The Virginia senator argued that the problem will continue to persist in the congressional hallways if information about sexual misconduct continues to be held behind lock and key.
Have to say I agree. Public officials’ conduct while representing the people should be public record (unless the victim wants to keep it under wraps).
Of course this should be made public!
Please yes! Our tax dollars are paying for these harassers to settle out of court.
It should be made public. And the victims shouldn't have to sign fucking NDA to protect the congressional members. The whole process is meant to fuck the victim.
The details don't need to be public record, I'll settle for simply the number of verified complaints.
Edit: since this seems to be a common question, I would say that in my opinion the complaints would need to be verified to not be spurious (enough details given to start an investigation)
We pay for their misconduct, so obviously we should be made aware of it
The calls come after the Office of Compliance released data that showed over $17 million in taxpayer dollars went towards paying settlements involving Capitol Hill employees, which include a range of workplace violations like allegations of sexual harassment and racial discrimination.
They're settling with taxpayer money?
Fuck these people.
I want some details. Hell, even a far reaching case like Roe v Wade used pseudonyms.
Yes it has to be pseudonyms, because as we have seen the Right private troll army and possibly even Russian agents will literally call them or spur others to call around the clock with death, sexual assault and rape threats. They will not be able to go online without constant harassment using their real names and will even be stalked in real life.
Heck even Trump's attorney will join in with the threats.
A good and positive move, but also a stroke of political genius.
Any kind of change for this will require a rules change vote, Congress Reps and Senators who know that they were part of this are not going to want their dirty laundry aired and will spend what ever political capital that they have to squash this.
If the vote doesn't happen it becomes an easy lift for Democrats in 2018 to turn this into a, "Republicans are disrespecting women by not allowing this to come to the floor. They know what they have done, we want them held accountable. This November it is going to be up to you to hold them accountable."
Maybe they should just leak them all instead.
I'm on the fence about this, actually. Settlements? Sure, no brainer. But claims? That has the potential to get weaponized real fast. There needs to be some standard of evidence, which, I know, is tricky with these cases. If there's some process for preventing misuse it would be a great thing.
But we gotta blame tax waste on the poor!
You would think that... by I am convinced that among Republican women most suffer from some form of Stockholm Syndrome the way that they accept the shit that they do with that locked smile and thousand yard stare.
This is a good point. Very good point. What a waste of money.. if you're accused it should be up to the public official to defend themselves, not us!
God this country is so fucked up.
Settlements regarding matters of sexual harrassment shouldn't be legally able to have NDA's at all, whether your a member of Congress, a movie executive, or a washed up, bloated, money laundering, real estate con-man. That's literally exerting power over someone to keep them silent and your own misdeeds covered up. And being coerced into silence by power is partly how we got into all this mess in the first place.
This 100%. Why was the most senior Dem the only one leaked?
I know this isn't the point, but Tim Kaine was damn near elected VP last year. We know who he is, so putting "Dem" in the title makes it seems like it's some random nobody Senator with a crazy idea.
Given that tax payer money was used to "pay for silence" we as citizens have a right to know the facts behind the payoffs
Because Roger Stone dug this shit up and released it.
You're kidding yourself if you think it already hasn't. Franken resigning is the dawn of a new era of weaponized sexual misconduct claims.
I'd bet that roger stone is sitting somewhere right now with a group of strategists planning a coordinated 2018 character assassination program for select state and national elections.
I'm not saying that what Franken did isn't wrong. The problem is that 50 percent of the country seems to think that sexual misconduct is only bad political capital, to be used against the opposing team.
The dems standing up and taking the high road is meaningless in this moment, politically. The GOP is officially endorsing a man that likes 14 year old girls, they're collectively sending the message that they do not give one shit about the issue. This effectively opens the dems up to a wide range of attacks that gop candidates are invulnerable to.
It is good that the democratic party is continuing discourse and opening the issue up, but it is not a politically good move, theyre getting played by top GOP strategists.
Yup. Abuse of power. Mueller cant solve this but only help. The rest of us need to hold these people accountable.
