Umm Amber, being home Secretary I know that you know that they can already be served with a life tariff under section 18 of the offences against the person act 1861, but I'm sure you already know that. Similarly I'm sure you know that the sentencing council exists and that the home office has nothing to do with sentencing...
And they should, it is after all a life sentence for the victims
Its a life sentence for the victim. Acid attack is the kind of pre meditated attack that I dont think there is any coming back from. If you do that you are a monster plain and simple.
What's that you say? Increase Internet surveillance and force encryption backdoors to prevent acid sales to people that aren't licensed. Got it!
Of course she knows this is just about being seen to do something and being seen to be tough on crime. Voters love it.
This is a result of perverse incentives. Gangs use weapons to over power each other. They used to use knives so the police cracked down on knives so the gangs turned to harmful liquids. Now we shall have a crackdown on "acid" so they will turn to something else. We have to decide what we want to be a weapon of choice and try to reduce gang culture. I favour cricket bats and legalising recreational drugs.
I dont know if I could take an assailant seriously if he waltzed up with a cricket bat... until he broke my kneecaps
How about spending some money on helping the acid attack victims as well?
Na fuck anyone who would do that to a person. They've given up their right to be in society by ruining someone else's life for no reason. It's not eye for an eye if you let them stay alive essentially unscathed for what they did, it's merciful
We need this implemented, like... yesterday.
Nice fantasy, but doesn't do much other than undermine the justice system.
You are correct however political/public pressure can increase sentencing, in the 2011 riots people (some first offenders) were getting 3+ month custodial sentences for stealing items to the value less than £50 which would have usually resorted in fines/caution at the very most.
I'm sorry but it's not like throwing acid on someone is a spur of the moment bad decision someone made. It's a premeditated decision to ruin someone's life forever, and they should be punished accordingly.
So? It will be a lot harder for them to set up their new operations without the drug cash. Plus the reason drugs are such a valuable market is that the public generally don't see drugs as a problem so people have no problem dealing them, the same can't be said about human trafficking.
I just don't think gangs will disappear if you legalise drugs. It'ss about more than power squabbles, it's about young people who have no meaningful role to occupy making themselves feel powerful by devolving into tribalism.
While this is true, making it a separate offence is a good idea because it serves as a more visible deterrent. Acid attacks are on the rise and they result in particularly horrible, painful and disfiguring injuries. Action is needed to try to stem the tide.
But if you legalise the drugs and start an Amsterdam style method, the drug gangs will lose a huge chunk of their income which would lead to less gang members. Who would want to be in a gang that's skint?
That would be funny if that isn't exactly what those incompetent tosspots are thinking. Won't someone think of the children? /s
Don't be such an American. Retributive justice is hopelessly ineffective.
Have them bob for apples in a vat of acid for starters.
Oh. Well that's a relief! I have a flamethrower and extra large dildo near my bed... and a box of sharp pointy darts... and two blow up dolls that keep whispering
I think I could be fine
Then when the victim is recovering they can find them fit for work and sanction them until they hang themselves.
How about 1861?
to be kept in penal servitude for life
Hey kids, I'm Bobby the Bear! (giant anthropomorphic bear dressed as a British police officer) Did you know it's wrong to throw acid at people's faces?
Drugs are the most profitable and easy illegal business that there is. Nothing else will bring the kind of massive and easy profits that illegal drugs do right now. Other illegal activities require more expertise, skill, and effort.
Take burglary, for example. It requires some acquired skill or expertise, unlike selling drugs. And then burglary creates victims who are likely to file policy reports, whereas people who buy illegal drugs aren't going to call 911 and say "this guy just sold me some dope".
I don't think anyone who would consider throwing acid at someone's face deserves a second chance. I would be ok with death sentence in that scenario.
Throwing drain cleaner on someone's face without a clogged drain in sight is pretty indicative of premediation. Who just walks around with acid and attacks someone unintentionally? The attacker needed to have thought the attack out. The attack would have needed to buy the acid, and stalk their victims.
This is welcome news but we all know these latest cretins will escape it due to their age. Personally, if a child is old enough to commit a crime like this, they are old enough to acccept the full punishment.
This site is populated by idiots and teenagers.
If we ban encryption and make anonymous VPN's illegal maybe that will stop these acid attacks.
Ahh, so your reactionaries are idiots, too. I knew there was a reason we mostly got along.
I don't think public opinion had anything to do with it at all, it's a strong arm move and other rioters in other riots/protests have also had sentences increased regardless of public opinion. In short governments don't like riots, and are good at turning protests into riots.
Maybe they just need to invent a Scruff McGruff mascot for the UK and leave it at that.
Wait a second, didn't they already create this character? Mr Blobby the acid-attack victim?
Quite happy with all the nut jobs in my area not being able to get their hands on guns thank you. The local chavs balls only get bigger the more weapons you give them.
Use the money that would have been spent on years of inprisonment on the victims! perfect system
Yeah, seriously. I don't know enough to get into a debate about prison sentences, etc. but something like this should get one of the harshest punishments. I would say it's morally worse than some heat-of-the-moment murder, even if the injuries weren't too bad. This is just premeditated evil, with the sole desire of hurting innocent strangers.
