EA removed the refund button on their webpage, and now you have to call them and wait to get a refund.

EA removed the refund button on their webpage, and now you have to call them and wait to get a refund.

The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for managing to get a refund.

If you stay on the line for 30 minutes you can earn enough credits to speak with a representative (standard data rates apply)

But you can jump to the front of the line for the one time price of $12.99!

Why the fuck do y'all pre-order?

Their AMA is going to be a blast for their PR team

EDIT: EA's response to the post https://www.reddit.com/sub/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7ctj17/ea_has_removed_the_refund_button_f...

this is just shady to an unprecedented degree.

EA now mails you your refund entirely in pennies, buried deep in a box of dog crap.

The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for successfully retrieving their refund.

One of the worst responses in the game industry by the worst company in the game industry.

I cant wait for them to not answer any of the important questions.

Just a reminder if you are calling in to get a refund, try not to take your rage out on the poor customer service agent, none of this was his/her fault, they are being paid like crap and will honestly try to help you out as best they can.

EDIT: Thanks for the gold! *I mean yes, you should tell customer service that you are very unhappy with the company and the decisions they made that ended up with you requesting a refund, but don't treat them like they were the ones personally responsible for that decision.

Maybe next time people can just not preorder.

Or you can just spend real money to unlock the ability to get a refund.

They most likely won't even answer, they just gonna say: "the line is too busy". Just so they won't lose any money from making the game.

For real. This isn't 1998. It's not like they run out of copies on launch day anymore.

No, i don't think people enjoy any origin games.

I'm betting they will have some employees ask "positive" questions (which will be the only ones answered in an attempt to appear better. I mean clearly this will fail but I imagine it will happen).

*edit: added closing parentheses

Yeah... This is a lawsuit.

Edit: Man, when you say lawsuit, EA calls in the shills.

Nah they cut the amount of credits you get for listening to elevator music by 75%. But you still get enough credits to speak to a rep speaking Swahili

Ubisoft must be smiling right now.

EDIT: You know who you are

Unlock the chance to get the ability to get a refund.

I'm betting they will have some employees ask "positive" questions

Hey EA, why do you love your customers so much and are so good to us?

Most will be too lazy to call again. And EA wins.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand microtransactions. The intent is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of Austrian economics most of the money will go out of a typical gamer’s wallet. There’s also EA’s opportunistic scheming, which is deftly woven into its monetization- its corporate philosophy draws heavily from Hobbesian literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the sense of pride and accomplishment, to realise that they’re not just looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis- they say something deep about challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and OF COURSE attainable via GAMEPLAY. As a consequence people who dislike Star Wars™ Battlefront™ 2 truly ARE armchair developers- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in EA’s existential catchphrase “It's In The Game,” which itself is an ironic reference to Norah McClintock’s young adult novel Truth and Lies. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated nerf herders providing candid feedback in earnest as EA’s avarice unfolds itself on their computer screens. What sheep.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Star Wars™ Battlefront™ 2 tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the twi'leks’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 60,000 credits of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

This just backs up all the claims of just how shitty EA is.

Probably the worst move they could have done in our (the consumers) POV but, those stock holders sure are glad that button's gone.

Is this a victory?

Will they still face the internet for their AMA?

That's when you call your credit card company and issue a chargeback instead.

"Wow, didn't expect such candid questions! It's very hard to be so good to you all, and we are very tired! Luckily, it's easy to support your poor, hard working creators at EA! Try the Appreciation Bundle, which will get you an extra loot box, for only double the price!"

I'll say it again I fear that after all the fun people are having bashing EA, we are going to let this entire issue blow over once again. People outside the community are going to see this as gamers being upset at EA once again over specific features in a game, but that's not what the issue is.

There is a much larger issue here that now affects the entire gaming industry and is only going to get worse and worse, until it gets to the point of needing regulation like we do with slot machines.

Have you ever heard of a "Skinner Box"? 