There was an article posted here the other day about alt-right women being surprised that alt-right men were sexist. I am beginning to think all republican women are like this.
it would also be really hard for any GOP Female senator to vote 'no' on this
The details don't need to be public record, I'll settle for simply the number of verified complaints.
Along with the amount of tax payer money paid for each congress person from the hush fund that has been reported to exist for sexual harassment complaints.
All this talk of poor people makes me want to give more tax breaks to the wealthy.
i've long said that married Republican men have the benefit of two votes in every election
Just use Jane/John Doe.
There's good reason for that though. If we forced them to pay for their own legal defense, wealthy people could just constantly sue politicians until they're broke.
After project veritas I feel the right will find women willing to Lie about this stuff. And it seems the number of allegations matter than the credibility of them all. And they won’t waste their time with non right wing media
Fiat justitia ruat cælum
No one would settle then.
Mmm yeah, trickle down all over my face.
While I definitely agree, just watch 100 democrats in the senate and congress resign and 0 republicans.
Well hold up. sexual harassment claims and actual cases are different. There is a truth to there being some bad shit. but really, every one of them, WHO IS PROVEN GUILTY, should resign. I understand that the popular thing to do here, is to believe the accuser, but that's a very dangerous line of thinking if we are extending this out from the cases that have risen to public infamy, to ALL cases possible. If you want everyone ACCUSED to resign, what's to stop anyone from filing false accusations just to make things hell for whatever Senator you don't agree with?
EDIT: to be clear I am not certain what the full criteria is for a sexual harassment claim is in this case and I am assuming you can do it without a police report or any sort of evidence checking.
Dems who are accused will resign.
Republicans who are accused will shrug and then write laws that further erode the civil rights of the people you're trying to protect.
As opposed to the system we have now, where they just buy their elections outright?
While I get your point, this would be a terrible environment for the victim if the accusations are against people in power. They have vastly more resources and money to make the case nearly unwinnable for the victim. In the face of months if not years of legal fees and stress many would just walk away if the chance of winning was tiny.
The names would be in the record. He is saying that publicly the names should be replaced with John/Jane doe so the victim won’t be harassed.
That's fine, let the accusers take it to court and let the testimony be a matter of public record like other assaults and serious crimes. If settlements for these accusations drop, we'll hopefully see a drop in the (small amount, but still statistically relevant) people making accusations hoping specifically for a big cash grab.
All of them, hate to say it, but if we're serious about weeding out this problem at it's root, this is it. The devil is always in the details.
If you don't think democrats are thinking of this in a political light you are naive. They looked at the poll numbers stating that over 50% disapproved of how they handled the case with only 20% approving. That is bettter than republicans (60 disapprove) but not good enough. Democrats are running on rooting out sexual misconduct in 2018 and if that means they had to cut Franken loose, that's a cheap price they have to pay. They know that they only need a few percentages of women (or others) deciding they rather be with the party that fights against sexual misconduct rather than continuing support of a party that stands behind a pedophile. With dems like Conyers and Franken around the "both sides" narrative actually held weight. It doesn't anymore.
verified in that the police and/or enforcement have declared it credible enough to pursue
I'm going to mention it here because people forget: this isn't about just simply believing every accusation to be true without due process, it's about taking every accusation seriously with the seriousness it deserves like crimes of stealing or physical abuse or whatever. Take it seriously, that's all anyone asks.
If it's credible enough to be taken seriously, which it usually is, then it should be included
The Dems strategy on this is fucking insane. They are full on letting their players be sacrificed as a challenge to not only the GOP members of Congress, but also the voters. This could be an incredible move, or just blow up in their face because Repubs are using the Joe Paterno method of handling things.
I think everyone should be in favor of that, though obviously the House should also do the same thing.
The process now goes a little further than some shade of an unsubstantiated rumor. From an NPR interview of Democratic Representative Jackie Speier:
SPEIER: Right. But the most significant part of the legislation is the second bill, which actually would reform the Office of Compliance 'cause right now, there's no reason why a victim would come to that office because they've got to go through 30 days of legal counseling and then mandatory mediation. And then they've got to sign a mandatory nondisclosure agreement in many cases. And then they've got to go through a 30-day cooling-off period. All the while, they are still working in that office that is probably a hostile work environment.
