Charlottesville

Charlottesville

This is what makes talking about the current political climate so difficult.

On one hand, it's always hyperbolic to just call someone a nazi to belittle their argument.

On the other hand... those are literal fucking nazis in my country.

Edit: For those who haven't read the articles, "literally fucking nazis" means that there's quite literally neo nazis waving nazi flags and heiling hitler interspersed and aiding this rally.

Please, please understand that these are NOT Charlottesville residents. They are just dirtbags that drove here to be assholes today.

The fact that you can't call actual Nazis "Nazis" without getting crap likely hints at where the problem actually lies.

What worries me is that the world thinks that this is what Charlottesville is about. This is a beautiful little mountain town that wants to get rid of their Confederate monument. They want to distance themselves. I'm sure Charlottesville has small cells of these fascists, but most of them are from elsewhere. These fuckers traveled here to bully this town

That, coupled with the fact that a simply bizarre amount of people on Reddit take personal offense when you say "nazis are bad."

If someone speaking up against nazis triggers you as a person, then there's without a single doubt something wrong with you as a person.

When Nazi scum and people waving the Confederate flag protest happily together, I'm not sure what the difference between the 2 groups are.

Yeah, this protest painted a complete opposite view of the town itself. Charlottesville is actually extremely progressive, it's why the statue even came down in the first place a couple months ago. Obama even had a campaign office there. I hope no one gets the wrong image here.

We had a similar issue in my home town; Bendigo Australia. We had anti Muslim rallies that made national news, it was hideously embarrassing for our town and 99% of the rally attendees bussed in from other places.

Someone used the term Nazi on CNN and they immediately cut off him. They didn't show any swastika flags, and they were there obviously. They just called it extreme right protest. If the news can't have an honest view of what's going on how are we going to start a discussion about it? What aren't we exposing the hate? Why don't they show who these Nazi's and white supremacist are? It seems like the news is protecting them and frankly I find it disgusting.

That, coupled with the fact that a simply bizarre amount of people on Reddit take personal offense when you say "nazis are bad."

It was a little over two years ago that the literal Neo Nazi web site Daily Stormer wrote an article titled: "Reddit is Fertile Ground for Recruitment". Is anyone really surprised to find that this site has a lot of Nazis hanging around these days?

Source if anyone cares.

Well, they are flying the flag of losers

I'm pretty sure there's a significant overlap

Welp, there goes the whole "heritage, not hate" argument.

It's 2017 right?

What flag is that? I thought the confederate flag was just all white.

About time. Basic white guy, born and raised in the south. Never understood it. I've always thought it was just dumb.

There should only be one flag for our country. The 'Murican one.

It's awful. We have such a nice little city. All these assholes got themselves riled up on the internet and decided to invade the town.

What? I live in Charlottesville and not really sure what you're talking about. It's pretty small and mostly built around the university and the hospital. Lots of new construction projects, but it's not really gentrification since the areas where this happens are already middle class and student housing. Besides, gentrification isn't simple. The town keeps getting bigger so companies keep building large apartment complexes to hold the new people and stay within walking distance to the school. Not a whole lot of racism within charlottesville itself either. The university is very outspoken against these protests as is the mayor and the majority of the people.

Edit: Also, please read up on gentrification. Not sure when the word became so negative but it has a lot of positives as well as some negatives. The social displacement section is pretty interesting. In order for any town to grow, gentrification has to happen. Unsure as to why it's a negative but I'd love to hear some of y'alls opinions.

I think they overlap but one is more anti semetic and one is more anti black

This is not trashy. It's just trash.

While that's utterly horrifying, I can't say I'm surprised.

What is nice, though, is to see a general solidarity with all of Reddit today. I mean fuck, if there was one thing you're supposed to takeaway from life it's that Nazis = not the good guys.

And while it's disgusting to see these rampaging freaks pop up on here and think this vile racist nonsense is okay, I have to say it's reassuring to see them then swatting down en masse.

The kkk is the bridge between the two.