In science its known as a "Operant conditioning chamber" and is frequently referred to by the name of its creator, the famous behavioral psychologist B.F.Skinner. It has an "operandum" (also called "response lever" in rat based experiments) that when activated feeds some reward for performing the action, conditioning the organism to continually activate the operandum. A rat presses the response lever and gets a tasty treat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

This thing isn't even about Star Wars or first person shooting, the entire game is created to be just a lure to get you into a virtual Skinner Box where you can be mentally rewarded when you do the digital equivalent of hitting a response lever by feeding money into the microtransaction store.

The entire progression system within these types of games is created to manipulate you into gambling for the social reward of being on the top of the charts and having the most prestigious gear. With endless online leaderboards, ranks, achivements and other digital stickers, you see easily see how the other rats have it so much better than you with better hero, and encourage you to pursue the validation that you get from obtaining these. 

It is created to be even more insidious in the way it exploits human psychology, for example its well known within the field of psychology that the most effective form of positive feedback is unpredictable positive feedback. It uses a powerful cognitive quirk described by B.F. Skinner back in the 1950s, what is now called "a variable schedule of rewards". Skinner observed that lab mice responded most voraciously to random rewards. Unlike the mice that received the same treat every time, the mice that received variable rewards seemed to press the lever compulsively.

It uses randomized rewards so that buying a lootbox one time doesn't guarantee the same treat as you might get the next time you press it. By design it incentivizes you to continually put in more money, because you are constantly anticipating that this next time, you just might get a better reward. 

Once you do finally get that reward, the cycle begins again. Everyone gets better at the game over time and acquires better loot, so you must continually respond with more money to keep up. There is a new hero, a new weapon, a new bigger flashier skin, a new way to be better at the game and hence get the pleasure of being known as one of the best. All you need to do is just feed that operandum a few more dollars. After all you spend $5 every day on a latte, why not get some mental pleasure of knowing you're the fucking Darth Vader with a super powerful gun as you tower and destroy all those who don't have your loot yet?

This isn't really about EA or Battlefield II. Everyone from 2K Games to Valve to single player developer gods Rockstar is jumping on this because of how lucrative it is. Hell even CDPR isn't immune from the lootbox syndrome.. It is actually Activision and not EA that is on the forefront of this revolution with its new patented matchmaking system to exploit microtransaction, pairing you with stronger opponents to tempt players to buy microtransaction items that improve your character then pairing you with weaker opponents so you feel a sense of reward enforcement (and your opponent himself feels a desire to pay for microtransaction items).


The system may include a microtransaction engine that arranges matches to influence game-related purchases," according to the patent. "For instance, the microtransaction engine may match a more expert/marquee player with a junior player to encourage the junior player to make game-related purchases of items possessed/used by the marquee player. A junior player may wish to emulate the marquee player by obtaining weapons or other items used by the marquee player.


The real actual issue here that this type of digital Skinner Box is not only legal, but completely unregulated. 

Slots and poker machines are regulated in terms of payoff and their programming so they operate on chance rather than conspiracy. They are not legally allowed for example to be programmed to give you a win after a string of losses, to keep you interested. They have regulated payout ratios as a percentage. Video game companies on the other hand are allowed to exploit your psychological quirks by committing some very anti-consumer practices. And that goes across the gaming industry.

I'll say it again I fear that after all the fun people are having bashing EA, we are going to let this entire issue blow over once again. People outside the community are going to see this as gamers being upset at EA once again over specific features in a game, but that's not what the issue is.

There is a much larger issue here that now affects the entire gaming industry and is only going to get worse and worse, until it gets to the point of needing regulation like we do with slot machines.

Have you ever heard of a "Skinner Box"?

In science its known as a "Operant conditioning chamber" and is frequently referred to by the name of its creator, the famous behavioral psychologist B.F.Skinner. It has an "operandum" (also called "response lever" in rat based experiments) that when activated feeds some reward for performing the action, conditioning the organism to continually activate the operandum. A rat presses the response lever and gets a tasty treat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

This thing isn't even about Star Wars or first person shooting, the entire game is created to be just a lure to get you into a virtual Skinner Box where you can be mentally rewarded when you do the digital equivalent of hitting a response lever by feeding money into the microtransaction store.

