INB4 Trump throws him completely under the bus and tries to make Pence the fall guy for the Russia dealings.
Honestly, I can think of worse outcomes. Having Pence this close to the Oval Office doesn't help me sleep at night. I don't think most people really comprehend how bad he is.
Does anyone remember the VP debate? The man lied for like 2 hours straight.
Successfully impeaching the President would likely take down his entire administration and hopefully key GOP leaders in Congress. The 3rd or 4th man in succession will have zero political capital and effectively be a lame duck.
In this scenario the GOP will be on the minority side for at least a decade. Trump literally makes America great again.
Hahahahahaha no, he didn't say that. smirk
And then i woke up. This sounds too good to be true. Hopefully Ryan and Turtle go down with the ship as well.
Agreed. I don't agree with his views one bit. The line of succession to the Presidency is basically the path to destruction considering who is a part of it.
But what's the best case scenario if Trump is removed? I'm honestly not sure there is one.
Through his grinning, Complicit teeth. He's creepy as all hell and a certified liar to boot. Not President material, quite frankly. And he calls his wife "mother" when the children are around. That's kinda fucking weird. What fucking century is the man from?
In the case of the election itself being undermined by a hostile foreign power, having the VP take office after impeachment seems like a poor solution.
Order of succession:
Pence, Paul Ryan, Orrin Hatch, Rex Tillerson, Steve Mnuchin, James Mattis, Jeff Sessions. Giddy up.
I don't think the turtle is implicated, but there's a chance Ryan will go down. This makes me very happy, he's a destructive force.
Geez this might make Pence the and Reince the fall guys.
Turtle prevented Obama from going public with the Russia dossier before the election.
Just a little military coup. Nothing serious.
He didn't prevent Obama. Obama was President and could release it if he liked. He told Obama he would regard it as a political move. This is not illegal.
It was a better choice when the VP was simply the runner up in the presidential election. Party tickets messed up the original intention.
Maddow will go down as a national hero in her own right
The way she builds up to the story with the most obscure references is truly an art
His smirk coupled with his soulless eyes is really unnerving
"Hello and welcome to Wendy's can I take your order?"
"Hearing that story today was the first I heard of it."
"I fully support the decision that President Trump made to ask for General Flynn’s resignation."
"Okay but this is a Wendy's drive-thru, do you want to order food?"
"First I heard of it. And I think it is an affirmation of the President’s decision to ask General Flynn to resign."
"Either order food or leave please we are trying to run a business here."
"First I heard of it."
Pence's denials don't pass the sniff test. Everyone and their mother knew, where was he when they changed the RNC platform to accommodate the Russians? He was there. Where was he when Kislyak was hanging out at the RNC convention taking meetings* with Sessions and a host pro-Trump republicans? He was there.
Hard to imagine that Pence resigns and Donald Trump doesn't try to nominate Ivanka Trump as his replacement. The fact that it sounds so stupid is how you know it would be his plan A.
That's a horrible solution, too. If "your guy" loses, you now have a much more direct incentive to remove the president.
Jared can't be the fall guy, he's not even a real person.
The winner of the popular vote count ends up being president which might reduce some of the backlash from having an official end up as president that no one voted for.
lol are you serious? Maybe if it was Al Gore that this happened to. If this happened to Hillary Clinton, the right would lose their fucking minds. This shitshow would make the emails nonsense look like a minor talking point. Any impeachment is gonna be a huge mess. An impeachment that ends with Hillary as president would be disastrous for everybody
He is going to be Muellered right along with Trump.
I'm pretty sure McConnell is implicated but he isn't in the line of succession anyways.
Like a political Voltron.
They're 1 and 2 on the list.
My dark horse is Kushner though.
Yup. She was the deputy transportation secretary under Bush Sr.
Before she married the turtle.
So while mildly nepotistic, she is conventionally qualified for the position.
Well it worked fine before Congress devolved into sports teams.
This. Pressured? Sure. Prevented? No.
I guess Pence's least favorite commandment is thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Let's not forget that Paul Manafort suggested Mike Pence. I wonder why.
