15000 scientist vs billions of idiots and trillions of $, who will win?
time is running out
as a species, we are pretty terrible at coming to terms with our mortality.
so it goes.
Oh cool the end of the world better not make any changes to my lifestyle and hope I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to rebuild humanity!
Let's say 15,000 scientists vs a handful of billionaires who don't believe in science or "facts" and will be dead long before anyone can say "Told you so"
Don't send the letter to humanity, send the letter to the jackass billionaires and oil companies who control the wealth and capital of this Earth. They don't care if the World is doomed to end as long as they get their money.
So when am I gonna die? Can I quit school, can I just lie down and wait to die?
Global warming is not going to wipe out life on earth. It may lead to circumstances in which we humans all kill each other, but after we are gone life will persist until the sun burns off our atmosphere and whatnot.
Life finds a way. Humans are not the sum total of life, we were only smart enough to get smart enough to kill ourselves.
Edit: I'm clear we're taking down a ton of other species too, it's not just us we're only smart enough to wipe out.
It's vague doomsday messages like this that make people doubt scientific predictions. "Within the decade, there will be no more snows of Kilimanjaro", said Al Gore over a decade ago, and guess what, Kilimanjaro still has a snowy top. Folks set back acceptance of climate science by decades by making similarly alarming claims that don't come true.
I'm just waiting for the OASIS to be up and running so I can just stay home till the end.
Finally adressing overpopulation as one of the main problems. I'm not sure how often I have read people defending the african/arabian population boom and stating how the earth can easily carry 20 billion humans..
Still not sure how destroying the world and consequently all known life in the universe isn’t seen as a problem by some people
Paraphrasing George Carlin: the planet is fine, it's humans who are fucked.
Reduce oil dependence, reduce deforestation, reduce carbon emissions, reduce waste, reduce water consumption, reduce population growth rates.
They don't say it because we all already know how to fix it. We just don't.
As an individual? Consider an electric car, put solar panels on your house, reduce water waste, recycle more, use a contraceptive.
As a group we need to realize things like a family of 4 doesn't need a 3000 square foot home and maybe it's time to to consider investing in bike paths. Taxes need to be diverted from oil subsidies to green energy.
Edit: How in the hell do so many climate change deniers exist? How is even a thing? When 99.7% of the people whos entire life is dedicated to the study of something tell you with confidence that something is a fact why in the hell would your response be "Bullshit, I know better than you because I looked it up and I know better than you."
When you take your car to 100 mechanics and 99 say your cylinder is misfiring you would probably have it repaired instead of listening to the one mechanic telling you that it's fine, just keep driving it.
People are being tricked into doing those things via highly advanced marketing techniques and social pressure, and not only that, but people are essentially being forced into living in circumstances that create a massive carbon footprint, because alternatives are not provided and there is no affordable land left to make it a reality without elite input. What are the poor masses going to do...farm enough food in their cramped closet apartments to survive on? No, of course not - they're dependent on the grocery stores, which are dependent on transport trucks and cargo vessels, which are dependent on arable land and oil brought out of the ground hundreds or thousands of miles away.
People want and need cheap energy because the alternatives were taken from them over a century ago. Subsistence farming was essentially made illegal in the first world when property tax became a thing. You can not survive without a job, and if you have a job, you either commute from a rural area (and pay property taxes) or live in a city where you are dependent on fossil-fuel transported food. There is no escaping this system.
And furthermore...our population numbers would have never gotten as ridiculous as they have without fossil fuel. Not even close. New York City is a shining example of unsustainability - how many gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel, how many acres of arable land, how many transport trucks and cargo vessels do you think are needed to support just the basic necessities of ten million people cramped into a few square miles? An absurd...absolutely absurd number.
The real issue is that there isn't a way to step down this insanity because nobody took care to make sure we grew in a sustainable way to begin with. We're drunk on oil and when cheap energy dries up it will be a systemic failure the likes of which the world has never before seen.
Edit: Thank you for the gold. It means more than you think!
should we tell them?
I mean... you can...
While I am glad that something like this is getting so much attention, I can't seem to find anything in the article that provides possible next steps. They outline the issues and what has happened and that's nice and all, but what can we as a community do differently that will make an actual impact?
I saw your other comment about future species not having easy access to burning fuels as we did...
but I have always assumed that just like we are burning up older species from our planet for fuel, one day the whole human species will be fossilized and used as fuel in the future. I think that is beautiful and the perfect ironic end for us.
