind out and practice, fewer women get put on open division teams. Since fewer women are on open division teams, this shrinks the pool of women who A) are talented enough to move to OWL and B) have the requisite "chemistry and history" to be considered viable. It isn't formal policies set by OWL or Blizzard that are keeping the vast majority of women out of esports, it's the community and its treatment of female players. Though to be fair to people who talk about lack of women in esports, they often do mean this and not some fantasy where people think Blizz or OWL have formal policies that say "no grills allowed." Nobody is ever saying that in earnest when they're talking about this.
edit: the gold is completely unnecessary but thank you to whoever gifted it <3
Oh no, I'm abundantly aware of what a piece-of-shit haven Kotaku is for smug pseudo-intellectuals to show off their chronic underachievement.
This is a really great post - I appreciate the time you put into making it well documented and thorough. I especially appreciate your inclusion of this quote:
Kate Mitchell who is the Media Manager of Kungarna As a woman in esports: Overwatch should be more accessible to women, with more and better tools to combat harassment and toxic players. Then more women would want to play enough to grind to high Elo and join scrims and PUGs.
I think this is one of the fundamental aspects at play that is being overlooked. Sure OWL itself may be accepting of diversity, but that doesn't mean the path to get there is.
It does a disservice to the game to merely reference the league rules and say that's that. Statistically, the presence of zero women in the league warrants evaluating if there are areas of the game that provide biased experiences based on gender and if there are measures that can be taken to help rectify this. Having women in the league would only benefit the game, and we should be making sure to do our best to ensure the same opportunities are provided to all.
I find Kotaku comment sections fucking fascinating. Look at this...
It’d be cool if blizzard removed all of the female characters from competitive gameplay and esports until women were “allowed” to play.
Geguri told me not getting signed to a OWL team had nothing to do with her being a woman. Further, she is uncomfortable with the controversy itself.
This is why it's generally a bad idea to get offended on someone else's behalf. You're not them, you don't have all the information, and many times you embarrass the person by making a big deal about a characteristic of theirs...when really all they want is to be respected for their fragging ability and nothing else.
Thanks for compiling the posts.
I watch Barcode's stream. She's probably the top female McCree. She even admits that scrims and pro games are totally different from regular ladder. She's also obviously mechanically talented enough to be a top player, but people need to realize that the top talent in the OWL is still getting figured out. There are a ton of male players still waiting to get in. I do hope that more opportunities will be given to women as well.
I'll give Fran's stream a shot.
Look, it was kinda bad journalism, but also the people interviewed are 100% bullshitting the author of that article. Geguri, bless her, doesn't really see the big picture either. It's true: there aren't any women in OWL not because of official discrimination, but because there aren't any women talented enough who are interested. BUT the reason this is the case is absolutely obvious:"Core" gaming and eSports are a toxic wasteland of sexism Girls are (especially until recently) discouraged from gaming, boys who want to spend their free time gaming are at least tolerated or even encouraged. FPS games are an even more toxic sexist shithole than most games Overwatch is unusually toxic (because of the team coordination aspect) even by FPS standards. With this in mind, it's an absolute miracle of marketing and game design that 1/5 or 1/6 OW players are women at all So why on earth would any woman ever put up with the absolute torrent of garbage (in-game and IRL) necessary to practice the thousands of hours necessary to be a top pro?
And then, once she's made it, it gets worse:Most top players, god bless 'em, are good at the game but pretty bad at life. They're almost all toxic shitheads, and lots are sexist to boot. They aren't going to play well with women. It's going to be a mess and people are going to get fired for sexual harassment. The first time she makes the smallest mistake, twitch and reddit are going to be all "lol boosted mercy main, get back in the kitchen loljk". Worse, unless her team actually dominates, the media/commentators are going to weasel-word around "well, we're all for women in the league, but maybe she's just not good enough..."
Let's face it, only the top 0.1% thickest-skinned women would ever want to be a part of this, and the overlap with the 0.1% best players is pretty small. Like, barcode_ow is probably the only well-known person who meets that criteria right now, and she has health problems that prevent her from putting in the practice hours needed. Heck, lots of top men don't want to go pro (why bother when you can stream for a living?), it's no surprise women aren't interested.
tl;dr: Fix gaming culture from the ground level, and then we can talk about women playing in OWL.