That's awful, everyone knows Mr. Blobby had Down's syndrome. You shouldn't mock the afflicted
What is there even to consider? Maybe Hammurabi or something, maybe. But an act like this deserves no clemency, sympathy, or rehabilitation.
I'd say you draw the line at randomly throwing acid in people's faces
seriously they would probably snap at the handle.
but baseball bats would be a nightmare, got myself a "lil slugger" for home defence.
Maybe stop being edgy for a second and explain why the latest acid attackers were native brits?
Because capital punishment sometimes kills innocent people, which is even worse
What about when someone is wrongfully convicted? It happens all the time, sometimes even with cases that at first glance seemed open and shut with mountains of evidence.
There are good reasons why we, as a society, don't maim or torture criminals and not all of those reasons have to do with sympathy for them.
They are too busy telling us what porn we can watch and trying to put back doors in our social media and other communication. You can't expect a Tory to punish criminals when there are so many innocent people still to subjugate.
*Not murdering the wrong people activists
Don't disagree but it's nice to reiterate. Courts tend to be too easy on first time offenders who show/feign regret. Clean record shouldn't be considered when judging serious crimes imo.
Oh. Well thats a relief! I have a wooden baseball bat in my garage... and a machete.. and two spears
I think i could be fine
I'm as concerned about crazy prison sentences as the next guy, but there is something to be said about locking them up and throwing away the key. Violent people rarely change their ways. Part of the reason America's crime wave has been reduced is simply that the really bad ones ended up caught in a series of interlocking laws which put them in prison for very long periods of time, and eventually, the really bad repeat offenders just found homes in prison. Hillary was castigated for her "superpredators" comment and support of serious prison sentences, but violent crime should be responded to with serious prison sentences which grow more severe for repeat offenders until they simply no longer have access to the rest of us.
There are, of course, major problems with this. On big one is that prison trains criminals. It is and has always been a college for criminals. Another is that it is expensive. We'd be far better off using genuine deterrence (more cops on the street watching, better ways out of poverty, better education) and much better rehabilitation for people in prison, and even more important, vastly changed laws concerning non violent crime, especially drugs, when rehabilitation and restitution would be more helpful to society at large.
Sadly, we seem to have decided that throwing them in prison is the best and only solution. And this has caused more problems than it has fixed. We're abusing large segments of our population, it's racist, and it is a nonending cycle of failure that is only growing worse with this solution, not better.
EDIT: As the victim of violent crime I should note that I am a strong supporter of real life in prison sentences, and not just for deterrence. Punishment is very much in my mind when I discuss this.
Yes and that's why criminals don't fear punishment.
How's that working out?
I'm not saying we should punish all people like this, but I do believe we need to reserve such measures for the worst that society has to offer.
If you live by the horribleness then you die by the horribleness.
That's all I'm saying.
In the US you can easily get a gun. Why bother with Acid when you have much simpler, quicker, and more effective weapons available.
Man do I feel ya. I live in a very mammoth neighborhood too. Never know when you're going to wake up to one trying to impale your woman with their tusks.
I disagree. If that were to happen to me or someone I loved, I would want the person locked up for life.
Agent provocateurs are a great way to escalate protests into criminal actions that then need to be dispersed, destroying the credibility of the protesters and shutting down their message
The death penalty costs more than life inprisonment
Really? Haven't we, as a society, moved past such barbaric punishments?
No matter how these individuals behave, we shouldn't let them drag us down to these levels.
But I guess we just have a different morale system.
Please don't hijack the thread about that. Fact is we have a major issue wit acid attacks that need to be dealt with
Agreed. One does not simply throw acid on someone.
Reddit is becoming the comment section of yahoo news. Especially the bigger subs.
The offence isn't affecting the jail time. The offence that covers an intentional acid attack already carries a maximum of life.
I always look for this post on these threads. The reddit meme of "all people in jail should be released other than the crime I get upset about - those fuckers should have their human rights violated!!"
They typically tend to be in the top 10% of upvoted comments. It's rather amusing to me.
"Early data suggests that the majority of both attackers and victims are white British men, he says, but the motives span from revenge attacks to hate crimes, domestic abuse, gang crime and organized crime."
Except killing someone isn't a £0.25 bullet. It's massive costs including fancy drugs, lengthy legal battles, admin and all sorts of shit. If you're going to end someones only chance at life, you better make sure you do it right. The murder method is only one of many many considerations.
What's your point?
When they're currently getting less jail time than knife possession then it needs a separate offence adding
Yup. Now maybe she can do her job and release that report naming and shaming Saudi Arabia for funding terrorism. That seems more appropriate use of her time.
Not just shooting, it includes by any means
Whosoever shall unlawfully and maliciously by any means whatsoever wound or cause any grievous bodily harm to any person
As someone who lives in London, I kind of support sending a message that you are going to be punatively punished for doing this kind of thing.
Well we have had historically for a little bit but its mainly due to Pakistan which has huge amounts of acid attacks and the culture of that is exported here. The vast majority of attacks are still carried out by people of Pakistani descent its just the last few have been white people so hey lets report on the few white people out of hundreds of yearly cases.
How about a return to classic England and dole out some actual death sentences?
Iron Maiden would be nice.
Ooooh, some hanging, drawing, emasculating and quartering is better.
Cause that's what these punks deserve.
These attackers aren't worth rehabilitating. They are lost causes.
Time to purge them from society .