I live in Farmington, and was driving to Aztec on my way up North for work when this happened.
Found out about it from my son's School in Farmington going on lockdown.
The amount of people driving at high speed from Farmington to Aztec, assumably parent's trying to pick up kids... It was quite heartbreaking.
Hey guys, I'm a local. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers. 3 confirmed dead, 14 wounded. One shooter dead.
I'm in Aztec. I graduated last year so a lot of the people are my friends. We are a very small town. Everyone kind of knows each other. Can't go anywhere without running into someone you know. Casey Jordan and Paco Fernandez. I didn't personally know any of them but Casey's mom is a close family friend. We gave her our graduation decorations for Casey so she could save some money. My moms co-workers were all at the police station or wherever when a police man came to her and took her away into a room. Everyone heard her screaming when they told her that her daughter wasnt okay. The locked down all the schools in the area and bussed all the AHS kids to McGee park to reunite with parents. Caseys mom didn't get go go to the park to pick up her kid today. My sister said she knew her. My sister had to go take a psychology final right after finding out she died at the college. All my friends are devastated. They recently confirmed that it was another student who was the shooter. One of us. Its nice to see everyone come together though. I've never seen our school united so quickly. Once a Tiger, always a Tiger. Stay strong people. We are trying our best. Sorry if my grammar or spelling is off. I'm talking to so many different people right now. Dont really have time to make sure everything is 100% right. Thanks for the support. Love you all
Please remember: most info in the first hour is likely off and will be revised.
I'm in Aztec and have a sister in school here. Thank everything she was in her main school and not the highschool today, same with my brothers girlfriend. His girlfriends sister is unaccounted for though which is terrifying.
I don't understand why this is sitting at the bottom of /sub/news.
If we do ban guns would you be the one to go door to door taking them? Because anyone who took that job wouldn't have long to live.
Go for it. What “common sense” gun control would you like to talk about.
Edit: still waiting for him to respond to me to talk about it. Still nothing. Replied to others with snarky comments but no real discussion. Looks like a troll. Possibly Russian?
That's the million dollar question that everyone has been asking for decades since mass killings started at schools in America.
Post was only 3 minutes old when this comment was posted. You need some control
Do you actually have any idea on how that would work (and undoubtedly fail) or do you think someone snaps their fingers, and they go away? This is idiotic.
Can we talk about banning free speech already? This is ridiculous. If people didn't say mean things to the kid he wouldn't have felt the need to act out violently.
We are so used to it unfortunately.
Why do more and more kids these days feel the need to grab a gun and kill a bunch of their classmates? Why don't they just point the gun at themselves instead of taking out innocent people with it?
They want the satisfaction of killing those that hurt them before they go out. A lot of it has to do with mental illness as well. I don't think there's anything that would drive a sane person to shoot innocent people.
Anytime someone argues with you, simply say “what do YOU think they should do? How do you think it could be made better?” and 9 times out of 10 the arguer will have no clue what they actually want
I’m from Farmington and my brother is a cop there, this kind of news is like a punch to the gut. There are always people impacted by these things, it sucks when it hits close to home.
Not among the dead or wounded, but unaccounted for. May have ditched today.
I see this as a problem with violence, not a problem with guns.
But go for it, what would you prescribe? If you can suggest a law that doesn't sound totally fucking stupid (ex: ban all guns!), a law that doesn't punish 99.9% of law-abiding citizens because of the actions perpetuated by a few, a law that doesn't break the "due process" part of the Constitution, then we might come to an agreement.
Reciprocity CCP for every state. (HR 38). Expand NICS to private citizens. I don’t want to sell a gun to a criminal. Allowing NICS to be used by private citizens will curtail the fear. Educate. Educate people on what the difference between guns and their mods are. For instance an AR-15 is a semi auto rifle not an assault rifle. A barrel shroud does nothing mechanically for the fun, just protects the shooters hands. Reverse 1984 assault weapon ban. There has only been 1 person killed by a legal full auto gun (I think in the 30s or 40s?) ENFORCE OUR FUCKING LAWS. If we did that then the church shooting in Texas wouldn’t have happened.
Edit: changed the 1 person killed to 1 person killed by legal full auto. Thank you u/sparroew
Well, I guess I couldn't be too angry in that case.
You’re right. He wants to ban gun mods like barrel shroud or stocks. Dude is nuts.
Ban guns?! Let's ban all crime while we're at it!!
I don't know because I'm neither lawmaker, nor an expert on gun safety..