I mean; you can take the piss out of Kotaku all you want, but they went straight to the teams to ask and none of them gave the reasons you did. They gave kind of bullshit answers like "hurr durr we don't know how to do mixed housing". Give bullshit answers, get a bullshit article.
We tend to not talk about the harassment we get because theres a sort of sexist hivemind thinking when it comes to women in video games. If we complain about things like getting harassed were "thin skinned" or "triggered." And it's not that we can't overcome it, because we do, but you don't hear us talking about it because talking about usually just makes it worse.
Isn't that pretty much the current modus operandi of the "I'll be offended on other people's behalf" crowd?
To be in OWL you need to first be in the top 500, then join a team, Win the open division games, participate in the contenders trials and then get to OWL. If no girls participated or were good enough to get to the last stage, there will be no girls in the league.
OWL made it very clear that anyone could participate and on the original video even had girls (and boys) on the generic animation.
Here is the video with all the details
I am glad she spoke up. This gender agenda is the dumbest thing. Feels like people that push this agenda monitor the media 24/7 to find something they can bitch about and get attention. Kotaku and other websites publish this crap because people just eat it up and gives them hits, retweets and views for their ads. Most of the time they have no idea what they are talking about.
Make one of the most diverse casts in modern gaming history. Get told to delete all females... I get its for a protest but it just seems so counterintuitive. 1 step forward, 2 step back.
As a female, it's because we want to be considered for our skill and worth rather than what is between our legs that you don't hear "OWL sausage fest" because guess what, people are smart enough to understand OWL is a meritocracy.
Still, there are numerous reasons females are discouraged to play. It's not an OWL issue, but a bigger social issue. A good read: https://mindgames.blog/2017/08/19/women-in-esports/ from Jake, who is in Outlaws
None of us want to get harassed lol. Join a team like that and it would never end
There's a difference between the way men and women are trolled.
Similar to what you are saying, the top comment from the thread in /sub/cow:
It HAS to be later. People like this shit me.
I say this about the legal profession often: it takes 15-20 years to reach the top from the day you enter the profession. If you expect to see parity at the top then you need to have seen parity at the bottom two decades ago. Otherwise the women capable of being at the top can't have got there yet.
Same with gaming. It's relatively new to the mainstream and until very recently was the hobby of nerdy dudes. 8% of FPS players are women. OW exceeds that trend at about 16%. For most of them, they're probably new to it. As dudes, our parents bought us consoles and copies of goldeneye and counterstrike. They didn't encourage girls to start gaming the same way.
These days, it's different. I'm sitting here watching my six year old daughter pop a tac visor on Anubis point A as I write this. Girls like her (but probably not her if she's a scrub like me) will be top tier gamers in the future. It's not fair to expect 18-22 year old girls now to compete with dudes who have been playing games flat out since they were 6-10 years old. Girls didn't really pick up gaming the same way guys did ten years ago, which means that nowhere near as many girls have 10 years of experience at a young age.
It takes time. There's no avoiding that. It fucking sucks. I want to see girl pros kicking ass right now but that ain't how it works. I wish we planted the tree twenty years ago and it had grown and we could sit in the branches. The best we can do is plant the tree now and nurture it. No amount of whining is going to make that sapling grow faster.
I hope that it doesn't take too much time, but I also don't want to force it.
Tweets like this put a smile on my face: https://twitter.com/overwatchleague/status/951344060215607301
There are a lot of things to be said about the gender divide in competitive gaming (and gaming in general), but I hate when people pull shit like this because it makes the issue worse. Because now people are going to see this and say "hurr bdurr feminists r dumb!" and ignore the actual gender issues because one guy made a stupid, uneducated article. I hope people see this as "Kotaku writer making clickbait" and not "Feminazi idiots pushing man-hating agenda" because I've never met a Feminist who would actually agree with his article.
Classic Kotaku. Remember that Kotaku article that said that Lucio's jazzy skin is offensive? Kotaku thinks of all kinds of stupid shit and plasters journals without even asking for people's opinions.
Their reasoning is incredibly circular imo... They give some base reasons why they think hiring a woman in general would be difficult (mixed housing, harassment, people thinking it's a PR stunt, etc) but when asked about Geguri specifically they say, "well she doesn't have chemistry with a team and we hire people with chemistry" but if you're reluctant to hire women they'll never have chemistry with a team so you won't hire them because they lack chemistry. Rinse and repeat...