Climate alarmism is the biggest hindrance to rational climate science and solutions. Mankind will develop the field of climate engineering over the next several decades, and it won't be the alarmists that contribute much towards it.
Seriously this. Pareto principle & the iron rule of oligarchy. We can't wag the dog. Even public awareness and social movements are under control of those who has power, they are making people stay uneducated.
If scientists think it is truly an emergency, then the change must be done top-down, not bottom-up.
I’ve been arguing against overpopulation deniers for a long time in this subreddit. The “It’s a consumption issue, not a population issue” arguments are the worst. Overconsumption is most definitely a huge problem and population size is the amplifier of that problem (population size is an amplifier for pretty much every problem).
You think people in poverty stricken countries don’t want to consume like people in Western countries? Of course they do. The reason they don’t is because they are in poverty.
The more we can restrict the brith rates worldwide and start decreasing world population sooner, the better chance we have at lifting everyone up to Western standards (note: this needs to be done with renewable energy and lab grown meat) without overshooting the Earth’s biocapacity like we are right now.
I stated that there were too many people on this planet in another sub, and I got people telling me to go kill myself. This planet cannot sustain infinite growth. But when you bring it up, they act like you are calling for a planet-wide genocide.
You can try...!
Alright, everyone needs to calm the hell down in this thread. Climate change is a daunting, discouraging, and very real problem, but running in circles screaming is never the answer. I want to provide a little bit of optimism among the doom and gloom here.
First, renewable energy is soaring. It's outpacing fossil fuels in many parts of the world and as prices keep dropping several countries such as China and India have cancelled their plans for new coal plants, instead opting for solar or wind. Just five years ago in 2012, the U.S. Energy Information Agency (EIA) released a projection.pdf) stating that the United States would reach 15% renewable energy by 2035 and 19-20% by 2057. We hit 19% this year. That's forty years ahead of schedule.
Electric cars are experiencing a similar boom. They've seriously outpaced most projections and it's only going to get better with cheap mass-market cars like Tesla's Model 3 and Nissan's new Leaf. China is also crushing it with their commuter vehicles.
Finally, there's still time to keep warming below 1.5-2 degrees Celsius. Recent projections show that this could be achievable with the world hitting 100% renewable energy between 2050 and 2100- and with the aforementioned price of renewables dropping like a rock, many countries, cities, and states are bound to hit that goal long before then.
I'm not unfamiliar with the alarming facts of climate change, but if there's one thing I put my faith in it's the capacity of the world to change quickly. Don't believe me? is what a cell phone looked like ten years ago. Ten years really isn't much time at all, and if there's anything I've learned from reading projections for the future it's that they keep failing to address exponential growth. Renewable energy isn't going to grow from 19% to 20% to 21%. It's going to grow from 19% to 32% to 67%, and so on.
So chin up, everyone. We've got a planet to save.
EDIT: first reddit gold!
Whenever I read things like this, I can’t help but think what people are really saying is “we are making the word uninhabitable for human life.” That’s far different than saying the earth is at risk or dying.
Excellent I'm going to sleep..
Some dead presidents on a piece of paper
A few green bois
When is the crappy movie due out?
What if we changed it from save the planet to save the humans?
I can barely pay my rent half the time, what exactly do they want me to do?
March 30th 2018. I'm interested based off the trailer but I started reading the book about a day and I'm so glad I decided to read it.
Yes, overpopulation deniers.
The rate of global population growth has been slowing DRASTICALLY for a long time now and it continues to slow.
It's nowhere near fast enough for world population to start declining any time soon. That's a big problem as we are already overshooting the Earth's biocapacity. We are at 7.6 billion right now and the UN is now projecting we will be at 9.8 billion by 2050 and 11.2 billion by 2100. So, even with falling birth rates, we're looking at potentially adding billions and billions more people to an already stressed environment.
Looking at the big picture is important and for some reason no one ever wants to do that.....
Ironic you say that as you make no mention of the DRASTIC population explosion that continues to happen at the same time as birth rates fall.
Well, that was also quite heavily a climate and location-based thing. I think there have been studies about it that found that we probably wouldn't end up as oil.