And there it is. I mean, I would feel really uncomfortable if I was yelling for something, but couldn't even begin describing what it is I wanted. Maybe that's just me though.
All i know is, we need to start having a conversation and consult and listen to the experts..
This is why gun owners don't want to talk to you, because you hand-waive the responsibility of being informed on an issue to other people. Again, I'm not trying to attack you but you need to realize that you're one in a million. Oh, you don't like it when innocent people die? No shit, no one wants that. You want to talk about banning plastic shit on my guns? Fine, but you better know what you're talking about beforehand.
In case anyone wants a summary of gun control in the last 20 years, let me read the fucking writing on the wall for you. Here's what's going to happen next year during midterms or in 2020 with another Presidential election:
A politician is going to stand up and make a great show about acknowledging the rights of gun owners but also talk tough on cracking down on gun violence. They'll have all the best focus-grouped words memorized (politicians loves dropping words like "weapons of war" or "common sense gun control laws") because they know that you're not really informed on the issue (it's okay, they're not either). You don't strike me as an extremist gun grabber, so odds are you're going to get a warm fuzzy listening to that politician because you want to feel like you're picking the middle-road man. You will vote for that guy/gal and you will feel good about yourself because you feel like you're helping.
That politician is going to rehash the same tired bullshit we've heard hundreds of times already and we already know doesn't work. Perhaps they will actually be successful? Perhaps not? Perhaps some state/Presidential candidate will have finally renewed that "assault weapon" ban they've been salivating over for years? But when the next lunatic shows up at a school with two very non-descript pistols and dozens of ten round magazines:
My hope would then be that you could see how talking about why banning scary black rifles was a mental distraction from the real issues in gun violence, but it probably won't. Odds are people are going to scream more, "WHEN WILL THE NRA LET CONGRESS FIX THIS MESS?!" or "WHEN IS THIS GOING TO STOP?!?" never realizing that the people they put into Congress are likely one of the obstacles in the first place.
Rinse and repeat for 30 years, welcome to the conversation.
Everyone can buy a gun with no checks or restrictions?
Fucking hell, this is so inaccurate it hurts. Perhaps people wouldn't shrug off talking about gun control if they thought you were at least minimally informed on the issue.
Let's get this out of the way, all new guns bought from a dealer will have MANDATORY background checks done through the NICS. This has been the case since for almost 20 years now. You will also fill out a 4473 form prior to doing so.
See, here's why these conversations get derailed. The issue isn't because gun owners are just a bunch of assholes who don't want to talk about guns, the issue is that talking to you about gun control is like talking to a Republican about Global Warming. It's not that we disagree, it's that most of you haven't even begun doing basic enough research to have an intelligent conversation about it.
Well it’s looks like they were right so...
Da, tovarisch. Every remark dissenting from the norm is a Russian propaganda troll. That is the way the world works. You're either with us, or you're against us.
Let's start with zero-tolerance background checks, a harsh review of gun modifications, permits for every type of gun, no matter how small. Make it much, much harder for any bozo or suicidal kid to get their hands on a gun. I'm not wishing for the impossible here. What I'm wishing is very, very doable, the only effort it requires is that people take action, and stop hiding behind a severely outdated constitution. (Any hopes and dreams you had of an armed militia have died the second local sheriffs started arming themselves with APCs and military gear)
There you go. Gun mods is what you said. :)
Naw, he's going to send another young man with a family and full life ahead of him to go confiscate all the guns. But hey, the real win here is that u/dj2short feels better.
God damn man. They did and do.
Muzzleloading marshmallow guns
I expect to see these same comments when a Muslim terrorist attack happens then, right?
What do either of those do mechanically??????
Brother, you're asking for a weekly Ruby Ridge scenario with shit like that. Oh yeah, sure, ban all guns. And all those guys who you have made fun of for talking about how the government is going to ban their guns, I'm sure they'll take it real well when you do exactly what they knew you were going to do.
It's never a compromise. When was the last time the pro-gun people got anything out of a "compromise"?
I agree it doesn't have to be one or the other, I think there's lots of gun control that even the hardest NRA members could get behind (and they have). They don't want bad guys having guns any more than you do.
Problem is, we know what most of the gun control you would suggest looks like. You may not have been here for it, but we've had this conversation many times before you decided to join in. We've been having it for over 20 years already. When bad things with gun happens, politicians will scramble over each other to see who can be the first to pass a sexy new law that bans a plastic attachment... and their constituents will love them for it because.... like Ralph Wiggum, they get to pat themselves on the back and say, "I'm helping!"