The entire progression system within these types of games is created to manipulate you into gambling for the social reward of being on the top of the charts and having the most prestigious gear. With endless online leaderboards, ranks, achivements and other digital stickers, you see easily see how the other rats have it so much better than you with better hero, and encourage you to pursue the validation that you get from obtaining these.

It is created to be even more insidious in the way it exploits human psychology, for example its well known within the field of psychology that the most effective form of positive feedback is unpredictable positive feedback. It uses a powerful cognitive quirk described by B.F. Skinner back in the 1950s, what is now called "a variable schedule of rewards". Skinner observed that lab mice responded most voraciously to random rewards. Unlike the mice that received the same treat every time, the mice that received variable rewards seemed to press the lever compulsively.

It uses randomized rewards so that buying a lootbox one time doesn't guarantee the same treat as you might get the next time you press it. By design it incentivizes you to continually put in more money, because you are constantly anticipating that this next time, you just might get a better reward.

Once you do finally get that reward, the cycle begins again. Everyone gets better at the game over time and acquires better loot, so you must continually respond with more money to keep up. There is a new hero, a new weapon, a new bigger flashier skin, a new way to be better at the game and hence get the pleasure of being known as one of the best. All you need to do is just feed that operandum a few more dollars. After all you spend $5 every day on a latte, why not get some mental pleasure of knowing you're the fucking Darth Vader with a super powerful gun as you tower and destroy all those who don't have your loot yet?

This isn't really about EA or Battlefield II. Everyone from 2K Games to Valve to single player developer gods Rockstar is jumping on this because of how lucrative it is. Hell . It is actually Activision and not EA that is on the forefront of this revolution with its new patented matchmaking system to exploit microtransaction, pairing you with stronger opponents to tempt players to buy microtransaction items that improve your character then pairing you with weaker opponents so you feel a sense of reward enforcement (and your opponent himself feels a desire to pay for microtransaction items).

The system may include a microtransaction engine that arranges matches to influence game-related purchases," according to the patent. "For instance, the microtransaction engine may match a more expert/marquee player with a junior player to encourage the junior player to make game-related purchases of items possessed/used by the marquee player. A junior player may wish to emulate the marquee player by obtaining weapons or other items used by the marquee player.

The real actual issue here that this type of digital Skinner Box is not only legal, but completely unregulated.

Slots and poker machines are regulated in terms of payoff and their programming so they operate on chance rather than conspiracy. They are not legally allowed for example to be programmed to give you a win after a string of losses, to keep you interested. They have regulated payout ratios as a percentage. Video game companies on the other hand are allowed to exploit your psychological quirks by committing some very anti-consumer practices. And that goes across the gaming industry.

You know what I'm sad about? You know some executives are going to blame the guy who posted on Reddit and are going to fire him and make a whole bunch of changes to their social media policy... While not actually fixing their shitty ass games.

I wonder if this is illegal? Would be a great way to pay Comcast.

I called my bank and just had them cancel the payment. Fuck ea

I feel bad for customer service it's not their fault, but they gonna catch hell.

THIS!

Companies get penalized for the chargeback, too. The chargeback Fee varies but generally I know for sure my bank charges the business $40 for chargeback.

Cancel the preorder through your bank or credit card company. They're legitimately denying you your legal recourse by removing the button and not answering the call to support. Anything else they do because you're trying to keep your money for a shit product they haven't delivered yet is retaliation and actionable.

Except for what's right.

Oh God, please!

they say it's more satisfying this way.

Give us a few months, we'll be back to hating on them too

The EA AMA is going to be a snorefest. It will just be lots of customer service friendly non-responses.

"Why did you remove the refund option on your website?"

EA response: "The use of the refund button was not working in a way that delivered a good customer experience. Refunds are still available, and now the process is streamlined through our helpful customer service agents".