That's bad too.
Ultimately, we just need to take money out of politics and campaigns. Don't let the wealthy dictate who sinks and who swims.
They already have.
The right is abusing and is going to continue to abuse the metoo movement until it means nothing, and they can go back to doing what they always do.
Anytime someone points out "Only Republicans lie", they play the victims while robbing us blind.
You're assuming just women. Republicans in Congress have a history of turning out to be self-loathing gays, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few male victims in there too.
Thought that might not play as well on the ads.
Biden is up to be slaughtered- they've already started. A big problem here is that 'inappropriate' is actually personal. What I might find no offense with (a kiss on the lips) will really bother someone else. A hug is great with most, too much for others. A squeeze of the waist while taking a photo, wouldn't bother me at all. A 'joke' is even more based on the relationship between parties and very subjective.
Trying to engage in sex acts with a 14 yr old while being a 32 yr old DA- not subjective, it's illegal.
Forcing your employee to perform sex acts to keep their employment- not subjective, it's illegal (rape through coercion).
Physically assaulting and raping your wife- not subjective, it's illegal.
Not w- should we be discussing what is and isn't appropriate? Of course! We should also be discussing how we can stand up for ourselves and set clear lines, while also understanding that these are personal boundaries and not universal. Some families are much more touchy/ feely than others. We need to also be realistic that if your (as an example) squishing into a subway car, parts of your body will be touched by other people and you need to differentiate between an unwanted touch and a sexual assault.
Yeah, she was surprised that her Twitter was getting blown up by alt right males telling her to stop trying to play politics and pop out some white babies. Haaaaaa.
Mueller actually can, if the investigation turns to Rohrabacher
I don't think the claims should be released, they may have been found to be baseless. I want the hush money records. Who was tax payer money used to protect from accusations?
There's a fine line; but, making it known will give some victims the realization that they're not alone. Look at what happened with Moore's victims. None came forward until that first one did and she helped the others realize they weren't alone and weren't the only one.
I agree but not fully. All claims that went through the judiciary system or were settled outside should be public (especially if public money is involved in any way). Otherwise I can just pay a bunch of people to make accusations and a representative looks bad without any fault.
I shouldn't have laughed but I did
Yeah, let's take the low road since Republicans do! People always say that Dems and Republicans are the same, we should make that happen!
Honest question. Why do you agree? I wouldn't want an unsubstantiated rumor about myself being a sexual predator (spoiler: I'm not) getting leaked and possibly ruining my life / job / opportunities. Why should we let a system with this much potential abuse fuck up our political representation?
I think we should respect both the accused & accusers at least until it is proven one way or the other.
There should really be a way to identify if the same person is making complaints against multiple people.
Settled claims ARE NOT PROOF OF GUILT. If they were, Clinton wouldn't have served out his 8 years and Hillary would have been FAR FAR away from running in 2016.
Should we say that settled claims are stronger evidence than a simple accusation? In my opinion, absolutely. But it's still not proof.
Yeah, I recognized him in the thumbnail and got confused about why the title was just "Dem." When I read "Dem," I assume it's someone brand new trying to make a name for themselves.
Also, hello, person I presume is a fellow Marylander.
I honestly forgot he existed.
I want people to resign because they used my tax dollars to pay off sexual assault/harassment claims. Yes, every one, no exceptions.
It will blow up in their faces, much like every high-road strategy they have attempted before.
It should be and treated like it should...a crime.
Oh are these SETTLED claims? crap then yeah. put that shit out in public asap.
again I apologize. I've been reading too many stories about sexual harassment claims this morning
Obedience to a husband or to male leadership in general is a common thread in conservative cultures. It doesn't extend to everyone, but some women live their whole lives hearing how it's proper for them to defer to the decisions of men. They accept it like so many other traditions people accept without question.
You sound like you have some people on your team about whom you're afraid. Why the fuck not? These are public servants using your tax money (aka, labor) to hide their abuses.
Release it all. Redact anyone involved other than the servants.
Remember, this bears relevance to blackmail and opportunities to coerce corruption.
If they resist release, we should be more concerned as the problem may be more pervasive than guessed.