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here to not just assume you're going to repeat the same 12 tired, talking points. So I'll ask again, what would you prescribe to fix the gun issue?
Dude barrel shrouds are mentioned by name in the AWB, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_shroud it isn't a talking point at all legislators know dick about guns.
I would absolutely stop naming the shooter. 100%. This is easy, free, and way easier than ANY gun reform anyone is asking for, yet no one even gives it any thought.
I think the easier solution would be to simply ban murder and crime. If we could make that illegal than we'd all be safe. /s
So now we're just supposed to give up anything and everything that kills innocent people even though we had nothing to do with it? Where do we turn in our cars, knives, and any pointy sticks we happen to come across?
Btw, for it to be a compromise, both sides have to give up something. I get that you want to restrict gun rights and I have no issue with you having that opinion. Just be honest about what you want to do and don't call it a compromise.
Okay, so should my gf that has anxiety not be allowed to have a gun? If not should I be allowed to have a gun in my apartment? The problem is we can say “mentally Ill people should not have guns” forever, but it’s so hard to classify mental illness. Should someone with anxiety? What about someone with bipolar that is medicated ??
My sister lives in Farmington and works in Aztec. She luckily doesn't have any kids but is very worried for her coworkers. Stay strong friend <3
Because things are so great in places line Baltimore and Chicago.
Gun owners have given up a LOT in the last 70 years:1934 National Firearms Act Registration of short barrels, automatic guns, suppressors 1968 Gun Control Act Can't sell guns across state lines. 1986 Hughes Amendment Closed the 1934 registry to machine guns. No more automatic weapons sold at all commercially. 1993 Brady Bill Mandatory waiting period to buy a gun. Mandatory background check. 1994 Assault Weapons Ban Banned cosmetic features which were easily circumvented. Expired in 2004.
When are we going to get any of this rolled back? Most of the laws listed above aren't really stopping any crime, so if they're ineffective can we just get rid of them?
Here's a few things gun owners want:National concealed carry so we can carry our guns for person protection while we travel to visit family, jobs, etc. National "buy/own any guns you want as long as you don't murder someone, including automatics, short barrel rifle/shotguns, etc." Gun suppressors removed from NFA registry so we can shoot quieter. Reduces noise pollution, helps protect hearing. Suppressors were only banned because people were using them to poach during the great depression to feed their families. Private access to background checks to validate private buyers aren't felons/dangerous. Faster appeals process so that anyone denied on background checks can get answers quickly and sort things out. Very often denials are clerical errors, but it takes lawyers and $10k+ and years of your life to get the FBI to talk to you and get things set straight. They're currently processing appeals from late 2015 last I heard.
I don't understand why this is sitting at the bottom of /sub/news.
I literally laid out 5 things that I thought should change. Maybe reading would help. What you say is ridiculous, that is why you’re getting downvoted.
I’ll lay it out again:Reciprocity CCP for every state. (HR 38). Expand NICS to private citizens. I don’t want to sell a gun to a criminal. Allowing NICS to be used by private citizens will curtail the fear. Educate. Educate people on what the difference between guns and their mods are. For instance an AR-15 is a semi auto rifle not an assault rifle. A barrel shroud does nothing mechanically for the fun, just protects the shooters hands. Reverse 1984 assault weapon ban. There has only been 1 person killed by a full auto gun (I think in the 30s or 40s?) ENFORCE OUR FUCKING LAWS. If we did that then the church shooting in Texas wouldn’t have happened.
Then explain to me why California wanted(maybe still does?) to ban them as a mod.
It probably has to do with bullying. Schools often don't take bullying seriously enough and parents believe that sending letters to the school is either enough to help or they tell their kids it is a normal part of life.
How do underage kids keep getting their hands on guns despite the epidemic of school shootings? That's the real question if you ask me. Either people aren't taking proper care of their firearms or more and more criminal dealers are approaching youths.
What other constitution rights do you want to limit. Should we do a background check before you can go on Twitter, or the internet?
Good luck with that.
Are you saying guns can't be used in self defense?
The right of self-Preservation
Watching American news make me feel so lucky that i live in Germany
interesting, I feel the exact opposite
Really? That's what you consider acting like a child?
Why not target the reasons why people decide to kill others?
30,000 gun deaths in the United states, of which 22,000 are suicides. Solution?Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of getting people help and expanding access to mental healthcare, enforce anti-bully laws, etc.
Of the remaining 10,000 gun deaths, roughly 10 - 20% are classified as "accidental". Solution?Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of expanding firearm safety education and bringing back school programs like "Eddie Eagle".