The parts of the article that aren't quotes seem to imply it's because she's a woman but the quotes themselves stand on their own and to be honest they're pretty stupid reasons. "yeah we think women should be OWL but like... later... and we're not going to do it." Pretty fucking flimsy reasoning.
I don't think Kotaku cares about the person or even the issue itself, they just want to create outrage for them clicks.
Not to mention "we wouldn't want to disrespect a woman by giving the impression that we're only hiring her for tokenism."
Absolute garbage. To fully respect women we should not sign any women so that no woman is the token woman!
I think it goes beyond that. The whole idea that the situation will get better sometime in the future, so why push for it now? That's really thin.
It's 100% fine to say she's not good enough for these teams (whether from an individual skill standpoint or a synergy standpoint). It's 100% fine to say that pro women in Overwatch are not at that level in sufficient numbers just yet. But to say that it'll get better, as though it's inevitable? No, no. That's only going to be the future if people actually try to make it happen.
Imagine your desire for social justice becoming so twisted that you end up supporting discrimination and segregation
Absolute garbage. To fully respect women we should not sign any women so that no woman is the token woman!
Yup that's exactly it.
Like tbh the first woman put on a pro team is 100% going to have all her credentials called into question and people shit talking coaches/managers for """"white knighting""" and """pandering""" but if it's true that all these people agree women should be on pro teams then someone needs to be the one to step up. It's the bystander effect basically: "oh well someone else will do it..."
Kotaku just shoves garbage onto the internet to get people to view ads.
Anyone can join OWL, you just have to be good and prove it.
Ironic that the feminist post comes from the random redditor and not the paid writer.
Congratulations for actually listening to woman. Something surprisingly few still understand.
"We don't want the negative PR that comes from people thinking we hired a woman for PR."
Jason knew about the owner of NeoGAF being a sexual predator for years and sat on it because he was "protected" on NeoGAFs forums and they shilled Kotaku pretty hard over there.
I've never met a Feminist who would actually agree with his article.
It's almost as if opinions held by the vocal minority online aren't common in the real world.
Seriously people just need to go outside and talk to each other lol
welcome to the cult of outrage
Don't thank me, thank Kate Mitchell and the others. I'm just copy pasting
Which, of course, is even more disgusting.
If the article actually talked about this directly like you did instead of disrespecting Geguri's wishes, I would respect it and share it. The article should be about what we can do to nurture (work to change the toxic shit-mess that games can be) rather than just "whine."
Also, while there are some top players that are sexist (the reason why I'll never watch a Gale stream), there are those that do understand the problem and it's been in conversation for a while (example from Jake of Outlaws)
I was cheering Hulk Hogan against Gawker harder than I ever did in the 90s
'our boys might feel uncomfortable if a girl was suddenly on our team'
The nice way of saying, one of them is likely to be a moron because he's living with a girl under the same roof that isnt his sister.
I was more bothered by the interviews from the teams themselves. It wasn't anything professional or even factual, but just beating around the bush and throwing around what sound an awful lot like excuses. The impression I got from it was 'our boys might feel uncomfortable if a girl was suddenly on our team' which isn't too extreme in online gaming, unfortunately. OW is better than most other games as far as welcoming women, but there are still players out there that go on attack-dog mode the moment they find out a girl is playing on their team. Hopefully it gets better all around, but it's going to take time.
In game, in the comp Overwatch subreddit, other online communities, Facebook groups, twitch chats, etc. “It doesn’t happen because I don’t see it” is a logical fallacy.
EDIT: And even now in this thread you're telling me that it doesn't happen. Why would we bring it up just to be called triggered liars? If you're not a woman, or even a "white knight", you probably don't notice the issue because it doesn't apply to you. It's like when you learn a new word and suddenly start hearing it everywhere. It's not that you've never heard it before, it's that you've never took note of it before.
Edit 2: Also if you're not a girl, you're mathematically less likely to have women in your matches as often. If you're a woman you have exactly a 0% chance of having no females on your team, because you yourself are a female. If you are a man you have a ~35.1% chance of having no females in your game. (16% of the player base is female, so the chance of not having any female players on your team is [(84/100)6 * 100].) So you are statistically less likely to see female harassment in game for simply not being a female. I can't tell you how many times I have greeted my team at the start of a comp match to the response "oMgee is that a GRILL?!"