Every time I read something like this I think;
I’m a normal citizen. I’m not a politician who makes decisions or a famous billionaire who can influence more than the few people I know. I’m doing my part. I recycle, I’m vegan, I don’t buy anything I don’t need and don’t waste anything. What do these articles want us to do? Write our corrupt senators to please save the world rather than make their friends rich to fund their re-election? I want to do something and I want to save the world but it’s the good people of the world vs the rich people of the world. And 99% of the rich would blow up the world 10 times over to stay rich.
WTF I actually have to make my own beds and pipe pistols?? Can't I just click on the workbench and dump a pile of wood into it?
Appreciate the Vonnegut!
Who would win?
The impending doom of global warming
Some dead presidents on a piece of paper
We just need to take bikini bottom and move it somewhere else!
Unfortunately this isn't true, it is theoretically possible for humans to set earth on a course whose end result is a barren world like Mars or, well, anywhere else we know of.
WILL BENEFIT FUTURE GENERATIONS OF /sub/totallynotrobots SPECIES
They do believe in science and facts, they just don't care because it doesn't affect them personally. They'll all be dead before any of it comes to fruition so all that matters now is accumulating more and more wealth.
Better sex education, abortion access and birth control access globally. Male birth control such as Vasagel need to get on the market yesterday.
Acceptance of people who choose to not have children, even to the point of normalizing it so that it is seen worldwide as a valid lifestyle choice.
The article states 30 days. I think that's optimistic tho
Everyone is always quick to blame the "billionaries" or the oil companies or the big corporations but no one wants to look at themselves. I cringe when I read about people saying they have 4,5, even 6 kids. And how everyone congratulates them. It's insane.
All of our problems could be easily resolved or at least minimized if we had fewer people. I don't get why people don't see that.
Nah, kill all humans!
The rate of global population growth has been slowing DRASTICALLY for a long time now and it continues to slow.
Looking at the big picture is important and for some reason no one ever wants to do that.....
Not a warning, a forecast of what is to come. Make your preparations now, because the wealthy aren't going to protect us when this happens, and they aren't going to stop it.
The biological urge to reproduce is too strong to make a dent even in most rational minded folks.
At worst, they believe their kid will be the one to invent FTL that will save us, or some shit.
that sounds illegal to me, not to mention extremely hard to implement
Yeah, better keep on sending letters then. That'll do it. Thats how we are going to save our species, legally and conveniently, we've been at it since a while now, works well enough.
This is about as perfect an answer as someone who hasn't familiarized themselves with the subject can make. I applaud you.
He's joking. This is shit that won't begin to significantly impact human life for a good while (decades) and this is a warning far ahead of the point of no return. The population will not rise another 35% nor will we be losing 300 million more acres of forest in the next 30 days, you'll be fine.
Ya, but the coal miners...
Know what though?
Those scientists probably drank coffee shipped from thousands of miles away in order to get their papers written on time. They drove to their labs using diesel/gas-powered cars because academia doesn't pay that much these days and not everyone can afford a Tesla (which are equally dubious when it comes to their own carbon impact i.e - 37 gallons of oil in every tire).
They probably burned jet fuel flying themselves to conferences they could have just as easily Skyped into, but chose to go in person for that true "networking" experience. They ate dry praline cookies wrapped in plastic on the plane and thoughtfully put the wrapper into their pocket, only to have it fall out later, wash into the water supply, and kill an entire generation of endangered baby ducks along the way.
My point is as much as we all want to do better (or at least those who recognize the threat and understand the smaller things that can be done on a personal/local basis to mitigate it), pobody's nerfect.
No one person is responsible for this mess and no one organization is going to be responsible for cleaning it up. I wish for a world where every hotel maid making $21k a year has the ability to afford the same responsibly grown, carbon-neutral coffee as a climate scientist who makes $60k. Right now that's not the world we live in for a huge, huge number of reasons that only get more granular once you change countries, states, provinces, or even cities depending on the local municipal code.
If there were one answer to all of those issues we probably would have figured it out already, but the whole process is iterative and all we can hope for now is that we figure it out sooner rather than later.
My bet is on ITER. If we nail fusion in 2020, I've still got hope for the next hundred years at minimum.
Bullshit. Yes, it's true that individual actions don't mean much if collective action isn't taken. But nobody's tricking people into driving SUVs, scarfing down tons of red meat, and living in mini-palaces in the suburbs. Global demand for oil isn't some massive conspiracy, people just want cheap energy and don't care about the consequences.