So now we're down to 8,000 gun deaths. It's accepted that 30 - 50% of total firearms homicides are related to gang/drug activity (~4,000).* Solution?Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of working on our society to prevent gang violence and stem the rampant violence due to drugs.
This leaves about 4,000 gun deaths that can be attributed to a variety of causes - domestic violence, justifiable homicide, etc. Solution?Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of enforcing/enhancing domestic violence laws. Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of allowing guns to be used for self-defense. Let's ban guns from all law-abiding citizens instead of expanding funding for law enforcement to enforce gun control we already have in place but never gets enforced.
See how ridiculous your statement sounds?
ok, say all guns were banned, 2A was removed and all states with similar amendment to their state bill of right some how remove them too. how would you gather the 300million guns?
You still need to say where the info came from if there is no other source posting it though. This is news coming to terrified parents who worry if their child is dead or alive, giving info like that is reckless without sources.
The police have confirmed the 3 and 14 here locally.
get mental help
Don’t tell me what to do. Gun mods include that you. So I will stand by my statement.
Hardly news anymore in the US
The perception that you Trump supporters have for Europe is laughably false.
Said the European who thinks the United States sits "somewhere between a developed western nation and Honduras." Holy hypocrisy.
Probably the stigma that comes with getting help for mental illnesses and all of the bullying that follows so kids bottle it up and never seek help and explode.
The only weapons that get sold in buy backs tend to be trash anyway. So they make firearms illegal to own and you've been stripped of a right that was specifically given to you. Do you really think that happens without entire states standing up for that right?
That seems a little stereotypical..
Don’t project your social justice fantasies onto me. Clearly I was referencing places with strict gun laws.
Wow. Maybe you are a Russian bc of how insane you sound. Going after gun mods now?? The scary scary barrel shroud is gonna change so much. Or maybe a muzzle break is make a massive difference. Ahhhh lets go after sights. No more ACOGs! Any rifle with a sight on it is a sniper rifle and should be illegal!!! You are crazy. Admit it you want to ban all guns bc you’re a gun grabber.
Any news on his girlfriend's sister?
Let's fix the NICS and open it up for anonymous use for/by private citizens. You do a check on yourself pay a fee and get a number others can look up and get a go or no go with a date the number is valid for.
If by "kill" you mean the freedom to kill a home-invader/mugger/murderer who might hurt me, my wife or two kids... you're goddamn right.
The news you see online doesnt reflect daily life at all. In reality we live in a pretty sweet ass place. The news is always super blown out of proportion. Just so you know
The reason that Sweden has so many "rape" incidents is due to its very wide legal definition of rape. Its also because in Sweden the vast majority of victims report the incidents (something that doesnt happen in US, which has a low report rate)
You cant find these info with just a quick wiki search
Well seeing as it was a kid he/she wasn't suppose to have a gun in the first place......... It was probably the parents gun and they didn't properly secure it. No law could've stopped this if that was the situation.
Only if you will forcibily take them from me. You personally. Good luck with that
You don't want a compromise, you want to ban and confiscate all guns.
Sorry no deal
Gun owners don't want to talk to me.
lol I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to hear you out but you pretty much said, "Well... actually, I don't know." Ah, okay. Well, if you feel like you're unable to have a productive conversation, perhaps the best step would be to do your research and come to the table with an interesting idea first?
"Hey guys, let's talk about creating a better economy!"
"Ok, what do you want to talk about?"
"Well, we should make it better! Let's talk about making it better."
"Well, yeah, everyone wants a better economy. But what laws would you suggest to make it better?"
"Fuck, I don't know. Listen to the experts."
Gun owners don't want to talk to the experts.
What does that mean? Do you even know what you're talking about? I don't think you do. Without fail, gun owners are by far the most informed people when these conversations come up. Gun owners are the ones who cite studies and share links that blow through the talking points, not the other way around.
I'm not trying to take all guns.. I'm willing to compromise.. I think maybe you guys should be too.
lol Oh we have.... plenty plenty of times, and it's always come back to bite us. (example: so-called "gun show loopholes"). There was even a time in recent years when Republicans suggested a universal background check system:
Universal background checks are something the Democrats have been screaming about FOR YEARS!! And Republicans gave them that. And the Democrats said "no" to the compromise, because they didn't get their white whale.
The list goes on, I can give you twenty more examples.
But again, you didn't make this statement knowing hardly any of the current laws in place, how they got there, and what the political climate has been. You just made a hasty assumption based on a minute understanding of the situation. Only you can be informed, I can't do that for you.