Edit 3: I can't math today. Actually its a ~41.8% chance of not having a female on your team [(84/100)5 * 100] because if you are a male then there's a 100% chance that one person on your team is male (yourself). So literally you have women on your team almost twice as seldom as a female, and are therefor exposed to ~1/2 the harassment. And the chances of you seeing harassment lower even further if you yourself don't participate in the harassment.
I mean, she is involved in the professional side of OW. I think she understands how the system works. If she thinks people can get better, who am I to have a say in this? Pros in the OWL also grind out in scrims and stuff, Taimou has said you have to put in 60 hours to stay at the top. Effect practices OSU, Aimhero, and QP for hours before queuing for comp.
Hope anyone who can put the effort in to reach the top, does so and ends up being seen in the OWL
Edit: Whoops, thought that was in response to Fran. But most of the point still stands
There are girls in top 100 (fall and out), such as Geguri or Barcode or many more. The thing is OWL is made of people who either:
A) Already grinded out the Tier 1/2 (or other tier) tournament scene with teams that got prove results with them on the roster. Some of the women have been on teams, but have not had proven results. Rox Orcas fell in group stages for example.
B) You have to be top 10 consistently to get noticed. Not Top 100.
If people actually want women in OWL, as woman - or encourage/support the women you know are good enough and want to be in OWL to - compete in the Overwatch Open and in Contenders. Don't be a shithead on the mic.
The reasoning wasn't circular. They didn't want their team to need to start from 0 in team chemistry. They wanted to sign an off tank player and a main tank player with pre-established chemistry. They signed Muma and Coolmatt, who played together on FNRGFE in contenders and proved themselves there. Geguri played in the tournament that became Korean Contenders, but her and her main tank partner did not have the level of success that Muma and Coolmatt did. If Geguri finds a new team for Contenders, has similar success to Coolmatt and Muma, then a team might pick up her and whoever her main tank partner is because they will now have pre-established chemistry.
I can agree with most of your post, butMost top players, god bless 'em, are good at the game but pretty bad at life. They're almost all toxic shitheads, and lots are sexist to boot. They aren't going to play well with women. It's going to be a mess and people are going to get fired for sexual harassment.
What kind of basis do you have for this? Maybe most of the pro players you have personally seen footage of seemed toxic, but in no way does that mean most of them are. The toxic ones are simply the most vocal and get the most publicity. Many of them don't even stream at all so how would you possibly know? And there's even less that you could point as being sexist. The vast majority of them care only about winning, if a team member of theirs happened to have a vagina, I'm sure they would work just as hard to win with them as they do their male teammates.
but you don't hear us talking about it because talking about usually just makes it worse.
Yepppppp and that's where the root of the problem is. You can't talk about it to most people because they use that as more fuel against you because they don't want to grow up.
Compounded by the fact that there's a very good chance the rest of the team is male so the hivemind comes into effect where one person starts it, the others follow...or at least don't say anything back because they don't want to get targeted as well.
Exactly. There are issues, but when people make weak ass and ill-informed articles they are actually hurting the people that they are "trying" to advocate for.
I think the thing that bugs me is that Kotaku it still successful, despite being big ol' turds.
As a chick I definitely wish there was at least one team member that I could identify with. Its not that I can't enjoy watching the sport filled with guys- its just a great deal easier to enjoy when its somebody you can relate to. I mean, plenty of people are picking the teams with players from their state, so its not that different. Also more women play overwatch than any other competitive FPS esport so statistically it seems like at least one girl should be in the top 100. I can tell you I am sure harrassment contributes to some of them probably shying away. I generally keep my mic off while playing, but I've definitely experienced a comment or two.
Getting onto a pro team works the same way it always has, find an open division team and play in all the tournaments that you can and impress as many people as you can. When you have recognition try out for a better team. That's how every player in OWL got their start, there are zero players in OWL without prior professional experience.
You're being overly harsh. The author has at least three female friends. Two whose names they even remember!
Like tbh the first woman put on a pro team is 100% going to have all her credentials called into question and people shit talking coaches/managers for """"white knighting""" and """pandering"""
For a real life example, look no further than Kitty, who played Ana for France during the first world cup. Every time she was on camera the chat just exploded into this kind of bs
In the other subreddit - the competitive overwatch - someone made a good analogy. You can't get angry about a tree not existing, when you are just planting a seed or if it is just a sapling. Right now gender/diversity in gaming is that seed/sapling.