If things were as simple as some small elite pulling the strings, then this would be an easy problem to solve. But it ain't that simple.
We actually already entered a "global trophic cascade" two decades back - the first symptom was the sudden extinction of amphibians, the "ecological canaries" that rely on clean water. The way to think of it is all ecosystems are in an unstable equilibrium - they are like a boulder on top of a hill. The boulder won't budge on its own, but if you give it enough push it comes tumbling down, smashing everything along the way. This is exactly what we are seeing now - ecosystems are losing key species and everything else starts to die off with their loss. Look at the bat die-off - white nose disease has decimated one of the most vital insect population controls in nature, and without bats to predate them a veritable swarm of pest insects are decimating America's forests. Right now the world ecology is simply in freefall - it is only invisible because no one notices when a spider or a bee species dies off, but these extinctions all have consequences and will compromise our planet's life support system. Humans as biological entities are going to have a tough time feeding ourselves in 50 years after pollinators become too rare to rely upon and soil exhaustion wipes out ranchland. This quote rings true more now than ever: "Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money." ~Cree Proverb
He probably thought manbearpig would take it all, not global warming
To be fair, Gore's prediction was actually quite specific. Just wrong, though.
I started reading the book about a day and I'm so glad I decided to read it.
Now you'll probably hate the movie when it comes out.
Don't have kids I guess. You would just be bringing them into a shitty world.
Please tell me you’re joking.
Cause I’m already unstable and this shits gonna be how I break.
This is my exact feeling. Why do we consistently talk about doomsday futures (that likely will never happen) instead of just pointing to concrete examples of shit we do each and every day to fuck up the earth and everything that lives on it (including ourselves). When shit affects us directly in a way we can observe it gets corrected really god damn fast. They need to stop talking about concepts like global warming which now is just a joke cause every weather occurence is attributed to it at this point. Shit like the condition of our air, mercury in our fish, arsenic in our water. Or even more general things you can put a face on like dumping shit into our ocean or cutting down large sections of rain forest. How fast did people start buying electric cars 5 years ago when gas prices were skyrocketing. There is zero way this is gonna be resolved if people keep on taking about utter catastrophe in the distant future, people just tune that shit out. First fix the plethora of little things we can control and hopefully that will start to add up to fixing the grand picture.
My main issue with claims like "Mass Extinction Event" are that we only have human collected data from the last 150-200 years. And maybe only the data from the last 60 years is reliable. Because any study, no matter how secular and rigorous, will have bias.
Then there's the data from rock formations and similar "time capsules." Yet these form only in specific areas that are varied and don't apply to the entire planet. The quality of these is taken way too seriously, and their reliability is impossible to rank unless Humans continue to exist for thousands or millions of years.
I know many will disagree, but I honestly think we're like ants in the dirt. Sure we'll have our little mound, but a flood can easily wipe us away.
edit: As is tradition, getting downvoted because I have a differing opinion.
What's the point of sending a letter to billionaires? They've been ignoring it for the last 30 years. It's a call to a revolution.
The fact that billionaires hold power shows capitalism is broken and incompatible with sustainable life on earth where people would have roughly some form of control over their lives.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
However, only blood can defeat money.
You should watch Cowspiracy
Maybe in a few thousand years the humans on mars will try to colinze earth again
And, you know, probably all other mammals as well, and countless other complex forms of life.
People of reddit have no fear, the planet will not be destroyed. It will only be uninhabitable to humans. And over time it will heal itself, but we will be long gone
Edit: if it helps, this process will happen over time. So the planet will just be able to produce for less and less people. The strong survive
They believe it, it just won't affect them.
Absolutely right. Stop fucking you goddamned breeders
They don't care if the World is doomed to end as long as they get their money.
So take it away until they take action
Hey, look at that, I'm doing something right without even trying.
This. They absolutely believe it. They just don't care, and will not let it affect the profit line.
Yeah, the planet will be fine once it equalises and reaches a new equilibrium. Just that that equilibrium has no room for humans.
The next species can probably just jump straight from wood and wind to wind, water, and photovoltaics.
Then we need to hurry up n get to Mars so we can uncover the remains of civilization that destroyed themselves there. (obvious /s...unless it's true then... poop....) Boy wouldn't that be sad as shit if intelligent life isn't everywhere cuz everytime it comes up it destroys it's planet in about 100,000k years? The first race to actually become a galaxy spanning civilization is in for a few billion years of incredibly depressing discoveries.