We live in a time where people are more offended by being called racists than being racists.

I don't even fucking know anymore, dude

Just look at this thread dude, its full of people claiming BLM is somehow equivalent to literal Neo Nazis. Reddit's Nazis are out in full force trying to deflect and change the subject all over the place tonight, I dont think theres much solidarity really.

There's that picture going around of a confederate flag next to a Nazi one, is that from this thing?

No, the confederate flag aside, there are actual Nazis there.

I wouldn't call it extremely progressive. Very liberal, yes. But it's getting gentrified as hell, and there are plenty of racists just like anywhere else. There's nothing magical about it.

Still better than where these nazis came from though.

Carrying a confederate flag is exactly the same thing as carrying an ISIS flag. They are both terrorist organizations that supported slavery, public executions, torture, hatred, bigotry, treason and religious fanaticism.

I live there (or more specifically very close but not in the actual city) and Charlottesville is very much a quant liberal city. This isn't what Charlottesville is about. We took down some old monuments and neonazis got pissed.

The confederate flag stands for hatred, slavery and war. It's a symbol of death and suffering, I don't care how much they scream about preserving culture.

Neo-Nazis: "I believe in white supremacy and the jews are holding us back!"

Confederate apologists: "You're WRONG! I believe in white supremacy and it's the blacks who are holding us back!"

KKK: "Guys...guys....there's no need to fight. We can blame BOTH groups for our failures and the lack of our full adult teeth."

On the other hand, /sub/videos upvoted US soldiers demolishing Nazi symbols in Nuremberg in 1945, /sub/music upvoted Dead Kennedys' Nazi Punks Fuck Off, /sub/pics has had multiple highly upvoted posts such as the one of the black police officer and the man in the Adolf Hitler quote t-shirt, the /sub/news threads have been full of people decrying and condemning what's going on, /sub/politics has had multiple 10+ thousand threads, and all the left-leaning/anti-trump subs have had front page threads as well. This site is mostly lurkers and people who just upvote instead of commenting, so content wise I've seen what the above poster is talking about.

Fellow bendigo resident here, it was so embarassing, dont worry the rest odf the world knows there not from your town.

Why are you engaging in whataboutism?

About Nazis?

Waving the flag of traitors is pretty much the least American thing you can possibly do.

It's always the ugliest and worst dressed people. Say what you will about the real Nazis but they had fashion sense. Every time I see a photo like these is the people hitler would have killed off.

Because all the tramp stamps, ill fitting jeans and sidewalk peeing on this sub utterly pales in comparison to the fucking trashiness that is people violently showing support for racist and genocidal regimes.

There is nothing in the world that's trashier.

Yeah. But today, many didn't even try to hide it, carrying straight up Nazi flags and swastikas. https://i.redd.it/fn2v1wdc2cfz.jpg

Yeah. But today, many didn't even try to hide it, carrying straight up Nazi flags and swastikas.

/sub/music upvoted Dead Kennedys' Nazi Punks Fuck Off,

This was my favorite post of the day.

Still though, despite all that go into the comments of any of those thread and you will see plenty of people spewing straight up Nazi apologia or other stuff in defense of the Nazis.

And upside down at that.

Free speech is necessary to provide differing viewpoints. The people will sort out the right from the wrong. suppressing viewpoints of any kind is a recipe disaster and corruption.

Edit: spelling

The Mosque rallies in Bendigo were what I immediately thought of when I heard about Charlottesville. I actually saw a few Confederate flags at some of them, which just made me think of how blatantly racist and stupid these people were being.

Seeing the Australian flag being used for the same purpose on those days made me sad.

I don't think we have a big rally where people are waving a communist flag along with a flag symbolizing "Northern Pride" friend.

So it's a little different, no one is saying communists are good, but it seems like you're trying to imply nazis aren't the absolute scum of the earth.

to alot of people, that flag = white supremacy. which is one of the major part of being a nazi.

Here

When was the last time there was a communist rally that resulted in the death of American citizens in our country?