If you guys can't make personal sacrifices to better the country..
Again, this is an argument from ignorance. People who have to define the problem in such binary terms (yes gun control or no gun control) do so because they don't have the domain knowledge needed to have a nuanced conversation about it. That's why you have to fall back on bumper sticker logic, because you don't know what else to say.
Really man, it may seem like I'm being hard on you, but I'm your friend here. With all the sincerity of my heart, I want you to be informed on the issue, because you seem like nice guy/gal and because I know you're trying to do what you think is right.
Permitting that you're not sick of me yet, let me just give you one little tool that will help you have a better conversation with people on guns:
DON'T make it so binary that people have to pick sides. Asking, "Do you believe in gun control or not?" is a terrible way to frame that. Instead, ask something like, "What sort of gun control law can we agree on?". They might propose an idea, it would also be good and well for you to have a few ideas at the ready in case they ask you. And if they disagree with your idea, ask them why without demonizing them as people for it.
so police that search every single bit of private property in the USA? you really don't think that would trigger a civil war?
Only if you want a war to break out.
That’s what I’m saying. I’ve lived with her for multiple years and she has never once tried that. Most people that have mental illness won’t do that. Some do unfortunately. The thing with cars man is, they aren’t a constitutional right like guns are.
I have family in school here. My sister bounces between the middle and highschool for classes. Thank the gods she was at the middle school today. Brother's girlfriend was at the college instead, but her sister we can't find any info on.
Fuck you, legal gun owners are one of the most law abiding groups of people in the country. I and many other Americans would rather die than have our weapons confiscated.
SO.. i think maybe we should continue regulations.. and probably ramp them up.
Have you ever tried to purchase a gun legally in California? LA County? How should we ramp up regulations? Like what specifically?
About 60% of gun deaths in the US are suicide, so the number is already inflated to seem more problematic than it is. Are those people killing themselves because they have guns, or for other mental issues? Less than 1% of gun deaths are accidental. Of the remaining gun deaths, a large majority of the perpetrators are not using legal guns and not carrying legally.
We've got the worst problem with guns and gun deaths in the world
Well that's definitely not true. Brazil, where guns are restricted to people aged 25+ and pretty much only restricted to your house (no open or conceal carry unless you are law enforcement), their gun death rate is double that of the US. Have you looked at where gun deaths are most prevalent in the United States?
Just how much research about gun laws, gun safety and gun crime statistics have you done yourself? You mentioned that laws and regulations should be put into place, but are you really fully educated on what laws already exist?
What happens several times a week? Mass shootings? Because they only do when you include gang violence which makes up the vast majority and really has nothing to do with this.
I'm willing to compromise.. I think maybe you guys should be too.
Just so anti-gun people can turn around tomorrow and call it a loophole and demand that it be closed?
How do you think the whole "Gun show loop-hole" thing started?
Private sales were the compromise between the pro-gun side and the gun-control side.
The gun-control side got all firearm sales/transfer conducted through a licensed FFL dealer to require a background check, this is the majority of the firearm sales/transfers in the country.
The pro-gun side compromised on this so long as private sales/transfers did not have that mandatory background check requirement.
Now what do we hear everything gun-control comes up? Close the Gun show loophole, it's common sense! If you don't agree you're a gun nut and you are unwilling to compromise.
So why exactly should the pro-gun side continue to compromise? What are they getting? Where is the promise that the gun-control side won't just turn around and spit on that compromise and call it a loophole and start working towards closing it.
“Are we ready to talk about car control yet?” “Are we ready to talk about alcohol control yet?” “Are we ready to talk about cigarette control yet?”
I get it, you’re looking for a place to put the guilt, but it’s not that simple
Well that won't happen
A country with a fraction of the population, that shares no borders, and with a fraction of the guns. Oh, and they only got a fraction of the total guns in the country. If the US somehow has a national buy back just as successful as Australia's, there would still be literally hundreds of millions of guns on the streets.
Here's the Daily Times (local newspaper) story: http://www.daily-times.com/story/news/local/aztec/2017/12/07/school-shooting-aztec-high-school/93...
Should just do this with every Amendment.
"Can we talk about forcing people to quarter soldiers in their homes already? This is ridiculous. If we had soldiers in people's homes, they wouldn't act out like this"
First we should talk about parenting
So, are we ready to talk about gun control yet?
edit: too soon, thoughts and prayers, our hearts are with the victims, no one saw this coming, etc.