Debt to GDP Ratio in European Countries

Debt to GDP Ratio in European Countries

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War.

Eurozone countries range from 9.3% to 180%. That's a horrible fiscal policy.

It matters a big deal who you owe to and in what currency. Japan has a debt of 250% of the GDP. Yet you don't see their economy collapsing. Because the vast majority of their debt is nominated in their national currency and it is held by the Bank of Japan. And who is in charge of the national currency of Japan? You guessed it right - the Bank of Japan.

The Greek on the other hand owed their money in euro, a currency that they have no power over and it was also held by foreign actors. So they were screwed.

*Hey look we’re first in someth- never mind. *

Not sure if number is good or bad for the economy in Bulgaria. Obviously more money are needed for reforms.

A friend of mine who is doing a PhD in economics once told me that being in debt is not so bad, it shows that you have credibility. It was before the Greek crisis though. Personally I have no idea, but since our economy is fucked quite well, I don't think it means a lot.

What's going on with Ukraine? The only ex-soviet republic with such a high ratio.

We win this time, Finland.

Yes but it's not like that rate is going to grow anymore for Greece. You will see a harmonization of this in a free decades.

Hopefully, or we're all seriously fucked.

The range is so wide because Europe does not have a united or at least common-minded fiscal policy.

The biggest debt growth was in 2008-2014. 

War and uncertainty that came with it hit GDP hard though. There was almost 2x drop.

The biggest debt growth was in .

War and uncertainty that came with it hit GDP hard though. There was almost 2x drop.

It's good. Bulgaria is growing and because it has low debt it's consider saver country to invest, as the chance of bankruptcy is lower.

Japan also spends it's money on made in Japan, Greece spent it on made in Germany.

This is how economic development starts. You begin with cheap production, then you make investments to improve productivity because you save money doing so, and the improved productivity lets wages rise. Central Europe (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia) was also mainly cheap labor 15 years ago, but has come a long way since.

You misinterpret this, we are the ones in front of you!

don't worry, there are more important things to worry about such as the name Macedonia or how to recapture Constantinople.

Going by this map, being invaded by Russia doesnt look that bad. Obvious /s

Russia's economy isn't collapsing though, especially as oil prices recovered.

San Marino is in red but has no public debt at all!

Must say I appreciate this seemingly out-of-nowhere rivalry between the two states.

We should find our own artificial rival for the purpose of statistics! What say you, despicable Czechs?

Problem is last 5 years, good or bad, any reform proposal has been met with public roar and then government back stepping. Therefore there has been nearly nothing in terms of reforms. Just small adjustments here and there.

Luckily Finland has a very active entrepreneurship culture, that prevents young people from being jobless forever and pushes them to "can't find job, invent a job" area. Keeps things going on.

What say you, despicable Czechs?

Seriously out of all countries in Europe, you pick us?

I thought we were friends :(

It's good. The economy is in an upward cycle right now so having an additional deficit would be counterproductive, if we were to stick to Keynesian logic.

And most importantly, we're not borrowing from our children's taxes.

African levels of corruption. And war too.

Ukraine was actually richer than Poland in 1991.

At first glance it looks like Ireland has made a dramatic recovery, as we were at almost 120% in 2012.

The total value of Ireland's debt has stayed almost stagnant at roughly €200bn, while our GDP has soared due in large part to foreign companies reporting their income through Ireland for tax purposes.

I'm not really sure what that means for Ireland's future, but it worries me nonetheless.

The cost of servicing the debt eats up half of the tax revenues in Japan, the current state of affairs isn't exactly ideal.

And which Greek banks or trust funds would be willing to invest in their nation's debt? Japan is a very special case, people there do actually have trust in their state.

Not really. Mostly they are in debt to the upper strata of their own populations.

It's getting wrecked, and war's probably not even their biggest problem. IMF and European credit lines exist have to be paid, while the assets that could produce some output are being privatized in a manner that faintly reminds of the nineties in Russia.

Oh, and the separatist regions used to comprise a large chunk of their industry.

Maybe they have negative GDP? Like instead of going to work, people get up in the morning and go trash the place? /s

Growth in gdp is the classic way to reduce debt to gdp.

Yes, ireland’s gdp is distorted by multinational finance operations going through Ireland. The multinational jobs are real and should contribute to Irelands gdp but swapping billions through Ireland without attached jobs isn't real gdp activity. If you strip that part out Ireland's debt to adjusted gdp is way worse.

Finland's Debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to decline in future as long as the economy keeps growing, things would be even better if the country managed to do real reforms.

Post war Germany had to make a ton of debt and the reunification was also not cheap. For a few years Germany is not making any debt and is even making some money, right now 541 € per seconds.

At least 180.0 hotness-to-surface area ratio.

I said that because you wrote, "that's a horrible fiscal policy" which sounds like the countries have a common policy.

Ukraine was actually richer than Poland in 1991.

Ukraine is actually the only post-USSR country which is now poorer then it was in the USSR 30 years ago...

Edit:

Looks like I was wrong, there are more countries like that.

Georgia already overtook their USSR GDP per capita PPP index in 2013

Kyrgyzstan has almost cough up as of 2016 their GDP per capita PPP is at 95% of their 1989 GDP per capita PPP

Moldova is at 77%

Tajikistan is at 76%

And Ukraine is lagging behind with 73%

Why yes, we are! This is why we must statistically destroy you for no other reason than because we love you so much!

I mean the only other similar valid candidate are the Irish. It is apparently said that Polish are literally better at being Irish than Irish people. Should we go for the Irish instead? Who would you take then?