There's an analogy with the fact that, as a tradition protecting political free speech, libel and slander have a different standard for elected officials.
How about lobbying information be public as well. Issues with lobbying are only going to exist while it remains hidden from public scrutiny!
Jane doe1 Jane doe2 And so on
You want people to resign because claims were made against them?
Bingo. Well put.
*Some republican husbands allow their wife to have opposing opinions
Everything politicians do is political. At least the Dems are doing the right thing (now) in the name of politics. Sasse is betting on Republicans losing on this stuff big time and is going for the long game. Flake is probably angling for a University presidency or some other position that will require some separation from the current Republican party.
Yes our elected officials should not be above the law they should be the shining example of it.
I think they should only be released if someone was reprimanded or a settlement was paid. Just releasing harassment claims seem dumb and very manipulative
And then every single one of them, regardless of party, needs to resign.
He resigned because he became politically toxic and got swept up in the left's desire to appear better than the right. They want to use it against Trump/Moore. Truth has no bearing on that whatsoever.
3 weak or misleading claims of mild indiscretion should not sink a career. (I'm intentionally ignoring the bullshit online anonymous accusations, everyone else should too. Honestly, fuck anyone even giving them a second of airtime. Networks bringing them up can go fuck themselves.)
These are settlements not attorney's cost. Filing fake suits is against the law.
He's referencing Conyers in the House, not Franken in the Senate
I love his popcorn.
Easy... Sen. John Smith has had 6 complaints against him. Victim A accused of a grope. Victim B accused of verbal harassment, etc...
Well, if there is a claim made against them by an employee the employer generally pays for the defense. So, they would naturally use those funds. And, often it is cheaper to settle than to fight claims; false claims are no exception to this.
Evidence of a settlement isn't evidence of wrongdoing and doesn't necessitate a removal or resignation. Each case should be considered individually. Calling for blood across the board is myopic and unreasonable, not to mention unjust.
As they should. YOU assholes in Congress work for US. Quit trying to hide your bullshit or pay the fucking consequences.
Do you see this being a widespread problem?
Maybe generally but in the last election my buddy voted Trump, and his wife went Hillary. He's a big Texan Repub too. Some women have brains of their own.
The allegations against Franken were weaponized by the same thing that weaponizes them in a courtroom: volume, consistency, contemporaneous action and corroboration of that contemporaneous action, and the resulting implausibility of it all being a lie.
These are seven allegations from six news sources and 15-20 friends and family members saying "yes, she told me about this when it happened." to discount them, you have to believe that these women all hatched conspiracies 10-15 years ago to someday accuse Al Franken of sexual assault and they decided to meticulously lay the groundwork and establish a timeline by telling their families and friends. Or you have to believe that all of these people, 6 accusers and 15-20 friends and family members, are lying. That's implausible. It's impossible to replicate, even by the big, bad boogeyman Roger Stone. And that's why Franken is gone.
Settling is not the same thing as being guilty. Court fees are very expensive for both sides, and if guilt can't be proven or disproven, nobody wins.
It's an unfortunate side effect of how the courts work, not an admission of guilt.
Good. Go get them all. Both parties
Hey if my credit report and drug test are open for all businesses to see I don't see why they can't be held to the same standard. Running the country and all.
What does "verified" mean?
Any definition of "verified" that's reasonable should mean the ethics committee automatically expels them.
Yup, that or some other pseudonym.
Settling to me is as good as saying you're guilty. You're just paying to avoid the investigation.
But in general, yes, you should not be guilty before getting an investigation.
That's what people don't understand. These accusers, in Franken's case, in Moore's case, in fucking Trump's case all told people about it at the time. That destroys any claim that it is made up.
We can't let them use their power to brush their misdeeds under the rug with NDA's OR drawn out court cases. What kind of solution could come close to leveling the playing field while assuring the rights of both accusers and the accused?
broken down by party.
To me, it's distracting when framed that way...as if it's a point system to prove which party is of the lesser morality. There are already so many other ways to justify that. Making it a right vs. left topic only encourages the right to justify their sins with more evangelical whataboutism. Both sides need to set the partisanship aside and clean house consistently on this.