His wife is... or at least would be if she were a "natural born citizen."
Anyway his wife's appointment to Transportation Secy could implicate him
I never said all 17 would be compromised, and there's no way Congress would pass a bill on the fly and "draft" ex-Presidents.
Realistically only Trump, Pence, and Ryan would be the compromised parties in line of succession which would give us Orrin Hatch.
edit: Possible that there are some others further down the line of succession but they would never realistically be close to the Presidency, read: Sessions
Roberts cannot recuse anyone but Roberts. SCOTUS justices are the only ones who can recuse themselves.
The great (well, acceptable) thing about Hatch is that at his age (83), he'd be very unlikely to run in 2020. One thing I fear is that if Trump goes down, whoever takes his place will seem so normal in comparison that he could have a significant advantage in the next election. I mean, look at how many have said that GWB doesn't seem so bad now.
A wide-open field for 2020 would be the best scenario.
Yeah, if this all ended with Hillary in the Oval office, we would have a civil war on our hands.
Going through all that to put Clinton in office, after so many people were infuriated at her, before she's managed to rebuild her popularity, would add fuel to the fire. As much as Democrats need to hold Republicans accountable for Trump, they also need to pursue moderation and broad appeal for an interim president, then use the next election to give an elected president a fresh mandate to fix the remaining damage.
Best case scenario is that Pence is pressured to resign and take the fall for Russia. Another, less extremist Veep is installed. But that doesn't cover the obstruction of justice from Trump so the articles of impeachment pass anyway. Trump refuses to believe he'll be convicted to it goes to the Senate where he's kicked out by a narrow margin. So we have what passes for a moderate Republican take over in the White House and we return to business as usual.
They just selected Mueller, the fact finding hasn't even started yet. There's no way this investigation will finish before 2018. What's more, no one wants it to. With Republican control of the Senate and Congress, impeachment is a fantasy no matter what Mueller comes up with. This whole thing is going to be a millstone around the neck of trump and the Republican party for at least the next year and a half. It's best chance we have of motivating left wing voters and driving away support from Republicans. You want Trump impeached, it's not going to happen without major Democratic wins during 2018.
Edit:I lost track of my point, which was that in order to impeach trump we have to have a democratic majority in at least congress or the senate, in which case the line of succession could change dramatically.
Oh I see. Can we go with Voltron instead?
I wonder when Trump throws Pence under the bus!
Grampa here..don't worry...Agnew used to scare us...things work out...
Sounds like a job for. . . SCOTUS.
Now: if the rumor mills are true (and I'm not saying they are): Roberts has recused Gorsuch. If SCOTUS is as partisan as we all think they are (and a Gorsuch recusal seems to indicate that at least Roberts is not; not on this matter) - we might see a 4-4 split. Yikes.
But I wonder if it is, in fact, in their power to rule how succession goes. It would take some twisted logic, and the right would go absolutely insane.
Another option might be a military coup. They (Mattis), could conclude that there's a clear and present hostile threat to allowing Pence or Ryan to be sworn in, and take over. Then they could call for a special election. Neat and Tidy. If you trust those guys.
The Turtle did plenty of shitty things...but Obama is a big boy that can make his own decisions. If Trump has taught us anything, it's that if the President wants to go public with something, he can.
Don't know if this is a joke, but literally the OP.
You mean like Bush v Gore wasn't partisan?
Out of those four names hatch is the least bad, by a mile.
I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure being McConnell's wife didn't hurt, but she's qualified in her own right for the position.
Such a great attack ad later too.
He apparently literally calls her "mother" like some creepy old sitcom character come to life: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/01/23/does_mike_pence_call_his_wife_mother_a_rolling_st...
I disagree. The best case is the GOP being wracked to the core by allegations and arrests and convictions, and then the general public demanding a special election. The reality is that the GOP, if it does indeed lose the Executive branch AND Congressional leaders to scandal, may not have the public support necessary to lead.