You're absolutely engaging in whataboutism, you fucking stooge.

Same phenomenon happening right here in Australia. They drive into the cities from their backward ass rural towns to protest against shit that has zero effect on the communities in which they live. The only prerequisite is being white, loud, and ignorant.

That's true. But I think the comment was a joke about Confederates surrendering.

More like 1720

we are all larping on this blessed day

I'm sure you're going to get downvoted but this is essentially true.

Calling these particular people racists and Nazis/Fascists, is actually true. Yet it's used so much by the left that it's lost it's sting.

For instance if you want to reform welfare? You're a racist. Want to strengthen the border? You're a racist. Want to verify a person's identity before they vote? You're a racist. If you disagree with a leftist, not going hire a POC, or fire one, ect, ect, ect.... then you're a racist.

Now when you see actual racists like the people above, even though they can see that the people are really racists... they've heard the term so much spoken out of turn that it almost automatically gives them pause.

Even though "White Supremacists rally" as a title to something should make me automatically know that it's a White Supremacist rally, I actually went to look for photos like this and others just to verify it because it's been used so often for everything.

Hell, just look at the starterpack... Tiki Torch, polo shirt, both checks but MAGA hat and safe space? That's the stretch that makes people start to think the whole thing is BS (even though in this case it isn't).

As someone who currently lives in Virginia (originally from California) If you read this please do me one huge favor. Don't think all Virginians are like this. They really aren't. And Charlottesville is an absolutely beautiful city. Do not judge the city for these morons doing this shit. I am almost positive that less than a quarter of the people there are not from that city. I have been there multiple times. It's one of those cities that holds it a quaint little feel of a small town but has a large university as well.

And the nazi flags?

Yep we sure did, every time they planned a hate rally we actually countered with a peace rally and we were attended by more people :)

Here in America, we have a proud tradition of kicking nazi asses, you got a problem with that?

Propaganda

? Wouldn't it be "our" town? Since you're from there or are you just larping

Yeah it's time to let go of shit that happened 150 years ago as your claim to fame. Even if your gran pappy did actually serve who gives a shit. My family immigrated from Sicily in the early 1900's I'm not hooping and hollerin about my ancestors there. Get over it you bigoted fucks

Bingo. Building more residential units to keep up with demand is the key antidote to fight gentrification and housing affordability crisis that has plagued much of California.

I think that comes from the over use of racism in false ways. The whole crying wolf thing. I know I'm more likely to hold my judgment on a situation than I use to due to being apart of a witch hunt over nothing.

Yup

These fuckers traveled here to bully this town

That t_d helped to mobilize.

I forgot the rally was today and I headed downtown for lunch. First thing I saw was a bunch of dudes goose stepping. I thought they were just random idiots but then I saw actual swastikas along side thin blue line flags and a bunch of others that I couldn't even figure out. This was on top of the copious confederate flags.

aligning themselves with a group that we defeated 70 years ago can't help recruiting or their image.

Uhh, confederates were also defeated. They are all fucking losers.

Who knew Making America Great Again was about going back in time to when we didnt even exist!

Why the fuck are people raising that flag. It's literally Anti American

Thats not even the real confederate flag. its a battle flag from alabama, i think.

Hysterical, they say liberals whine because Hillary lost, but they're still whining because the Confederacy lost.

It's one of the reasons I personally started being a more active reddit user. A year ago these actual deplorable ideas that came from trump and many from his base were really coming out on all social media. I honestly felt I just needed to have some online presence to counter these ideas. Not in any organized or incredibly impactful way, but at least as a small bit of text countering hateful bullshit and upvoting the smart posts. It hurts my soul to see hate gain so much popularity these days and I just can't stand to see it spread unchecked.

And I'm not even getting paid by Soros!

And these morons consider themselves to be the master race.

So you're saying Germany was wrong to take down Nazi regalia and memorials honoring Hitler and his top dogs?