I sincerely do not mean this as an insult, but it seems like your main issue is actually not knowing much about those topics.
So if you're rich, which is the smarter option:
Give up wealth to others for a small chance to slow this?
Gather more wealth faster so you can have a financial advantage to be the most likely to survive?
If the world ended started spiraling to an end (ffs pedants) tomorrow, Zuckerberg would outlive you. I don't care if you have a shelter, I don't care if you have guns, he would have the advantage as things gradually went to shit. He would have access to the last resources, you would be in desperate survival mode before he ever missed a meal.
But doesn't the alarmism have to do with a runaway effect / poitive feedback loop? It's hard to predict the catalytic moment. Like there's a city sized boulder perched on a cliff over a city. What holds it in place is getting weaker and weaker. We're still debating whether to stop making that weaker, you're proposing rebuilding the thing that holds it, while really we should also be planning how to deal with things once it's rolling.
Tardigrades will prevail
the end of the world
The world will be fine no matter what we do to it.
Our actions decide if the world will have humans on it or not.
Fusion is the only thing we should be talking about. You’re not going to “stop global warming” by biking to work once a month and instagramming it
i can't die within 30days if i'm dead inside already
I'm a childfree person who doesn't leave the house much, is too poor to buy a lot of waste, and doesn't use much paper. Aside from water consumption, I'm doing pretty well!
yeah but enormous corporations shipping shit from thousands of miles away are more accountable for climate change than a single person is one their own and - we need regulations
This answer is a bit of a cop-out used by some to de-legitimize or otherwise discredit the scientists, or at the least, create just enough confusion or doubt to undermine their efforts.
Yes, these scientists live on this planet and probably function as normal humans who need to go from one place to another, drink coffee and eat food and breathe air using whatever means are at their disposal.
Steps needed to reduce the impact we're having are pretty clearly laid out...... Reduce carbon emissions by investing in cleaner technologies, conservation, etc... We (collectively) can do this, although honestly, I think the ship has sailed on our ability to passively stop the catastrophic environmental impact of the past 150 years. Hell, even if we reduce our emissions tomorrow to zero, we've already done so much damage things will continue to get worse for decades before they start to get better. I think it's time to seriously start investing in carbon-capture technologies that actively remove carbon from the atmosphere. That's probably the only way to avoid a complete environmental shit show over the next 50 years.
And yet this is still happening. It's almost like individuals can't do much, and it's corporations that have to stop trashing the earth with no consequence.
Make climate change mitigation an important issue when you vote, also the issue of campaign finance reform would help(assuming US). Cut down on meat consumption. Try to eat and buy locally as much as possible. Analyze everything you purchase and determine if its actually important to your survival or if its just consumerist junk. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Try and cut down your carbon footprint to as small as you can. Trying to move towards zero waste is pretty fun.
Voting is probably most important. It can be overwhelming to start all at once, trying to make one small change per week is a good way to start trying to live a more aware life.
That would have worked. To bad people focused on the earth part, because humans are intensely self centered.
You are absolutely right. Pair this with the crippling student loan debt that in away enslaves people to the cities and suburbs - because that's where the jobs are. I would LOVE to go live on a farm somewhere and live off the land, but I grew up in a society that told me that college is the way to success, so I have to make sure I have a job that allows me to pay back these loans. Ugh.
Eliminate all tax deductions for children, and possibly institute a significant tax penalty for more than x children. Those would pribably have an immediate effect... probably not enough, but a start.
Thank god I was about to be out my bedroom window.
It would be more likely that we turn the planet into Venus then Mars.
I'm sure the Earth will trim that number one way or another.
Welcome to End stage capitalism.
It's already rolling. It's just rolling excruciatingly slowly. Some people say that the boulder is rolling so slow that we'll be able to build a wall by the time it gets to us. Some people say that we as a society should stop what we're doing, run over to the boulder, and hold it in place manually.
Sure, collectively destroying the economy would stop the boulder, but for a lot of people the risk is small enough that building a wall is the better option.
and by the way, if there's a settlement that needs help, just go and mark it on their map.
LONG LIVE THE TARDIGRADE
No, just find a childless parent and make them build everything for you.