And honestly, the SCOTUS might have the authority to force one, depending on whether or not they want to rule on the validity of the 2016 election. There is no statute of limitations on that stuff; they could disqualify Trump and force the House to select Clinton, Ron Paul, or Colin Powell (the top three EV collectors) as the new President. The House would have no choice but to confirm Clinton, as the other two combined for like four electoral votes (plus I believe one would have to be picked as VP by the Senate).
yeah let's give up on hillary clinton ever being president for forever, please. she's had a long time to try... surely we have other people, i'd take any other democrat besides her. who cares about her political aspirations. she had a big, bumbling part in this whole mess
At the rate he's going, there won't be an America left in a year and a half.
Wait, he calls his wife Mother? Do you mean he calls her that indirectly when speaking to the kids ("Go ask Mother what she wants for dinner"), or does he call her Mother himself when speaking directly to her?
Lions, not vehicles.
There's 17 people in line of succession to The Presidency after The VP. There's no way every one of them would be removed from office with Trump and Pence. Besides which, there's no precedent as to procedure should all 17 be compromised.
I have a theory that in such a case, The Draft could be modified to "re-enlist" a combination of George W Bush, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, George HW Bush and Jimmy Carter to serve as Acting President and Acting Vice-President. As President each served as Commander-In-Chief to the Armed Forces and could possibly be susceptible to a re-enacted Draft. Vice-Presidents would be exempt because they weren't Commander-In-Chief.
Because the two chosen would be the "Acting President" and "Acting VP" they wouldn't be effected by term limits, as they're not truly holding these offices, just keeping an eye on things until a new election.
Totally, heaven forbid anyone get dramatic over current events. Might give Sessions the vapors.
The House will probably elect a new Speaker if 45 and pence and ryan go down.
edit: before impeachment
Absolutely not. There is no provision for a special election. There's nothing about it in the constitution anywhere whatsoever. The SC is not empowered to appoint a president and there is no legal justification for it whatsoever.
Congress could pass a law amending the order of succession, minus the VP, who is constitutionally next in line. After the VP, it is clearly detailed in the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, which is what we are currently operating on (Speaker, Senate Pro Tem, Cabinet). They would have to pass a law that allows for a special election.
Even then... The constitution is pretty clear about when presidential elections are supposed to take place, so I don't think a special election would pass constitutional muster. Furthermore, SCOTUS would be very wary of allowing the judiciary any say whatsoever in picking a replacement.
But, there is a precedent for the House of Representatives choosing a president due to a vote that has no electoral college majority. Anyway, it's insanely complicated and isn't going to be changed at this point.
This Russia story is all over the fucking place. There's shit and poopoo every where man. It's difficult to understand where everything fits together. I can understand why the right-wing people are constantly deflecting and bringing up nonsense because there's just too much information every which way. Their information sources are probably spewing tons of misdirection, so it doesn't help haha
Crippled, hah! With two Republican houses, all they want him to do is stop tweeting and sit quietly signing bills while they hold a treason gun to his head.
Agreed. Don't always agree with her but she's great with starting off her segments with a bit of history and as you said obscurely linking it to whatever the current event is of the day.
There is certainly a LOT more fuckery that Trump or his team could pull. Firing Comey was #3 for them. I'm sure they can keep going all day, until either the stock market, or the GOP tells them it's over.
My only hope right now is that Mensch is right about the RICO case. That would mean that warrants were issued on Tuesday (I think), and they have something like 14 days to act on them. Nothing happened today and Trump flies out for 8 days tomorrow. I don't know if we're supposed to believe this shit is going to go down while Trump is overseas, or what. Seems farfetched.
Trump's a political black hole.
Everyone near him will be sucked into the vortex. Including Pence.
What's a coup between friends?
I don't know, with the whole Ryan talking about Putin paying Trump at a closed door meeting thing makes it seem to me like quite a few Republicans were at least aware of the situation (if true anyway, definitely seems it, but always a chance Trump is just the world's most massive baffoon and not a corrupt puppet) and did nothing and in fact rode that wave of corruption into the white house. I'd be very curious to see if this independent investigation subpoenas the RNC emails to see how far up the party ladder at least had suspicions about Trump. If (probably a big if) they knew and then used it to their advantage it could not only give is a clean sweep impeachment, it could utterly destroy their party.