That's more retarded than either side

/sub/beholdthemasterrace

I still don't get why people fly the confederate flag. And the argument of "it's for patriotism and not slavery or racism" is bullshit. The confederacy went to war over the right to maintain slavery because their fucking economy was built on it. The entire flag stands for it one way or another. Get a grip and don't try and sugar coat shit. If you want to be patriotic fly the actual flag of the USA.

Did the locals in Bendigo actually have a peaceful counter protest/rally showing support for their community? Think I remember that. Really showed the bussed in dickheads for what they were :D

Ok.. between 1861-1865 every nation you can identify still conducted public executions. You have no evidence that they "supported" torture, but the point is the same - just about all nations of the time still used torture to some extent. They supported "treason" much like the United States did some 87 years prior and, at the time, the union was the more religious of the two involved in the Civil War. That's a current stereotype of the south now, but when the Confederate battle flag pictured was being used by a division of the Confederate army, the religious fanatics were still in Boston and Philadelphia.

I don't understand "hatred." You think the supported the hatred of slaves? At the time they, as did most of white society throughout the Americas and Europe, felt that blacks were socially and mentally inferior to themselves. It wasn't right, but blood letting didn't cure anything either. They still did it. That's not the same thing as hatred.

They certainly were bigots, so we're the rest of the whites of the time. Don't forget, Lincoln's initial plan was not to free the slaves, but to recolonize Liberia, in Africa.

And, while virtually none of the Confederates fighting in the Civil War owned a slave, I imagine most supported slavery. Given the plantation owners had been using free labor for the better part of 300 years, they suddenly would be incurring a labor cost that would require the price of their goods to rise to a level that would keep all those European merchant vessels that filled up the ports in Savannah, Charleston, Wilmington and New Bern back in Europe. They were fighting for their way of life.

Don't misunderstand me, they were fighting for slavery, which the rest of the modern world had banned at that point so, so they should have planned accordingly knowing they would have to free their slaves soon enough, and they didn't. They got everything that was coming to them for starting a war under a terrible and unjustified pretense.

ISIS, on the other hand, was never a recognized part of any country. Actually are religious fanatics that have twisted a religions actually beliefs to suit their own needs. They steal oil from Iraq and Syria and resell it to maintain their war efforts, they execute most male prisoners they take while using the women like Fleshlight trading cards.

Comparing the two, especially given how misguided and flawed an argument you put forth, is irresponsible. Just like the assholes waving a Confederate Battle flag (that I assure you they believe was the Confederate national flag, because they are idiots on a level that can't be tolerated).

But they aren't even in the same stratosphere as ISIS.

In a museum. That is the key difference. The Nazi regalia and memorials are not in public squares. I just visited Germany. There is literally no public trace of the Nazis, aside from museums (including the concentration camps, which are museums).

I should have figured they were having fun in there today.

This is fucking hilarious.

I should have figured they were having fun in there today.

Well what's important is you found a way to feel superior to both.

Amazing how many of the dipshits actually fly both an American flag AND a Confederate battle flag; literally the symbol for a group that tried to destroy the United States. (If secession had succeeded, there would have been nothing like the US most of us love.)

Seriously! It's like, did we not learn a fucking thing from Indiana Jones?

I thought the morals of those films were pretty clear:

-Nazis are the bad guys

-It belongs in a museum

It really is nice, although it pains me to openly admit that. Go Hokies😉

Because their side lost. History decided that slaves aren't cool, killing Jews isn't cool. These people are proudly displaying their racism with a flag and calling it "heritage" or whatever, but it's just good ol' fashion racism. And that's super trashy.

Yoo fuck these guys but also I support their right to protest PEACEFULLY. Not when they're driving cars into people.

BLM opposes white supremacy, these people support it.

You're right though. They're basically the same.

Communism =/= racism and nazism

Some people, now get this, think the Nazis were bad because of the systematic extermination of millions of human beings. I know. Go figure.

Some of them are, some of them aren't

Let me remind you that the Confederacy literally supported owning black people as property.

Wtf is happening in this country.

Exceptions created for this situation will be exploited for other situations.