Being angry about it isn't going to make that seed/sapling grow. We have to nurture it and conversations about that are more worth it than the right now.
Isn't that on the players to control themselves (they're not children, after all) instead of excluding them based on their gender?
Thank YOU for putting this all here, you should be someone who writes those articles online since you can actually take your time to research, the guy in the article only talks about one person (Geguri) which he doesn't even bother trying to speak to/interview about the whole thing, nor try to find out what she said about this topic a while ago after all the hackusations.
It makes perfect sense that a professional team wouldn't hire somebody without team experience. An NFL team wouldn't hire a player that hadn't played anything besides neighborhood football, these players need to prove themselves. The contenders league is the perfect place for this to happen. With that said I do think that the toxicity issue towards women on the ladder is ridiculous. Blizzard has created a great game that is accessible to both women and men, something a lot of games fail to do, but the playerbase is ruining the work they put in to attract women gamers. Blizzard really needs to ramp up punishments for toxicity because without action, the part of the playerbase that is actually worth keeping around will be driven away.
Are you implying that they might have sex?! Oh gosh, the horror!
I see Kotaku is still a pile of shit
I can see
This is the most important part of that statement. That you can see.
That's Kotaku for you.
Are you implying that a woman who was into games back in the day wasn't also thought of that way......
And then these teams have the gall to pick the best players for their teams. And then they act like that’s a poor excuse for not having a woman on their team.
I’m 100% sure that if a team thought they would be better if they signed Geguri, then they would have done so. All these teams care about is winning.
Get this gender-baiting Kotaku trash out of here.
I feel those people are actually insane. Or at least live in a different reality
Its because they don't want to say that no girl was simply good enough to be on the team.
Bullshit answers are better for PR than getting flamed for claiming "girls aren't good enough"
Imagine what this sub would say if there were an article with the headline "OWL Team Claims girls aren't good enough to join OWL", honestly probably just wanted to prevent that
Yep. It's systemic and rooted in something much deeper. The shit reasons the coaches and managers gave in the article are a symptom of that.
Since when did people start blaming gender for things. At the end of the day it comes down to who the team thinks has more skill.
How is not hiring players who don't work well with your team somehow a bullshit reason?
If you find a group of five players that work really well together right off the bat, they understand each others playstyles and they work really well together, and then you have a sixth player who doesn't fit into the team at all, you won't hire that sixth player. You'll find someone else.
There are some players that work well together personality wise, and there are some players that do not. Geguri isn't good enough for a team to want to build their roster around her, and she didn't fit into any of the existing rosters. How is that the fault of the organizations?
And look, Geguri is an excellent player and I hope that we see her and more women in OWL. But at the end of the day the OWL is about seeing the absolute best rosters in the world, and any player who can't fit into that picture shouldn't be in there.
Yeah and then what. The article does the same thing. It whines about what is not happening right now instead of discussing more in depth about the issues that have been happening for a while and more importantly talk about solutions. You can dance all you want about that.
These women are actually doing something. They are discussing what the solutions are. They are taking the actions to change things.
This is actually true.
a small correction, they don't think all kinds of stupid shit, they just copy from Social Media trending area.
I'm sure there are plenty of older players capable of having the skills to be in the OWL. We're just too busy actually dealing with careers, relationships, bills, etc, to have the same time dedicated into making that top 500.
If someone wants to pay my mortgage and insurance for the next year I bet I could dedicate the time to making it pro. Same for a lot of other people too.
Sleepy played for Tempo, and literally everyone on Boston has experience, which includes another former Tempo player, DreamKazper.
Its easy to react and get angry, lose sight of the big picture.
One example of social media outrage that stuck out to me is that the Voice Actor of McCree is a DM for a very popular Twitch D&D series. His world is full of a lot of fantasy things and he also tries to be inclusive and make viewers feel welcome. He accidentally used the wrong pronoun for one of his made up characters and was getting harassed via social media for it.
Many wish to help represent those who don't get enough, and we need guidance on occasion. Blind outrage can scare your champions off.
