Cohen may not be attorney enough for attorney-client privilege

Cohen may not be attorney enough for attorney-client privilege

Hannity doesn't understand that by denying that Cohen was his attorney he's waiving confidentiality.

He may have panicked and tried to do just something.

It's quite possible the FBI already knew he was a client based on whatever they found during the months they've been investigating Cohen.

Cohen may have realized he was boxed in and had to decide between the truth, lying (perjury), or silence (contempt of court).

Some stuff learned/confirmed for me:

Special master would be unusual, given that there are so few actual clients of Cohen and little applicable precedent.

Having a lawyer in the room does not infer confer or imply attorney-client privilege and cannot be used as a "shield", typically attempted in cases involving organized crime families.

Cohen doesn't do much lawyering; a law degree does not mean everything you do is deemed to be lawyer's work product. This, combined with Cohen's modus operandi may weaken some claims of attorney-client priviledge.

informed source; opinion from a former AUSA, USAO-SDNY.

Cohen's probably Manafucked bigly.

edit: damn words!

It seems highly likely the FBI already knew Hannity was a client of Cohen's given it already came out that they've been watching and investigating him since last August or earlier.

I think the fact that Cohen's lawyers named Hannity as a client means they know the FBI has evidence that proves that and saw no direct value for their client in trying to hide that fact (though they did make a half-hearted attempt to keep from having to disclose his name in open court). What you really have to ask yourself is why Hannity tried to deny every retaining Cohen almost immediately after the news broke. To me that seemed like an incredibly stupid move unless he knows Cohen helped him with something scandalous and he's hoping to distance himself from the shady things Cohen did on his behalf much like Trump tried to pretend he had no idea that Cohen was just randomly paying off women that Trump screwed on the side out of his own pocket.

"Just because you have a lawyer in the room doesn't mean you have attorney client privilege."

This was Don Jr.s defense IIRC.

Top 10 Brands on Fox News (Feb. 2018)

Nutrisystem $1.90M Otezla $1.04M Jenny Craig $806K Sleep Number $655K Indeed $587K South Beach Diet $574K Smile Direct Club $563K Liberty Mutual $488K GEICO $469K Inogen $450K

dont mind me, just passing by. you know what to do, fuck Hannity's shit up.

I’d put some money on my two guesses here:

1 - Being a “fixer” is a thing that Cohen does, but he is also an active facilitator for the shady money laundering aspect of Trumpworld. You’ve pointed out that Lumpy’s employer practically has lawyers on retainer to facilitate their host’s affairs. Why then, would Hannity go to Michael Cohen, who does not appear to be a particularly competent coverer up?

The simplest explanation, as far as I can tell, is that if you join a criminal conspiracy involving laundered money, the lawyer doing the laundering is now your lawyer, you don’t get to involve someone else more qualified.

This is connected to guess

2 - Mueller didn’t “refer” this case to SDNY in the sense of “hey, this isn’t my deal, but I think you guys might be interested,” he referred it in the sense of “hey guys, this is big, but it’s your area of expertise.” In short, he found evidence of vast and complicated financial crimes, so he contracted it to the finest group of financial crimes prosecutors in the world - SDNY.

But that Cohen almost exclusively was used in a fixer capacity, and that Hannity had access to lawyers who dealt with hush money payments (O'Reilly as prescident), it's rather weird he would choose to go to Cohen unless it was something illegal. And certainly it wasn't innocous "sometimes I got legal advice from him" bullshit. You don't go to the fixer for helpful hints and tips.

Mimi Rocah, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, explains to Rachel Maddow the role of a special master in determining privileged material seized under warrant, and why Michael Cohen may not have done enough lawyering to qualify as having attorney-client privilege with Donald Trump. [7m31s]

This is why lawyers always advise clients to improvise their legal defense on live national radio.

I read a post today that theorized Hannity and Trump communicated through Cohen. They gambled on attorney/client privilege. This way they could orchestrate the news cycle.

I thought it was a clever theory, but the easy one is to assume Hannity used Cohen for his special services.

Edit: IANAL

they have to be trying to hide something that has Hannity on it (or recorded) that they do not want prosecutors to see (or hear).

A lot of people here did not seem to listen to the show. Hannity's public statements on Twitter and in the majority of his show he claimed to have never paid him, but there was one moment on the show where he f'ed up and said he may have slipped $10 his way for attorney client privilege. You may all think this is bullshit but think about the potential advantage Cohen would have had in representing Hannity before this shitstorm. Think about their reasons for lying. Is it clear to no one else? He absolutely was a client for some small time shitty payment and Hannity is parsing words to say "client" is someone with whom he's entered a dispute with a third party. I listened to his full show and that's exactly what he was going after. He's a fucking pig.

said he may have slipped $10 his way for attorney client privilege.