Remember when people on reddit were commenting on how Nazis and white supremacists have the right to free speech and to spread hate? Yeah, hate speech and free speech aren't the same, and this is why it should be suppressed.

Wrong. Hate speech is hateful, and has consequences. But you have the right to speak it. You'd better just make damned sure you're prepared for those consequences. The government has no right to silence your speech, hateful or otherwise. This is to protect speech that you or I may hate, but also to protect speech you or I love, but that others hate. That said, private parties have the right to sue you if it harms them, so you'd better make sure you know what it is that you're saying.

Guess what other forms of free speech are protected?

Photographs and Facebook posts. There is currently a Facebook-based campaign highlighting specific people who attended this hateful rally, and asking questions like "Do you know me? Do I work for you? Do you want to do something about that?" Don't like this hate speech? Want to do something about it? Start grabbing photos from this debacle and post them to Facebook. Overlay text on it that asks those questions. Perhaps these horrible people will think twice when they realize that their actions, funded by others or not, do have consequences.

Creepy? Sure. Protected? Damned right, just as those individuals' hateful words are protected. Those are the consequences of their actions. You have the right to be an asshole, but you can be fired or shunned if you are. And you have the right to shun those performing such actions.

Think twice, folks. Your words are protected from the government. They are not protected from society or private parties, including your friends or employers.

It must really bother you that Trump is blowing Putin on a daily bases.

Hmm, just from what I've picked up it's just a economical ideology

Edit: the only stuff I found with a quick search was some sketchy sources and an article talking about Karl Marx being racist

General Lee decide that the real confederate flag looked too much like the american flag. he was worried that soldiers would mistake the two and shoot at the wrong people. so he went with a flag that was nothing like americas. the KKK when it first started where mostly ex-soldiers so they kept using the flag they where already using.

The confederate flag is a symbol used by the south to harken back to a time when whites could own darker people like property. That's trashy

Do you have a source for those rape allegations?

Pretty much.. Yes

The guy who drove the car into the crowd is from Ohio.

It's a bridge that goes nowhere. The two groups are identical.

Denouncing people taking pride in a society that was built dolely due to slavery isn't taking sides, it's literally the moral thing to do regardless of political affiliation

It's more likely than you think.

Easy to say for you.. my family lost four of five brothers fighting for the Confederacy so it actually means a lot. They fought AND DIED for what they believed in. You may not give a shit but I will never forget the lesson my family learned from their sacrifice: Don't be a dumbass and give your life for some rich dude who doesn't give a fuck about you.

Seriously though it saddens me that my ancestors did that. The poor bastards died and the rich land owners retained their land and wealth. They just turned their slaves into sharecroppers/wage slaves and used their wealth to influence society to continue with racial status quo.

Edit: I do have a deep family history with the Confederacy but I think the heritage argument is bullshit. I don't think I worded it well but I was essentially making fun of my ancestors for fighting for rich slave owners who would just exploit them anyways.

It's also similar to flying both a South and North Korean flag. Just get your priorities straight!

do you also go around correcting people that the wehrmacht weren't nazis and that Erwin Rommel was an honorable gentleman?

It's a rectangular version of confederate Virginia's battle flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

And the girl he killed lived in Charlottesville.

The Confederate States all explicitly stated the reason for their succession was to preserve slavery, a system built on mass sustained terrorism.

Disgusts me so much. I love my country and to be an American is to love diversity. I have so many questions for these people?! Why? How? For how long? Basically, have you always been a dick?

I gotta disagree, and I'm liberal as hell...a socialist of sorts, actually. And these people suck. However:

When you start picking and choosing which political doctrines deserve free speech, you immediately put your own at risk.

If it weren't for complete and total free speech, you can be sure Trump would have started suppressing liberals by now, guaranteed.

Free speech can't be partial or it's not free in the first place.

The majority of us know that already, so no worries hon❤️ and millions upon millions of people are sending prayers/good vibes/juju for everyone in your city and all those involved.

unless they are into saving the environment

SAVE THE WHITE POPLAR TREE not the brown poplar

Witnesses saw him drive through the crowd and then back up and do it again. And I did say PEACEFULLY. So obviously not.