Abnormally low GDP. Ukraines external debt is the same as Romanias, but they have a super low GDP, so their ratio looks bad.

Fuck my life.

He's painting a really negative picture. If anything, foreign companies are the ones paying close-to-EU-average salaries here. Manufacturing is growing more and more each year, and the low-value-added industries such as textiles are moving out.

Also investments and growth in sectors like IT are huge, and average net wages in that sector are higher than in some poorer Western countries like Spain and Portugal.

People obsess over public debt but private debt is just as important, maybe even more so.

Consider: in the run-up to the 2008 GFC, both Ireland and Spain ran up huge private debts but as long as it didn't show on the government books, everyone assumed things were fine. While having low debt didn't protect you against the initial shock, countries with prudent policies like Germany weathered the crisis far better. Ireland has done well, admittedly, since the crisis but in many ways their performance is an outlier.

The US housing bubble was also fuelled by household debt booms. China is now gorging on private debt, primarily to corporations, which is a big worry.

Point is, the lesson is that only obsessing over public debt is unproductive and far too limited.

A better map would be total debt to GDP. Public + Private debt.

While this is indeed hopefully true for Greece, it doesn't mean the rates will harmonize, but will just be kept at bay, at some certain level before the entire Eurozone reacts to it.

Or two uninhabited islets. I swear, I'll get to the islands by midnight and drop off a sheep on each. Just to make memes of the both of us and the inevitable crisis that'll surely happen. -.-

Most of the westerners owe money to other westerners tho, right? Soit works like that... for examplr if Spain is in debt to Germany, Germany is in debt to UK and UK is in debt to Spain, right?

Too bad that most of the investment is focused on cheap labor, with little gain for Bulgaria due to the low taxes.

Debt itself is not inherently bad, but debt levels that are on a explosive and unaffordable path can become dangerous and lead to Greece like situations, it really does depend on the country and a multitude of other variables. There is no specific cutoff point that is dangerous as reinhart and rogoffs research was shown to have errors.

You skipped economics 101.

Also Russia is still in a recession. Not something you want to move to for economic improvement.

Unless comming from Ukraine or smth.

Are you hot?

Now you know how we feel.

so this is that kinky stuff you greeks call geometry, right?

Hey Greece, ever considered to form a union with turkey? You could raise their ratio to 105 while lowering yours.

/s

If you read on the bottom of the page here on the Danish national banks page it says that "The gross general government debt (EMU debt) is often used in international comparisons of sovereign debt.....At the end of 2016, Denmark's EMU debt amounted to 38 per cent of GDP according to Eurostat."

http://www.nationalbanken.dk/en/governmentdebt/centralgovernment_debt/Pages/default.aspx

So 35% seems pretty reasonable if it's end of 2017 numbers.

Seriously though. I know we in this sub are mostly warm towards Europe and all the states already but I love how Netherlands and Finland, countries that outside of being in Europe do not share much of anything in common, are able to find a niche joke and relate with each other, if only thru this stupid joke. So, even if some of my countrymen have already started to murmur and complain about this one I'll happily continue the tradition. It nudges us closer one overused meme at a time.

Not collapsing but still in technical recession

The GDP dropped a bunch in 2014-2015, thus the ratio. War was just part of the reason.

And here is the fun fact, we had to take austerity measures because we had 120%

not really you had to take austerity measures because you were not able to service your debt.

You had your chance

Yeah, I guess because the reforms Kokoomus and Keskusta come up with start with ideas such as Let's cut from the poor and Let's outsource public services to companies in tax havens.

I guess they could turbocharge the Finnish economy, but don't sound too good.

Lol this is exactly the case in Cyprus at 104,5

Nah, there's also Moldova and several Central Asian countries (Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan) who also share the fate.

Debt isn't bad if you can pay it off. If you look at Spain and France, the percentage is very close but France isn't considered as risky as Spain.

As countries grow, their debt will represent less and less of their GDP and these numbers will come closer together.

I didn't say that it was ideal, I just meant to illustrate that the raw number of debt-to-GDP can mean different things depending on the overall context.

It doesn't have to. As long as oil prices are above 60 USD, the Russian budget will have a surplus. I mean, I don't see the Russian economy collapsing any more than it has. The shock has already happened, the ruble is devalued compared to 4 years ago. It's not like anything else can be expected to happen.

Nonono. Tajikistan, Moldova, Georgia are poorer than respective SSRs

The important thing is not who holds the bonds, but who controls the currency those bonds are held in.

If the UK owes £1tn to someone, and everything goes tits up, it can get the governor of the BoE to issue £1tn of new money and pay with that. It devalues the currency, but the debt is paid, legally speaking.

If, however you do what Argentina did and borrow in a currency you don't control, there's no way out of the debt, and you end up not being able to have a presidential plane because if you did, debt collectors would seize it the minute it landed outside your country.

Not really how this stuff works. The total value of debt in the world will necessarily be greater than the total value of world's assets. In other words, public + private debt must be greater than the value of all assets. If you don't achieve this inequality through public debt, it will necessarily be achieved through private debt. This is not necessarily the case for any given country, but in the aggregate it will always be true. This means that if every country was to have zero public debt, the private debt burden would be immense which would be way worse. There are also a lot of reasons why you would want to borrow money. For example, if you could borrow money which would have a 3% annual ROI in your economy (e.g. through building infrastructure), and the interest rate is less than 1%, it makes a huge amount of sense to borrow this money.

Wow, Russia's is that low? I guess at least they won't be debt slaves when their economy finally colapses

I think this is by far the most difficult problem to solve for the EU and all the states in it: If you have a common currency but completely different fiscal policies problems are bound to happen.