They are sheep who create their own problems

And even then, there are 4 stages of refund you can actually get - 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. If you happen to get a 25% refund , you can upgrade it if you are willing to pay more for the chance to get upgrade points.

Exactly. When games were made on cartridges they had to decide how many games to manufacture. Once those sold out or were close to being sold out then they would plan for another order. So having a pre-order made sense because it guaranteed you a copy from the first batch. You could be waiting weeks or months for the second shipments to come in.

Then we switched over to CD's and shortages were a thing of the past. In some cases they make more CD's then expected sales because it's so cheap and they want to guarantee people find copies on release day. And now with digital copies it's practically impossible to have shortages.

So what do publishers do now? They added preorder exclusive content or early access to the game. Shit that you can only get if you preorder the game. The only scenario I can think of that A preorder makes sense is special editions, where the game comes with a ton of extra physical shit. Those are limited runs.

The dog shit part is. But money is money what ever form it is. Edit: yes they can refuse it, Im just saying legal tender is legal tender.

It's gonna be full with pre-drafted standard media responses, no real answers on players' questions and worries and they'll repeatedly call us 'passionate' and 'dedicated' and will promise 'more ongoing changes for our wonderful game'

Together with plenty of downvotes, of course.

I have some free games but I don’t care tbh

This is like trying to cure vomiting by taping your mouth shut.

Never get one in the first place, problem solved.

Oh God, plEAse!

My man

Have you seen their market stock value? It's steadily going down atm. (-1.81% according to marketwatch) They're gonna try to do anything to make it stop.

I fear that if we do not win this battle, we will loose the war on microtransactions.

For any extra 40 credits you can get told to go fuck yourself

That's how you spin a copypasta people, take notes

Yeah if anyone is calling, please be nice to these people. They probably already want to quit, their bosses made their own fuckup everyone else's problem. What a fucking terrible company.

Took sims 4 and sims pets off my Christmas list :(

They might run out!

Or they offered me a hat!

The downvote button will be removed for that AMA.

What are they DOING?? They're just asking for it now.

Justice feeling inaccessible? Why not just buy some? For one EAsy payment of 12.99 you can crack open your very own lawsuit loot box for your chance at justice and feelings of accomplishment. No refunds.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand microtransactions. The intent is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of Austrian economics most of the money will go out of a typical gamer’s wallet. There’s also EA’s opportunistic scheming, which is deftly woven into its monetization- its corporate philosophy draws heavily from Hobbesian literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the sense of pride and accomplishment, to realise that they’re not just looking at average per-player credit earn rates on a daily basis- they say something deep about challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and OF COURSE attainable via GAMEPLAY. As a consequence people who dislike Star Wars™ Battlefront™ 2 truly ARE armchair developers- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in EA’s existential catchphrase “It's In The Game,” which itself is an ironic reference to Norah McClintock’s young adult novel Truth and Lies. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated nerf herders providing candid feedback in earnest as EA’s avarice unfolds itself on their computer screens. What sheep.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Star Wars™ Battlefront™ 2 tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the twi'leks’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 60,000 credits of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

http://help.ea.com/uk/refund this does work

*They will likely terminate your entire origin account if you do this

In EU you have to allow access to get a refund in the same medium I bought the item, If I bought it via web I must have a way get a refund via web

Got halfway through this before I realised it wasn't a joke

If you have any other games on origin you will likely also lose access to those as chargebacks typically lead to account closures, just FYI