This is the hill they've chosen to die on. It'll probably have to be a Democrat majority (therefore a new Speaker) to actually impeach Trump.
Of course, taking Trump and Pence out for a Democratic Speaker to assume office would be really shady to a lot of people. Even though, you know, they're both traitors.
Nixon did not commit treason.
The Republicans on the Supreme Court have still dedicated their lives to our country and its laws. Nothing regarding Trump would be a partisan decision.
I have this fear right now that Mueller might get sick or something during the investigation. He's 72 :(
As long as Trump is under the pretense that Pence can pardon a convicted Trump, he will protect him. Once that goes out the window, so does Pence...
Also, how fucking bad must you be at your job as VP elect of the United States if you didn't know this shit? Every single other person in the Trump campaign knew but Mike Pence didn't? He's either completely incompetent at his job or he's just as guilty and lying. I get that he'd rather be seen as incompetent in this case because that's at least legal, it just makes him more a fool.
Why do you think trump picked him? Or rather why manafort picked him given trump wanted Gingrich? Well of course it was to curry evangelicals and hard core conservatives while also giving some semblance of following conventional politics by choosing a governor hopefully to gain some establishment credibility. But presidents also choose their vice presidents to be someone their opposition and usually base wouldnt ever want to actually replace them with. You don't want to pick someone who could take your job who people might like better than you. Pence works on both accounts. He scares the shit out of normal people, and the religious right loves him. But trump fucked up in that many republicans are dumb enough to think pence might do a better job which for them means getting absolutely terrible legislation passed that destroys america.
Im so tired of his shtick though I find it so insulting. He's like a conservative local tv weatherman without the actual charm. His responses and facial expressions are so contrived yet are designed to emote sincerity among the golly gosh group. He's so full of shit. There doesn't seem to be a genuine bone in his body. He is exactly what a public hates about politicians as he's a fake phony douche nozzle. He is nothing but canned responses practiced in front of a mirror. The man makes dan quale look like a genius by comparison.
Ive been saying this all along about him, you know how you could tell he was lying about not knowing about flynn aside from common sense? He threw flynn under the bus and by doing so trump immediately when the story broke. He didnt give trump the option to speak first, he wasnt silent, he didnt say no comment which would be normal protocol for a vice president attempting to protect an administration. No pence said he was lied to right away that flynn never told him about talking about sanctions. Why? To save himself. To distance himself from russia and trump and flynn. You know what kind of person does that? Not someone just learning about it for the first time, no, someone who knew it was true and only wanted to save themselves.
Pence isnt any better than trump. He might not have been involved in talks with the russians or been in those meetings but pence knows a lot more than he says he does, and the supposed man of character has no problem lying directly to the american people for no other reason than to save his own ass. But my guess is pence has been heavily involved in many of the illegal activities at least since trump won the election.
It would only be two of the currently living Presidents. So we'd wind up with W/Clinton or Obama/Carter, Carter/HW, so on and so forth.
It would be a Blind Draft. Almost like picking 2 of 5 names out of a hat.
Pence knew about Flynn early, and Manafort, Putin's EE fixer, pushed hard for Pence over Flynn ...
She was great during the primaries as well. She was one of the first to actually highlight Bernie Sanders. Hell, he was a guest on her show plenty of times before he ever announced he was running. I also remember after he announced he was running, he had that small press conference and others were barely covering it, giving it a quick 30 second mention. That night or a day or two after Rachel did her main segment all about him and his career. This was when others were basically ignoring him. She gave him a lot of coverage even befor a lot of people on Reddit had even heard of him.
McConnell's wife is actually a pretty decent pick for the position.
Still a conflict of interest though. He never should have cast a vote for her.
Anybody who has dealt with serial liars had their alarm bells go off with this guy.
Radio Voice != Truth