This is a major thing I've discovered, particularly since all the "OWL sausage fest" comments started. 90% of the people commenting about the 'plight' of women in overwatch are coming from men. Sometimes they'll be speaking on behalf of a female friend/lover... But you will rarely hear from any women themselves. I posted a thread soliciting reflection on the matter from women specifically and only got one response from a female, and it was incredibly level headed and by no means implicated some huge conspiracy that's keeping women out of OWL, or even a major problem in the community in general. For as much as I hear about women being harassed (frequently I hear "women are trolled into playing mercy" is a common one), I have not had any first hand experience of this myself. I'm sure it happens, but not on any sort of level a determined female can't easily overcome on her own. In fact I'd say it's sexist and belittling to imply otherwise.
Yeah tbh, the way I see it complaining about there not being a woman in OWL right now is ridiculous. Complaints about women’s barrier to entry in the scene entirely is legitimate. I just wish Kotaku could separate these arguments.
You make it sound as if many many women haven't been playing games (and FPS) for years already before starting overwatch. What are you even doing? -_-
What FPS community do you think is incredibly diverse?
The women that I've met playing Overwatch, Overwatch is one of the first FPS that has appealed to them.
My understanding is that , that where a lot of this criticism has come from. A lot of people see Overwatch as this game that has brought a lot of diverse people into the fold, but then it falls flat when OWL comes around.
If your experience is different, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.
I agree with pretty much everything here except the "kinda bad journalism" bit.
There's not kinda or journalism to it. This is a shitty blog post from a dude with a history of making shitty blog posts on a blog that pretends it's a news source.
I think the whole stacking accounts in Top 500 is bs, but honestly if you can't beat that then you shouldn't be in league. There's ~13 Teams, if we even assume they have 10 ppl to a team that's 130 ppl. That's ~1/5th of Top 500. I'm guessing if you wouldn't have had a chance in the first place if you can't get past a guy that's good enough to do that.
and god forbid they get labeled as a "white knight"
Following the #owl2018 feed was mildly infuriating at times. So many people just trying to make sure no one's having a good time and knows what they think. Was kind of sad, one guy replied to himself about the bigoted evils of Blizzard like thirty times in a row just being angry and having a conversation with no one.
I don't understand these people its like they can't enjoy anything, always looking at race and gender.
I don't look at the team and say "wow its a whole team of Asians, I can't relate/enjoy this tournament now"
So the professional competitive community is separate from the gaming community? Well, how could that be possible? Where did the competitors come from if not the gaming community?
All people from the professional competitive community is also members of the gaming community, but not all members of gaming community are members of the professional competitive community.
Additionally, the 'gaming community' is changing. Rapidly. The growth of non-white, male, and straight gamers are changing the way we may think of what a 'gamer' would be. We have already seen this in Overwatch with the Tracer-pose controversy (however your opinion may be) to Tracer's sexuality confirmed queer to Symmetra confirmed to be on the Autistic spectrum. This inclusion, this representation confirms that dedication Blizzard wants to see in their community; whether or not that can be seen in the OWL.
I can guarantee you that 95% of the professional gaming community don't give a single fuck about lore, sexuality, race or color skin of the characters. That's just "casual" or "aesthetic" stuff that it's complementary but not a priority. Patch changes, nerfs, buffs, heroes mechanics and all that stuff is what is priority in the competitive community. That's the difference between both community, that might have some areas intertwined that we all can agree, but at the end they have different standards and priorities.
Can people stop calling Nathan Grayson a journalist. No real journalist would have written this, which i compare to a shitpost just to rile people up. Itpirate in the top post in these comments did more research than this guy did writing this "article".
Hell he didnt even talk to Geguri wouldn't that be necessary to even claim what you saying is anywhere near true.
Yeah but Blizzard and OWL don't hire the players, the teams do.
It's the old "Entry Level Job" that requires 2 years experience in the field before you can even be considered, but you can't get hired by anyone to get the 2 years.
"No Grills Allowed!"
I'd agree that it's circular if they were also the ones building all of the contenders teams and used the same ideas there. But they aren't. So the prerequisite for getting hired ISN'T something you build after you're hired. Flame basically said one of the pre-requisites for playing tank on the Outlaws is being part of a tank duo with success in Contenders. Unless Contenders teams are using similar logic (which we have no evidence of), then there isn't a problem.
edit: its not like Flame was only willing to hire a tank duo with proven success in OWL.
Watch Over People!...
No, that doesn't sound right. We'll need to workshop this.