Fuck these racist assholes; we should round them up and ship them to an island somewhere far, far, away. Once we impeach Trump; we can send him there too and he can be King of Idiot island.

And, you know, goose-stepping and saying "Heil Trump". JFC.

OMG the confederate flag does NOT repersent racism i CAN't believe i have to say THIS every day! !!! it JUST happens to be held by racist PEOPLE all tHE time! !!

Yeah and my family lost people in the Hundred Years' War, get over it man. You didn't meet any of your family that was even the son of anyone in the civil war. Plus it doesn't look good to be call yourself American but also respect those that fought against our nation, you're connecting those dots right? Your ancestors are like any other enemy of America, quit holding them up on a pedestal.

Thought so. I thought I saved it but apparently I didn't.

Dude down the street flies a Confederate flag and an American flag. Isn't that the equivalent of flying a Confederate and Union flag?

Communism is extremely racist.

mmmmm, yeah, sorry but I'll need you to provide some sources on that.

There are many countries in the world that still actively enslave black people, the confederate flag is a relic, not a material reality. Nobody waving a confederate flag has black slaves. So yes in a historical context your right, but from a modern day perspective you are wrong. See how properly analyzing a situation yields different results instead of exclusively biased ones?

Gee, I guess waving the Nazi flag is totally fine, too, since there are many countries which still actively hate Jews and nobody who owns a Nazi flag has ever gassed six million people.

Boy, you sure changed my view on the topic of hate groups.

The only housing being built is huge condos that no one that lives here can afford. It's courting outside money.

Bunch of slack jawed morons who are using PVC pipe for flag poles.

Not a fan of the title, kinda feels like it implies that Charlottesville is trashy? All the shit going down is coming from groups coming INTO Charlottesville. The place is nice on its own.

People who buy into the claim that neonazis are just a white version of BLM either haven't taken the time to really understand the issues that minorities face in the US or they're too lazy/dumb to think independently.

Edit: typo

I personally thought the statues should have stayed up, just because I like history and learning about it. I live right by Charlottesville and what makes me mad are people believing this is life or death. New nazies threatening to kill over a fucking statue. Whether it stays up or not I'm just disappointed in where we are as a country

England tried something similar once upon a time. The experiment is a sovereign nation now (and we love you guys).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flag

Stop bleeding your bullshit guilt onto people who have nothing to do with this.

An asshole from OHIO commits vehicular murder, and you're gonna throw every Virginia resident under the bus as if the whole state are Nazi racists?

I was born and raised in Richmond.

These people do not represent all Virginians.

Fuck you.

Classic T_D rhetoric. But 'er e-mails..

Goddamn right brother

Well and this

Well and

Remember when people on reddit were commenting on how Nazis and white supremacists have the right to free speech and to spread hate? Yeah, hate speech and free speech aren't the same, and this is why it should be suppressed.

There were significant external pressures on the South, both foreign and domestic.

Uh...right. So they needed slavery to keep their economy solvent in the face of those pressures.

I've known a lot of folks from the south... There are a lot of good people down there. But to date, every person I've ever met that took pride in the Confederacy... Oops, I mean "Southern Heritage," could be described as white trash. 'Nuff said.

You just equated American citizens on welfare to nazis.

No platform for Nazis, stop apologizing for them

I actually agree with this. They absolutely have that right. But it doesn't mean they should do it. I have the right to stick my dick in a blender if I want. Doesn't mean I should do it though.

Nobody is saying ignore the Civil War, just maybe don't celebrate the people on the wrong side of it.

Let's just be real. How many of our grandparents fought in WWII and saw many of their brothers lose their lives. They're fucking nazis, they don't deserve free speech

It'd be like calling all of the occupy protesters rapists.

The Confederates folks here are racist, too. It's not the same thing.

I don't think I've seen a communist rally in the US like the Nazi ones. Ever.