The 💰 intent 💰 is 💰 to 💰 provide 💰 players 💰 with 💰 a 💰 sense 💰 of 💰 pride 💰 and 💰 accomplishment 💰 for 💰 unlocking 💰 different 💰 heroes. 💰 As 💰 for 💰 cost, 💰 we 💰 selected 💰 initial 💰 values 💰 based 💰 upon 💰 data 💰 from 💰 the 💰 Open 💰 Beta 💰 and 💰 other 💰 adjustments 💰 made 💰 to 💰 milestone 💰 rewards 💰 before 💰 launch. 💰 Among 💰 other 💰 things, 💰 we're 💰 looking 💰 at 💰 average 💰 per-player 💰 credit 💰 earn 💰 rates 💰 on 💰 a 💰 daily 💰 basis, 💰 and 💰 we'll 💰 be 💰 making 💰 constant 💰 adjustments 💰 to 💰 ensure 💰 that 💰 players 💰 have 💰 challenges 💰 that 💰 are 💰 compelling, 💰 rewarding, 💰 and 💰 of 💰 course 💰 attainable 💰 via 💰 gameplay. We 💰 appreciate 💰 the 💰 candid 💰 feedback, 💰 and 💰 the 💰 passion 💰 the 💰 community 💰 has 💰 put 💰 forth 💰 around 💰 the 💰 current 💰 topics 💰 here 💰 on 💰 Reddit, 💰 our 💰 forums 💰 and 💰 across 💰 numerous 💰 social 💰 media 💰 outlets. Our 💰 team 💰 will 💰 continue 💰 to 💰 make 💰 changes 💰 and 💰 monitor 💰 community 💰 feedback 💰 and 💰 update 💰 everyone 💰 as 💰 soon 💰 and 💰 as 💰 often 💰 as 💰 we 💰 can. 💰

It's sad that you need to have money to access justice like this.

downside is if you have any origin games you do enjoy currently, you'll be banned from them.

This comment needs to be stickied and upvoted more.

I mean I hated them a little less for Assassin's Creed Origins. It's probably my favorite Assassin's Creed now.

this! sooooo much this! As someone who works in customer service in a different industry. it never helps to call just to bitch, many CS agents genuinely want to help and if you come to them with a problem needing to be solved they'll do everything in their power to do so. the worst calls are the ones with no point or no problem to solve just someone calling to bitch.

"For 74.99$ you can refund your 60$ game!"

Is that legal?

Not legal in Britain, I believe there's a law limiting the amount of coins that can be used to pay for something. Someone is well within their rights to turn a penny based payment away.

I'll see if I can find a source later, I may be talking out of my arse.

Their AMA is going to be epic

Did we even stop?

Yes, we need someone stupid and rich enough to sue EA.

I'm guessing EA just has to offer refunds in one way or another for it to be legal, regardless of how difficult it is to get one.

It'll give everyone a sense of pride and accomplishment if they can make it through the waiting.

Meanwhile they're probably playing hot potato with who's gonna pick up the phone until you hang up, just so they wouldn't lose more money.

It's gonna be hard to give real, sincere answers to questions like, "How would you best describe the flavor of Satan's penis?"

Try to go easier on my sides

oH gOd, PlEaSe!

Wait a minute, wrong meme.

If you're in the UK, contact trading standards. Consumers don't have any influence, but they do. The more calls they get, the more they will act.

The 💰 intent 💰 is 💰 to 💰 provide 💰 players 💰 with 💰 a 💰 sense 💰 of 💰 pride 💰 and 💰 accomplishment 💰 for 💰 unlocking 💰 different 💰 heroes. 💰 As 💰 for 💰 cost, 💰 we 💰 selected 💰 initial 💰 values 💰 based 💰 upon 💰 data 💰 from 💰 the 💰 Open 💰 Beta 💰 and 💰 other 💰 adjustments 💰 made 💰 to 💰 milestone 💰 rewards 💰 before 💰 launch. 💰 Among 💰 other 💰 things, 💰 we're 💰 looking 💰 at 💰 average 💰 per-player 💰 credit 💰 earn 💰 rates 💰 on 💰 a 💰 daily 💰 basis, 💰 and 💰 we'll 💰 be 💰 making 💰 constant 💰 adjustments 💰 to 💰 ensure 💰 that 💰 players 💰 have 💰 challenges 💰 that 💰 are 💰 compelling, 💰 rewarding, 💰 and 💰 of 💰 course 💰 attainable 💰 via 💰 gameplay. We 💰 appreciate 💰 the 💰 candid 💰 feedback, 💰 and 💰 the 💰 passion 💰 the 💰 community 💰 has 💰 put 💰 forth 💰 around 💰 the 💰 current 💰 topics 💰 here 💰 on 💰 Reddit, 💰 our 💰 forums 💰 and 💰 across 💰 numerous 💰 social 💰 media 💰 outlets. Our 💰 team 💰 will 💰 continue 💰 to 💰 make 💰 changes 💰 and 💰 monitor 💰 community 💰 feedback 💰 and 💰 update 💰 everyone 💰 as 💰 soon 💰 and 💰 as 💰 often 💰 as 💰 we 💰 can. 💰 💰