That just resonated with me so much when I saw he said that. Hannity is a multi-millionaire, who slipped a lawyer for other multi-millionaires (Trump, dude from RNC), a mother fucking $10. That's not payment. That's not actual money. That's not retaining a lawyer. That's Hannity throwing shit at the wall to try and not incriminate himself too badly, and also sort-of-not-entirely hang Cohen to dry.

He's a weasel and he's squirming

Lol. She called you a bitch, Cohen.

This isn't like they happened to shop at the same grocery store. This attorney literally had 3 clients.

Rumor has it the NSA has Hannity on tape with Russian intelligence operatives, and had had those recordings for quite some time. Wouldn't surprise me if he had a FISA warrant on him by now.

As others in different threads point out, Hannity is rich and could afford very good lawyers.

Cohen's been mired in controversies. Dolling out NDAs and hush payments. Hiding scandals of other big names. Being called a "fixer".

There are two likely possibilities. Hannity had a scandal he had Cohen fix. Or Hannity, Trump, and likely others used Cohen as a messenger for communicating sensitive things and protect those secret discussions under attorney-client privilege.

The latter is my go-to favorite reddit theory because it makes sense. Sure Trump and Hannity meet each other and call each other, but if they wanted to coordinate less than legal activities, they may have wanted to use Cohen as a go-between.

This is further validated by Hannity's initial denial of being Cohen's client and his subsequent back-tracking "I gave him a 10 or something". He gave ten fucking dollars to an attorney are you shitting me we're supposed to believe that?

Hannity most likely has a few skeletons of his own. The guy always looks like he was just caught burying a body in his backyard on live TV. There's no way he hasn't done shady shit. Probably sexual harassment, hush money payments through Cohen, or maybe ties to Russia.

If Hannity isn't a client then their communications aren't privileged.

If they have reason to believe that it involves a crime they have every right to look at everything. They have warrants.

This is simple shit.

Actually, his statement may have significance. Part of the equation in determining whether an attorney-client relationship exists is whether a person thinks it exists. Hannity just gave some very good evidence that he did not believe such a relationship existed. Another part is whether a person paid for such a relationship, and Hannity's claim that he did not is very good evidence that no such relationship existed.

Hannity may have just fucked himself as bad as Cohen has fucked the Con-man in Chief.

Imply not infer. Sorry to be pedantic but it drives me crazy.

I saw somewhere today that Hannity suddenly recalled he had the wherewithal to hand Cohen a 10 dollar bill to make their client attorney relationship official.

Daily Mail

They're both perfectly cromulent words.

Yes but Cohen is one of the best attorneys, if you have the chance and the money you go for the best.

Were you able to type that with a straight face? I'm serious.

Is that something you truly believe?

Cohen went to one of the worst Law schools in the country. Being Trump's lawyer does not automatically qualify him to be good, just because Trump is rich.

I cannot see any other way you equate Cohen with being good.

Yeah, I imagine they communicated via the telephone to orchestrate the news cycle. Trump often has Lou Dobbs on the speaker phone during meetings in the Oval Office - why wouldn't he just communicate directly with Hannity?

As such, Dobbs doesn’t get to just interview and socialize with the president; he is involved in some of the administration’s more sensitive discussions. During the first year of the Trump era, the president has patched in Dobbs via speakerphone to multiple meetings in the Oval Office so that he could offer his two cents, according to three sources familiar with these conversations. Trump will ask Dobbs for his opinion before and after his senior aides or Cabinet members have spoken. Occasionally, he will cut off an official so the Fox Business host can jump in.

The Daily Beast - April 2, 2018

They mistook fixer-crook omerta for attorney-client privilege. Easy mistake to make.

Isn’t that pretty much what Saul Goodman made them do? Like pay him a dollar or something? Sean hannity basically took his legal stance from breaking bad. That doesn’t actually work tho, it’s bs.

Fixer seems a bit grandiose, Cohen just filed boilerplate NDA and false loan applications

There is an ocean of attorneys out there. From a purely professional (not legal) perspective, Hannity fucked up bigly by engaging with Cohen on legal advice.

Even if the interactions were completely innocent, Hannity's omission of this as a political commentator is damning. He should, and does, know that this looks incredibly sketchy.

See what happens when you hire a $10 attorney?

That's my favorite part. 'Maybe I gave him ten bucks...' To what? Park your car?

I hope this is true. Hannity is probably one of the most damaging figures in terms of dividing this nation. He feeds into his viewers fears. Night after night after night.

But when you’re in the GOP club and in front of the Republican majority senate you can say “I can’t tell you because I promised Jesus I’d never tell..” and they’ll accept it.

That's a spicy meatball. Got any links?

Guess there are a lot of self-loathing fat people in his audience.

A Trump appointed federal judge signed off on it. Everyone who signed off is a Trump appointee. They have good reason. If a conversation isn't privileged and it is evidence of a crime that is produced while executing a lawful warrant then it's fair game.

By your logic police would have to ignore a body they uncovered while searching for drugs because it wasn't specified in the warrant. It doesn't work that way.

An errand boy doesn't deserve attorney-client privilege.

John Schindler has been saying it for months, supposedly he has sources in the NSA: https://twitter.com/20committee/status/893294914523602947

I want to call Hannity for his reaction...

Stop arguing about grammar. What's important is that stories like this embiggens my justice boner.

That's not how it works. You don't need to pay anything to claim attorney-client privilege. All you need is to request an attorney's help on a legal matter regardless of paying for that help. But on the other hand Hannity claims he was just asking Cohen's opinion on something, so the question is... Is that enough to claim such a privilege?

Cohen considers that he did actual legal work for Hannity, enough to list him as a client. Plus Hannity asked Cohen not to reveal his identity, which means he hoped to be kept anonymous in this. So there seems to be something here, but I think it's to early to say what it is at this point.

Having a lawyer in the room does not infer confer or imply attorney-client privilege and cannot be used as a "shield", typically attempted in cases involving organized crime families.

This is one of the very first things they will ever go over in any corporate legal training. You can't just CC a lawyer on an email and claim it's privileged. Even worse is you can't take an email from the corporate lawyer and then forward it to your manager, because that becomes a discussion between you and your manager and is no longer privileged.

Lmao! Good one.

It is asinine to know a Fox business host has the president's ear.

If the theory was accurate, I would assume there were conversations that Trump/Hannity wouldn't want a soul to hear--classified information, sensitive information. Being shielded by attorney/client privilege could give them the false-hope that their communication was safe. Trump thinks Hannity is Jesus, and Hannity would love the inside scoop from a moron president.

That's the tinfoil hat theory I read about. I thought it was interesting.

No offense taken. I was probably confabulating confer and imply into infer. DUH.

For an account less than 2 months old, you sure do have a lot of transgender-phobic posts.

Cohen is a terrible lawyer, Hannity can afford much better.

Privilege would only attach if the communication with Cohen involved a legal advice from Cohen. Most likely the materials Cohen have with Hannity involve some propaganda action using this show.

Hannity knows this will hurt his "credibility" and he's trying to distance himself from Cohen.

Either way he's fucked. He lost the narrative and most likely he will be criminally implicated in whatever comes out of the Cohen indictments.

Hannity should probably get himself a lawyer.

Cohen is literally one of the worst attorneys. He attended the second worst law school in the country.

We don't need to jump to conclusions.

We're not, we're asking questions and suggesting they be investigated now that there's good cause. Also, it's hardly a "leap" to suggest that the attorney with three clients of whom two are the President of the United States of America and the political pundit who is most vocally antagonistic to those people working against the PotUS might have some reason to have those specific people as clients.

Your concept might make sense if Cohen had more than three clients... but as it is, it's just yet one more example of either intentionally stupid trolling, or proof that logic is not your strong suit.

I laughed at this the most, when I heard it (thanks to the Donald posting it, which made it funnier)

Why doesn’t anyone call Hannity???

Pack it up guys, this warrant was to look for a bloody LEATHER glove, but the only gloves we found on the premises were the bloody LATEX gloves next to the dead body.

Thank goodness we live in a nation of laws so that we can just ignore the crimes we have uncovered!

How weird that Trump and Cohen wants to see what the FBI has seized? Is Trump so careless that he might now know how much criminal evidence his fixer has?

They don't have to try usually, they mostly just coast on being rich and white.

Forgive me for being critical/naive, but on my mobile I'm having trouble finding the sourcing for the patriobiotics(?) site. What's supporting them in terms of credibility? Not doubting, just curious is all.

What is it about these people that they come up with the dumbest possible ways to try and cover their asses?

Mission accomplished (jail).

potentially massive journalistic conflict of interest and ethics issue

The Late Show: Hannity Supercut

I would bet he panicked because he wants to have a conversation with his wife and kids about the news that is going to break about the services that Cohen provided him. Not good to hear about the cover up of an affair on national news first, by you.

Cohen is one of the best attorneys

wut

he can't even write a proper NDA

That's right out of Breaking Bad.

Hannity's response to this seems very Michael Scott. "You can't just say Attorney-Client Privilege and expect anything to happen"

I didn't say it, I declared it.

This all reminds me of The Sopranos where they use the doctors office to talk because the FBI can't listen in

Cohen has been communicating with Russia and giving everyone directions. Starts by bringing you in with money laundering a sweet house, then he finds a hussy to do her thing so he can clean house and collects kompromat which gets sent back to Russia, in exchange he receives Russian intelligence which he disseminates to trump and hannity and the rnc dude. Feds got his kompromat stash and they are all super badly fucked beyond all recognition.

Sounds like Hannity should get an attorney... Oh right. Nm.

Did he go to Trump's doctor for a prostate exam or a kilo of pharmaceutical cocaine?

One thing is protected the other a crime.

Yep. The mental states of the parties are an element of determining if a lawyer-client relationship existed. His words can definitely be used against him.