And that's retaliatory behavior, which is actionable in court. They've got a responsibility to provide you with recourse for bad product; if they deny that recourse, which they're doing already by removing the system that exists for every other game to be cancelled, they're literally stealing from you.

If you see anything like this happening to you, document document document. Take screenshots, write a timeline, keep your logs and attempts to contact them. You'll be providing the information needed to take them to court and fuck them the way they're trying to fuck millions of customers right now. Just because they're a corporate entity doesn't mean they get to ignore and abuse the law; they are depending on enough people not being able to get the refund before release, because at that point they can claim they "provided" the game that was purchased, even with all the bullshit that wasn't included at the time of the preorder that is now a known part of the game.

Can you do their AMA instead? It'll probably be better if you do it.

If you are unable to find the refund button on Origin, here is a solution without talking to customer support https://www.reddit.com/sub/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cuxm0/if_you_are_unable_to_find_the_refu...

The market is full of idiots who rewards actions like this with copious amounts of cash. Nothing will change, mark my words. EA will be fine and continue to kill more and more franchises for their greed.

edit: lol my fucking Origin account got hacked by some Persian dick head, and there is no way to get in contact with EA outside calling them during this shit storm. Fuck EA even more now.

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force. As if a million chargebacks were crying out, and then suddenly silenced."

It's a bit dishonest to say that there's no more shortages since the switch to CDs. I work at a games store and we are frequently short on big releases if the company misread the demand.

Digital pre-orders are fucking retarded though

Honestly, between AC: Origins and Rainbow 6: Siege, while not perfect games by any means, have restored some faith in Ubisoft. At least for RS6, they actively participate in the Reddit and respond well to criticisms, bugs, and cheaters.

What's right would be to make a public announcement right now saying that, due to recent backlash, they're going to remove a lot of the P2W from the game by removing several of the lootboxes and making the main characters playable at the start.

Something like that really could stop the refunds, but they'd potentially make less money off the game from people who do buy it. I can't see EA doing it really, but if the refunds are really coming that hard, they should.

... is this true?

https://www.reddit.com/sub/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cuxm0/if_you_are_unable_to_find_the_refu...

Here's how you can refund it without calling.

EA is putting dog shit in a paper bag, lighting it on fire, and putting it on their own doorstep at this stage...

Tbh there's really no way to win this. And microtransactions won't go anywhere.

Despite everyone(most of the people) hating them, they've proven to be so profitable that the companies are gonna keep putting them in games even though most of the community won't like it.

They don't really care about that. They care about money and microtransactions proved to be the most profitable, otherwise they wouldn't be having them.

And they will keep doing the same thing as long as there's that small percentage of people pouring in shit tons of money. Because they're the reason this whole thing exists and it's gotten to this point.

But like I said, I honestly doubt that's going anywhere anytime soon.

Unless you spend 20000 credits to unlock the downvote button. Credits can be purchased for real money or earned with 120 hours gameplay.

Origins, and rainbow six siege as well. ubisoft has been pretty good lately right?

Salty, smokey, and a hint of ghost pepper?

Yes, it was literally three clicks and you got a refund yesterday.

Hey EA, last summer I was homeless, dying of cancer, and my socks were wet. Do you remember that time you bought me a house, cured my cancer, and gave me a new pair of dry socks? I remember because it was totally you when that absolutely happened. Narwhal bacon anybody?

Or you can stay on hold for $1.99 per minute, and bask in your own accomplishment!

/sub/iamverybadass

Was there ever a refund button?